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Old 11-29-2010, 10:24 PM   #81
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Well, I grew up in south Georgia without air conditioning. ..

Just as I thought...........
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Old 11-29-2010, 10:35 PM   #82
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You, sir, on the other hand seem skeptical that people can have a good life living in an RV for $20K.
That's correct, and I'm proud of it! Although we sure do like to camp, fish and kayak.
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Old 11-29-2010, 10:52 PM   #83
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I am still waiting for the info so I can go to Realtor.com and find a 1500 sq ft townhouse "in one of the most affluent areas of the country" in the "low $100k range."

Please, give an end to my suspense.
Ha..... I don't know specifically what area plex was refering to, but here's some data on the wealthiest zip codes. You could look at the top 10 or so (certainly "one of the most affluent areas of the country" would be in the top 10) and check town home prices.......

100 wealthiest cities (according to zip code) in the United States

My son lives in a town that's about one third of the way down the list. I can tell you that there are no 1500 sq ft town homes priced near $100k there. At least not any that don't have some "issue."
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Old 11-29-2010, 11:16 PM   #84
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In my case, if I really like to RV that much, and if I can talk my wife to join me -
And... If the ocean were whisky, and I were a duck, I'd swim to the bottom and never come up...
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Old 11-30-2010, 12:07 AM   #85
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Just as I thought...........
What does this mean?

I grew up in Georgia, went to Georgia Institute of Technology for a BSEE then obtained a masters degree from MIT. I now work on the west coast, but still miss south Georgia.

Oh, were you implying I was a typical redneck hick?
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Old 11-30-2010, 12:19 AM   #86
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No... no... don't be silly. What is a "typical redneck hick" anyhow? Why would you say something like that? Sheesh.......

I was refering to your proton count.
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Old 11-30-2010, 12:30 AM   #87
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No... no... don't be silly. What is a "typical redneck hick" anyhow? why would you say something like that?

I was refering to your proton count.

And maybe a little due to the fact that you're advising a person they can live on $20k pre-tax in the NE even though you're someone who wouldn't consider doing it.
Oh, ok. I get defensive of Georgia even though I have lived in the NW now for over 17 years . I thought you were relating the lack of air conditioning in my youth to a typical poor southerner background.

What does the proton count have to do with air conditioning

gold has 79 protons in its nucleus. I like prospecting as a hobby here out west (although north Georgia had a history of some gold production, I never panned there).
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Old 11-30-2010, 02:27 AM   #88
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I was only away for half a day , here are your links.

"...consistently ranks as one of the top five wealthiest cities in the United States with population between 2,500 to 9,999 — it currently is listed at the number four position and in 1990 it was ranked number two."

Bloomfield Hills, Michigan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Townhouse listing on zillow (sorry its 1,050 sqft for this one, but its below 100k), when the bottom hit during the housing crisis a couple years, I believe a couple were scooped up for below 50k. 99k seems to be on the high end for an asking price among the townhouses:

746 E Fox Hills Dr, Bloomfield Hills, MI 48304 MLS# 28153919 - Zillow

Point made. And no, this isn't a community like Miami where there are walled off communities of wealthy surrounded by extremely poor areas, the median income is in the the high 100k range. With some research, I would not have any trouble finding similar locations, though i do agree you need to check them in person to be certain.

There would also be no state taxes on income past age 65. Energy subsidy (or any kind of subsidy other than for healthcare in 2014) would be impossible in just about any state on 20k/year, the cutoff is near the poverty line for any assistance at all.
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Old 11-30-2010, 04:51 AM   #89
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Hello Fuego - quick question if I may. How is it possible to pull $45-50k per year from one's portfolio "fairly easily" without exceeding $33000 AGI ? Thank you for letting us know.

