Is "unretirement" the new retirement?

[traineeinvestor]

Six years into retirement and I'm finding that I enjoy my sporadic part time consulting "work." That fact that I don't have to do anything I don't want to helps but I find I enjoy the academic side of things - it adds to my enjoyment of retirement rather than detracts from it. If it was the other way around I wouldn't do it.

The money is irrelevant.

 

[racy]

.... A whopping 92% of workers currently in their 40s say they plan to keep working...

Yeah, I said the same thing in my 40s, even 50s up until the point one day I thought to myself "I don't have to do this anymore".

 

[Andre1969]

Yeah, I said the same thing in my 40s, even 50s up until the point one day I thought to myself "I don't have to do this anymore".

Yeah, what people say they're going to do in the future, and what they actually end up doing when they get there, are two different things. FWIW, I found this blurb online...

"According to the 2017 SHED, there were 49,261,056 retirees in America in 2017. Interestingly, 61.9% of currently retired Americans waited until their 60s – or later – to retire. 15.1% waited until at least 66 years old to retire."

So, if I'm doing the math right, this would infer to me that 38.1% of Americans retired before their 60th birthday. That's a pretty big chunk!
And, only 15.1% retired at age 66 or later.

I pulled that from here: https://dqydj.com/average-retirement-age-in-the-united-states/

One other tidbit that was interesting...while the average age of people who recently retired, in good health, is 63, the most common age for them to collect SS is 70. I wonder if this means they're simply getting their data from when people start taking SS benefits? So, if I stopped working at 50, because I hit my magic number, but didn't collect SS benefits until I was 70, would they count me as "retired" at 70?

Something I never really thought of, before, until now: How, exactly, DO they determine you to be "retired" for statistical purposes? For instance, if I work a deal where I get laid off and can file for unemployment now, at age 49, but have no intention of going back to work, I'd consider myself "retired", but I think the gov't would count me as "unemployed". But if I just quit (or when the unemployment ran out), wouldn't I simply drop out of the system? Seems to me the government would basically lose track of me, from the point my unemployment ran out, to the point I filed for SS. I think the only statistic I'd really show up in is that that group that is not in the workforce participation rate. For instance, if the workforce participation rate is currently 63.3%, I'd be part of the 36.7%?

 

[USGrant1962]

...

Something I never really thought of, before, until now: How, exactly, DO they determine you to be "retired" for statistical purposes? For instance, if I work a deal where I get laid off and can file for unemployment now, at age 49, but have no intention of going back to work, I'd consider myself "retired", but I think the gov't would count me as "unemployed". But if I just quit (or when the unemployment ran out), wouldn't I simply drop out of the system? Seems to me the government would basically lose track of me, from the point my unemployment ran out, to the point I filed for SS. I think the only statistic I'd really show up in is that that group that is not in the workforce participation rate. For instance, if the workforce participation rate is currently 63.3%, I'd be part of the 36.7%?

Good observation on the workforce participation rate. There are a lot of people who don't work, and classifying them as "retired" is not always obvious.

Another example is SAHMs. As a guess, a quarter or so of married mothers quit full-time work when the children come and never go back. Are they "retired" on the day the youngest leaves for college?

 

[street]

I retired early and for a few summers I worked on a experimental farm and loved all the physical work. I did the job for exercise and to get in shape. It was one of the best things I could have done with my life and body/mind after retiring. It was an 80 day work program and loved it very much.
It took my mind and body to new levels and rejuvenated me mentally. I considered myself retired and it doesn't matter if some don't think so or not. It was like going to the gym for an all day workout, loved every minute of the hard work.

 

[Hermit]

I have been building my house since I retired over 6 years ago. Building a house, especially by yourself is definitely a lot of work. I don't get paid, but I originally thought I would save a lot of money. I'm not so sure of that now. It does allow me to use my old motor home as a temporary home.



I also need a snow plow to be able to get in and out in the winter and spend a lot of time plowing for the community. I ask people to contribute to the kid's camp if they want to pay me, but I still get money in cards and letters. I send that cash on to the camp and make sure a thank you letter gets sent out to them as a tax free gift to the camp. My point is I am retired and I don't want anything that could complicate my tax return like some sort of income.


You really have to work at maintaining this "retired" status.

 

[karen1972]

I'm more surprised that so many people in their 40s think they will be able to get a job in their 60s given automation/ health condition, etc .. ie what drives so many people out of the market now.

Retirement though is very subjective, plenty of people retired that own real estate that needs to be managed (as they are not paying someone).. to me that seems like work too. My goal was really to do a 3 month consulting gig ever year or two, giving us something to do, keeps us up to date on skills (just in case the worst happens as we are in our 40s), and allows for us to splurge on travel. Reality though is my honey took a 3 month gig and has been working there for over a year now so accidently "unretired". He likes it, its no stress and great pay so we have earmarked that money for one of those massively long cruises.

