Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Re: is there such a thing as OVER FRUGAL
Old 08-26-2005, 06:04 AM   #21
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,352
Re: is there such a thing as OVER FRUGAL

Lived in Europe and loved the small home but huge public square lifestyle. Shopped everyday for today's meals at local markets. None of the American style two buggies full of groceries shopping. Like some posted above, just can't understand how we eschewed the public square.

Here is Chicago, it seems that some planner decided: "Make sure there is not one place to sit unless you are a paying customer!!!!!!!!!!" Honestly, there is no place to sit within the 6 sq. miles of downtown.

Paris and Rome look like they were layed out with sitting outside in mind. London, on the other hand, tends to keep you moving or standing. I think we went with the English model.
__________________

__________________
OldAgePensioner is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Re: is there such a thing as OVER FRUGAL
Old 08-26-2005, 06:19 AM   #22
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,352
Re: is there such a thing as OVER FRUGAL

Now on the Over Frugal theme, I'm trying to test the limits.

1. I go to WholeFoods store and eat lunch on them. They have samples of cheeses, salsa, chips, crackers, breads, dips, coffees, etc. Eat free lunch.
2. Save paper bags and use as trash bags, re-use ziplock bags, re-use all plastic containers and use them as you would Tupperware.
3. In Chicago there are dozens of young people on street corners handing out samples, mouthwash, deoderant, candy bars, chewing gum, toothpaste, etc. I have nearly a years supply of each.
4. Public transport for free. The CTA cards are good for 2 hours and most people are going one-way for 20 minutes. Just ask and someone will give you their card at the exit. Good fun too.

Example:
Today about 7-8 young ladies were handing out McDonalds flyers for a $1 Double-Cheeseburger. And I ended up with 20-25 of them. So if I wanted, that's lunch for the month at only 25 dollars.
__________________

__________________
OldAgePensioner is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: is there such a thing as OVER FRUGAL
Old 08-26-2005, 07:53 AM   #23
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Eagle43's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: DFW
Posts: 1,883
Re: is there such a thing as OVER FRUGAL

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldAgePensioner
Lived in Europe and loved the small home but huge public square lifestyle. Shopped everyday for today's meals at local markets. None of the American style two buggies full of groceries shopping. Like some posted above, just can't understand how we eschewed the public square.

Here is Chicago, it seems that some planner decided: "Make sure there is not one place to sit unless you are a paying customer!!!!!!!!!!" Honestly, there is no place to sit within the 6 sq. miles of downtown.

Paris and Rome look like they were layed out with sitting outside in mind. London, on the other hand, tends to keep you moving or standing. I think we went with the English model.
Love that European lifestyle; it tends to encourage community. Here in Texas, I go outside in the summer and can see no one, unless they're mowing. Why? It's too hot. Well, in the other seasons, it's the same. They're inside, watching tv or on the computer. Now, they do go to the mall. Maybe that's our "square". Sure is cooler in the mall.

__________________
Resist much. Obey Little. . . . Ed Abbey

Disclaimer: My Posts are for my amusement only.
Eagle43 is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: is there such a thing as OVER FRUGAL
Old 08-26-2005, 08:24 AM   #24
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,056
Re: is there such a thing as OVER FRUGAL

About the worst thing I did when it comes to being over-frugal was when the windshield wipers died on one of my older cars, a '79 Chrysler, back in December. Here it is, 8-9 months later, and I still haven't gotten them fixed! I just put Rain-X on the windshield!

I don't drive it that much though, and usually only in nice weather, so the windshield wipers aren't THAT critical!

Whenever I go to Costco, I always hit the free samples! And I save plastic bags, too!
__________________
Andre1969 is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: is there such a thing as OVER FRUGAL
Old 08-26-2005, 08:34 AM   #25
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,505
Re: is there such a thing as OVER FRUGAL

Quote:
Wrong... when I was there I had heard of 7 people sharing a one bedroom apartment.... to me that is frugal...
Wrong...., that's just ignorant.