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I'll be able to pull $45-50k a year from the portfolio fairly easily without exceeding $33000 AGI, hence get free or very cheap health insurance.
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Old 11-30-2010, 09:38 AM   #90
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Hello Fuego - quick question if I may. How is it possible to pull $45-50k per year from one's portfolio "fairly easily" without exceeding $33000 AGI ? Thank you for letting us know.
Pull from Roth

Sell underperforming stocks to realize capital loss to offset any gains

Invest in municipal bonds

Probably plenty of other ways.
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Old 11-30-2010, 09:56 AM   #91
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Hello Fuego - quick question if I may. How is it possible to pull $45-50k per year from one's portfolio "fairly easily" without exceeding $33000 AGI ? Thank you for letting us know.
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Originally Posted by 79protons View Post
Pull from Roth

Sell underperforming stocks to realize capital loss to offset any gains

Invest in municipal bonds

Probably plenty of other ways.
What mr. gold said, and a few other comments:

If I'm selling taxable investments, only the capital gains are included in AGI, not the portion of the sale proceeds that is basis. And I can offset gains with losses.

For example, say I need 50,000 for 2011. I sell $50,000 worth of my VWO etf that has appreciated 100% since I bought it a few years ago. My basis is $25000, my gains are 25000. My AGI, assuming no above the line deductions, is $25000. I'm barely above the poverty line for my family of 4. Done. If I really wanted to optimize my income stream, I suppose I could do a 72t on a Trad IRA to get 16000 of ordinary income, then sell 34000 of the hypothetical 100% appreciated VWO to generate 50k cash and 33k AGI. Ignoring taxable dividends that are in AGI of course.

I could tax loss harvest to partially or fully offset those cap gains. I could pull funds from my HSA to cover any medical/dental/vision expenses. I could do a 72t on my Roth.

I guess for some who have virtually all assets in traditional IRAs or 401k's, it may be hard to reduce your AGI artificially by crafting your income streams. But for most folks who have some tax diversity, it shouldn't be too hard to make AGI significantly less than your cash flow.
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Old 11-30-2010, 10:37 AM   #92
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Originally Posted by plex View Post
I was only away for half a day , here are your links.

"...consistently ranks as one of the top five wealthiest cities in the United States with population between 2,500 to 9,999 it currently is listed at the number four position and in 1990 it was ranked number two."

Bloomfield Hills, Michigan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Townhouse listing on zillow (sorry its 1,050 sqft for this one, but its below 100k), when the bottom hit during the housing crisis a couple years, I believe a couple were scooped up for below 50k. 99k seems to be on the high end for an asking price among the townhouses:

746 E Fox Hills Dr, Bloomfield Hills, MI 48304 MLS# 28153919 - Zillow

Point made.
Well, no doubt about it, Blomfield Hills does qualify. Not attractive for me, but it is definitely an upscale quality place where you are not likely to get mugged in your driveway.

Fuego was right too. Prices really do vary around the country!

For example, search on 98112- a very mixed but central Seattle zipcode. One could not buy a legal lot on the worst block of the worst street for$100k, and likely not for $200K.

In Seattle area Redfin will not be listing or buyer's agent on a property less than $200,000.

Ha
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Old 11-30-2010, 10:50 AM   #93
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Fuego was right too. Prices really do vary around the country!
I didn't mean to be trite when I made that comment. But I know some people get used to prices in their localities and can't believe prices could be so low (or so high) elsewhere.

Plenty of places still have decent homes for $100k. It would be tough to find something like that where I live, but for a little more you can get a nice single family house. I thought it was 1999 again when I was driving around and saw signs advertising "Homes from the 130's" in a new neighborhood in a nice part of town.
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Old 11-30-2010, 11:48 AM   #94
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Ha,
also in the zip code list posted by youbet, there is quite a lot of ~100k town houses available for sale in Greater Atlanta Metro area (three zip codes in Roswell and Marietta made the top 100 list).
I think Atlanta area has great salary/home price ratios.
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Old 11-30-2010, 12:01 PM   #95
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I was only away for half a day , here are your links.

"...consistently ranks as one of the top five wealthiest cities in the United States with population between 2,500 to 9,999 — it currently is listed at the number four position and in 1990 it was ranked number two."

Bloomfield Hills, Michigan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Townhouse listing on zillow (sorry its 1,050 sqft for this one, but its below 100k), when the bottom hit during the housing crisis a couple years, I believe a couple were scooped up for below 50k. 99k seems to be on the high end for an asking price among the townhouses:

746 E Fox Hills Dr, Bloomfield Hills, MI 48304 MLS# 28153919 - Zillow

Point made. And no, this isn't a community like Miami where there are walled off communities of wealthy surrounded by extremely poor areas, the median income is in the the high 100k range. With some research, I would not have any trouble finding similar locations, though i do agree you need to check them in person to be certain.

There would also be no state taxes on income past age 65. Energy subsidy (or any kind of subsidy other than for healthcare in 2014) would be impossible in just about any state on 20k/year, the cutoff is near the poverty line for any assistance at all.
Well there ya go. Good catch plex. Buying a home in a desperately distressed (Detroit suburb) area might just be a cheap living solution for someone trying to make it independently on $20K per year pre-tax.

I did notice (on the Zillow map below the listing) that many of the condos in that bldg and in adjacent buildings were also for sale and probably vacant. This condo itself has been on the market for a year with three different realtors. I suppose the buyer would have to be careful that maintenance, etc. on the building would be done with so many vacancies and the resulting lack of association fees being paid. And that the neighborhood would stay up to par in general. Those are risks you have to assume when bargain hunting in extreme situations like this.

I have a close friend who recently sold his single family home in nearby Flushing, Mich. He had to bring a small check to the closing since the value of his home had dropped so much. And he said it had gotten depressing living in an area with so many for sale signs and vacant properties. Still, the houses themselves were bargains. He's in Dayton now and likes it much better.
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Old 11-30-2010, 12:02 PM   #96
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Home prices falling faster in most metro areas

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Home prices are falling faster in the largest U.S. cities, and a record number of foreclosures are expected to push prices down further through next year.
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Old 11-30-2010, 12:16 PM   #97
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He's in Dayton now and likes it much better.
My goodness, who would ever think of that? As the world turns...

Ha
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Old 11-30-2010, 12:31 PM   #98
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My goodness, who would ever think of that? As the world turns...

Ha
That someone would move to Dayton?

Not to continue to steal the thread, but....... and since we long ago drifted from the specific topic of retiring in the NE on $20 pre-tax.....

You've mentioned you're doing some condo hunting as of late. How would the prospect of buying a condo in a building with many long term vacancies in a neighborhood of condo buildings also having many units for sale sound to you? On the positive side, there's always the chance the auto industry and other rust belt industries, whose demise has pulled Detroit real estate into the dumper, will recover and re-employ. Or, other industries might develop there. On the downside, maybe Detroit's economic prospects are going to be nil for a long, long time and some surrounding neighborhoods will become serious, detiorating problems. Or something inbetween.

I love bargains. But sometimes things are priced low for a reason.
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Old 11-30-2010, 12:41 PM   #99
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You guys just love to argue. In what sense is Topeka, KS northeast? Northeast of Guymon, OK?

I remember reading of some yogi who lived on air and water, no need for food. I bet that would help quite a lot too.

Ha
Sorry. I thought this: "Unless there is some place in America where there are no drugs, no section 8, no illegals living 8 to an apartment, no street crime or break-ins in cheap neighborhoods, etc- then this stuff is mostly fantasy." was a statement about America in general, not specific to the northeast.
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Old 11-30-2010, 12:43 PM   #100
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That someone would move to Dayton?
Yes. Everytime I read about Dayton, some company is leaving. Dayton is pretty, a lot of very nice big houses were built first by the wealth generated from their excellent soil, and later by machine tools, auto components, NCR, and other excellent middle American manufacturing concerns. But that was yesterday, right?

Quote:
Not to continue to steal the thread, but....... and since we long ago drifted from the specific topic of retiring in the NE on $20 pre-tax.....
that one was DOA

Quote:
You've mentioned you're doing some condo hunting as of late. How would the prospect of buying a condo in a building with many long term vacancies in a neighborhood of condo buildings also having many units for sale sound to you? On the positive side, there's always the chance the auto industry and other rust belt industries, whose demise has pulled Detroit real estate into the dumper, will recover and re-employ. Or, other industries was develop there. On the downside, maybe Detroit's economic prospects are going to be nil for a long, long time and some surrounding neighborhoods will become serious, detiorating problems. Or something inbetween.

I love bargains. But sometimes things are priced low for a reason.
I agree of course. Speculating is one thing, living another. Who wants to live in a place where the young people are migrating elsewhere? Of course it's cheap, but...

Ha
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