I'm sorry, but I insist on thinking of being called "frugal" as a compliment. Insisting on living in NYC and, as a result of doing so having to share a one-bedroom apt with 7 people, isn't a decision worthy of compliment if you ask me. So i might call said person several things; but frugal isnt going to be one of them.
__________________
azanon is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: is there such a thing as OVER FRUGAL
Old 08-26-2005, 09:38 AM   #26
 
Posts: n/a
Re: is there such a thing as OVER FRUGAL

Quote:
Originally Posted by retire@40
I've often wondered why we in the USA didn't set up the same kind of squares as the Europeans.* The people who emigrated from Europe were pretty much the people who designed this country.* The only thing I can think of is that the Europeans that came to this country were the ones that came to work and improve their lives, so they were more concerned with a work environment rather than a leisure-type environment.
is it me or what but i think in US, we don't have a strong sense of community and bonding. i used to live in an apartment complex. you can live there for years with OUT knowing anything about your neighbors, except to Hi and Bye. then we moved into a town house, almost the samething. everyone got their own friends from somewhere else once or twice every two months they got a gathering. then quiet again for a long time. May be noone want to socializing with us but i do believe they don;t socializing with each other either.

then we moved into a single house, even worse people are far apart, i only get see them when they cut the grass. Everyone mind the own "business". very very isolating. When i chat with my collegues at work. they are all bragging about how far AWAY their neighbor are. some guy even said "oh yeah, i got NO tricker treater in Holloween, Yup, 20 acre of land and 1 mile to see the next house. i am proud of it". What a strange world, the richer you are the less people you want to be around....


__________________
  Reply With Quote
Re: is there such a thing as OVER FRUGAL
Old 08-26-2005, 10:27 AM   #27
 
Posts: n/a
Re: is there such a thing as OVER FRUGAL

Quote:
Good fun too.
Yes, that's how I see it, too.* As long as I'm enjoying it, I don't have to worry whether I'm being overly frugal.
__________________
  Reply With Quote
Re: is there such a thing as OVER FRUGAL
Old 08-26-2005, 10:31 AM   #28
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
SteveR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,803
Re: is there such a thing as OVER FRUGAL

I also think a lot of it has to do with how the city grew over time. *In Europe, almost all of the cities began as small villages and the center of all villiage life was the market and wells. *Also, many cities were also walled off from the surrounding conutry side for defence. *Over the centuries the walls were covered in buildings or removed and the city grew around it. *This "market square" or city center concept eventually became a de facto standard for cities. *This coupled with old narrow streets, lack of parking for cars and the fact that the cities grew slowly over time without having to be designed for transportation also contributed to the more close-knit nature of these cities.

In contrast, most cities in the US and other newer countries, were either planned from the begining like Washington DC or sprang up very quickly with a strong emphasis on transportation of goods and services into and out of the city. *Smaller towns began as isolated settlements or forts and continued to grow rapidly as the population increased. *The widespred use of the horse and then the car required extra space to allow better utilization of these transportation devices. *Cities required roads, railroads and eventually highways to provide better transportation capibility and movement of people from one part of the country to the other i.e., Gold Rush. *But, many smaller older towns maintained the town square concept and still do today. *This was lost as cities grew in size and the town square became the financial district. *

The decay of the inner cities caused many people who used to enjoy living in the inner city to depart for the suburbs and the creation of bedroom communities where, as was said before, the Mall replaced the market square.

Many US cities are trying to recreate this market square concept and with great success. *Many are now flocking back to the inner cities to live in apts. and condos newly created to meet these needs. *

Sorry about the PhD dissertation here. I guess this just hit a hot button with me today. *

__________________
Work? I don't have time to work....I'm retired.
SteveR is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: is there such a thing as OVER FRUGAL
Old 08-26-2005, 10:44 AM   #29
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Spanky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 4,046
Re: is there such a thing as OVER FRUGAL

Quote:
..i think in US, we don't have a strong sense of community and bonding.
I tend to agree since privacy and individualism are highly valued or sought after. People in the U.S. like to live in houses with fences and far away from their neighbors if possible. At work, people want to have private offices. Promotion is always based on individual merit while crying out for teamwork. In Hong Kong where I grew up, you had plenty of opportunities to chat with your neighbors and coworkers because of room sharing and open office space.
__________________
May we live in peace and harmony and be free from all human sufferings.
Spanky is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: is there such a thing as OVER FRUGAL
Old 08-26-2005, 10:47 AM   #30
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,005
Re: is there such a thing as OVER FRUGAL

The recent trend in shopping malls is to have an open air pedestrian mall integrated into their design. In the last 5 years we have had two major shopping malls opened in the Raleigh-Durham NC area that have this pedestrian mall that is open air and simulates the town square that we're talking about. It seems things have come full circle.

__________________
justin is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: is there such a thing as OVER FRUGAL
Old 08-26-2005, 10:49 AM   #31
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 188
Re: is there such a thing as OVER FRUGAL

SteveR's dissertation is "right on."

There is a "new urbanism" in America now, though, that encourages the building of smaller (albeit still too big and decidedly unfrugal) homes close together, with front porches facing common parks.

My wife and I live in one of those communities -- 38 nice homes facing a common seven-acre park with lots of benches, a fountain, picnic area, etc. *It's not quite European, but people get out and walk, visit with one another, and enjoy being out-of-doors (even in the Southern summer heat of Memphis).

The other night my wife and I walked "the circle" (the one-quarter mile loop) around the park. *We chatted with one set of neighbors about watering our plants while we go to Texas for Labor Day, another set of neighbors about taking care of their cat while they go to Alabama for a few days, another group about the beautiful children they were pushing in carriages. *It *really was like a European piazza experience.

Most Americans opt away from "new urbanism," but I think it's great ... (just wish I wanted to retire in Memphis, which I do not). *Our European forefathers (and early American settlers who always had a courthouse square or the functional equivalent) knew what they were doing however that growth pattern evolved.

__________________
playaman is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: is there such a thing as OVER FRUGAL
Old 08-26-2005, 11:57 AM   #32
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 287
Re: is there such a thing as OVER FRUGAL

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldAgePensioner
Here is Chicago, it seems that some planner decided: "Make sure there is not one place to sit unless you are a paying customer!!!!!!!!!!" Honestly, there is no place to sit within the 6 sq. miles of downtown.
Bank One-JPM plaza / City Hall / Daley Center / 333 S Wacker / DePaul Center

I could probably come up with more if I sat and thought for a while.
__________________
moghopper is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: is there such a thing as OVER FRUGAL
Old 08-26-2005, 02:32 PM   #33
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
haha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Hooverville
Posts: 22,387
Re: is there such a thing as OVER FRUGAL

There are places in America with lots of out-door or semi-outdoor public space. I have lived in some; I always love it.

Sunset Strip from West Hollywood almost to Westwood Village. Broadway on Capitol Hill in Seattle. Venice Beach from Washington Blvd all the way north to the Santa Monica Pier. Parts of downtown Berkeley.

Overall, America was much more livable when I was a young man than it appears to be now. For one thing, many of the urban areas that offered that sort of life are so crime ridden that one has to do a sanity check when thinking about going there.

America has nice spaces, just mostly not public. Maybe semi-public, as in a hotel lobby or bar or an attractive mall. These spaces are somewhat easier for security to control.

I think the same goes for public transport. More people would ride if they felt safe. If more people rode, the schedules would improve. Then even more people would ride.

But most don't feel safe, so you only ride if you are desperate or poor or desperate and poor.

Pretty crappy overall.

As a sidebar, remember that our ER member and author Billy the Traveler once was chef at the Maisonette in Cincinnati? I think it was continuously given a Mobil 5 * rank for more than* 40 years. Well, it recently closed. People no longer felt safe coming downtown for a late dinner. There may have been other factors too, but deterioration of the public space due to crime played a large part.

Haha
__________________
"As a general rule, the more dangerous or inappropriate a conversation, the more interesting it is."-Scott Adams
haha is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: is there such a thing as OVER FRUGAL
Old 08-26-2005, 02:36 PM   #34
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,352
Re: is there such a thing as OVER FRUGAL

moghopper,
I call all those spots future construction sites. *And I walked past most of those today. *Tell me where a person could sit down in Daley Center. *On the Picasso? *

Only the Water Tower Park has seats. *Deliberately made uncomfortable to discourage homeless.
__________________
OldAgePensioner is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: is there such a thing as OVER FRUGAL
Old 08-26-2005, 02:50 PM   #35
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,352
Re: is there such a thing as OVER FRUGAL

HaHa,
When I went to school ,Westwood was a great place. I would not venture into Westwood after dark these days. Gangs have taken over the place.

Washington Blvd or Venice Beach Blvd up to Santa Monica is wacko. I take people from the East coast there to get a laugh at the loonies. Last time I visted Santa Monica pier we left after 10 minutes. Fruits and nuts.

Though we can't change it now, it would have been nice to allocate city squares where people actually went to sit, have a glass of wine, enjoy the night air. If you visit Rome or Paris, go to the squares at evening and see what life could be.


__________________
OldAgePensioner is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: is there such a thing as OVER FRUGAL
Old 08-26-2005, 03:47 PM   #36
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 178
Re: is there such a thing as OVER FRUGAL

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldAgePensioner
Tell me where a person could sit down in Daley Center. On the Picasso?
You wouldn't be the first.

While you're in the loop, go to the Berghoff's bar and have a Weißbier for me, will ya?
__________________
I'd rather be sailing.
nfs is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: is there such a thing as OVER FRUGAL
Old 08-26-2005, 04:16 PM   #37
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 2,083
Re: is there such a thing as OVER FRUGAL

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldAgePensioner
Today about 7-8 young ladies were handing out McDonalds flyers for a $1 Double-Cheeseburger. And I ended up with 20-25 of them. So if I wanted, that's lunch for the month at only 25 dollars.
Yeh but how much will all that cholesterol cost you?
__________________
I look to the present moment because that's where I live my life.
MJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: is there such a thing as OVER FRUGAL
Old 08-26-2005, 05:32 PM   #38
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,352
Re: is there such a thing as OVER FRUGAL

nfs,
I normally just end up " sitting on a park bench, eyeing little ..., watching as the pretty ...... run"
OK, since I'm addicted to wheat beer, so I will go to Berghoffs and drink one.* But this is next to the last 199,000 times I do that.* * Drinking my beer, hearing the train. Casey Jones you better watch your speed.... if you live in Chi you gotsta be noticin today is bleak.

MJ,
I went to the local party store and bought a Ronald McDonald costume and I plan to sell those free puppies out on the street.* "money for nuthin and chicks for free".* Maybe I'll sell them outside of Berghoff's.* Cool. Drinkin beer, sellin burgers.
__________________
OldAgePensioner is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: is there such a thing as OVER FRUGAL
Old 08-26-2005, 05:44 PM   #39
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
maddythebeagle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,450
Re: is there such a thing as OVER FRUGAL

Quote:
Yeh but how much will all that cholesterol cost you?
25 bucks in burgers and 100 bucks in lipitor...
__________________
- Hurry! to the cliffs of insanity!
maddythebeagle is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: is there such a thing as OVER FRUGAL
Old 08-26-2005, 05:53 PM   #40
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,352
Re: is there such a thing as OVER FRUGAL

maddy,
lipitor is an afrodeeseac as I recall. Worth $100 and I get a burger as a bonus.

Let's see, sex, burger and fries, could I get that super-sized? Wooohoooo,.l

I'm out early tomorrow lookin for the burger mamas.

Lake and Clark. Madison and Dearborn. Wacker and State. Roosevelt and LaSalle. Where are those burger totin wenches?


__________________

__________________
OldAgePensioner is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
need advice on trust thing tikitoast FIRE and Money 18 06-20-2006 09:30 AM
How frugal is too frugal? setab FIRE and Money 36 05-18-2006 01:51 PM
My first book report: Just One (more) Thing greg FIRE and Money 3 11-17-2005 07:13 PM
Frugal Genetics? Berkshire_Bull Young Dreamers 15 04-14-2005 12:54 PM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:09 PM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.