 

[nancyfrank232]

He likes it, its no stress and great pay so we have earmarked that money for one of those massively long cruises.

Nice

A repositioning cruise or something with more stops?

 

[gwraigty]

Good observation on the workforce participation rate. There are a lot of people who don't work, and classifying them as "retired" is not always obvious.

Another example is SAHMs. As a guess, a quarter or so of married mothers quit full-time work when the children come and never go back. Are they "retired" on the day the youngest leaves for college?

DH says that I retired at 28, when I quit working for pay shortly before we got married. However, I'm not sure if I should call myself a SAHM, since our kids are 24 and 22, but SAHW would seem to imply someone who doesn't have kids.

 

[ncbill]

This is an excerpt from an article by the Motley Fool...

"Unretirement" is the new retirement
Traditionally, workers have spent most of their adult lives employed, and either building up pensions or, in more recent decades, stashing money away in retirement accounts. Then at some point in their 60s, they leave their jobs and spend the rest of their years retired.

Today's workers, though, have a different idea of what their retirements will look like. A whopping 92% of workers currently in their 40s say they plan to keep working part-time in retirement, according to a survey by TD Ameritrade and The Harris Poll. Even among those in their 70s, 52% say they plan to continue working an average of 10 hours a week.

Additionally, many workers say they don't plan to ever fully retire. Among those in their 40s, 61% of respondents said they'd prefer to take year-long "mini-retirement breaks" while they're younger, and then work until a later age, rather than work continuously for four decades or more and then retire completely.

https://www.fool.com/retirement/2019/11/23/this-new-retirement-trend-could-mean-you-dont-need.aspx

I take issue with people who continue to work and claim to be retired, to me that is redefining what it means to be retired in a way that stretches the definition too far.

Plenty of past polls also had people expecting to work at least part-time into their 70s or later but actual statistics showed few could make that.

e.g if your employer boots you to the curb in your 50s or 60s that might well be the permanent end of your time in the workforce.

 

[Reach]

Something I never really thought of, before, until now: How, exactly, DO they determine you to be "retired" for statistical purposes? For instance, if I work a deal where I get laid off and can file for unemployment now, at age 49, but have no intention of going back to work, I'd consider myself "retired", but I think the gov't would count me as "unemployed". But if I just quit (or when the unemployment ran out), wouldn't I simply drop out of the system? Seems to me the government would basically lose track of me, from the point my unemployment ran out, to the point I filed for SS. I think the only statistic I'd really show up in is that that group that is not in the workforce participation rate. For instance, if the workforce participation rate is currently 63.3%, I'd be part of the 36.7%?

The IRS doesn't lose track & knows if you are working

 

[iloveyoga]

+1
I'm about to retire from a 23 year career- I'll get a retirement package and all that. My husband says he's still going to work some, even though he doesn't have to. Someone has already pointed out that I will be a stay at home mom or housewife rather than retired. I don't care what you call me as long as I don't have to go to work anymore.

It's a state of mind!

 

[karen1972]

Nice

A repositioning cruise or something with more stops?

Across the Pacific and end up in Australia, lots of great little islands that are pricey to fly/stay to since many only have week long stays so while its a lot of days at sea, it would tick a lot of things off my bucket list and let us figure out which one we would like to go back to or not spend time/effort.

 

[ckelly78z]

I can't see myself working for a boss/W2 after I FIRE. I will do some small side work for cash, and some restoration work in my shop for profits after selling, but on my own schedule.

 

[Cayman]

Absolutely! And the Internet Retirement Police are actively investigating the unfounded claims of these miscreants. They will soon find out what "retirement" really means! Bwhhaaaaa

Hear hear! Thank God for the Internet Retirement Police.

 

[Music Lover]

Additionally, many workers say they don't plan to ever fully retire. Among those in their 40s, 61% of respondents said they'd prefer to take year-long "mini-retirement breaks" while they're younger, and then work until a later age, rather than work continuously for four decades or more and then retire completely.

I know someone who took a break in their 40's...now they're working at age 58 while all their friends are retiring and they hate it. But they have no choice.

 

[Focus]

Additionally, many workers say they don't plan to ever fully retire. Among those in their 40s, 61% of respondents said they'd prefer to take year-long "mini-retirement breaks" while they're younger, and then work until a later age, rather than work continuously for four decades or more and then retire completely.

That may be what younger workers would like to do, but I doubt many employers will provide the opportunity. And if they switch companies, those frequent sabbaticals may not be viewed favorably.

 

[Amethyst]

Retirement Definitions:

I retired from Federal service in January, 2014, and immediately began collecting a pension.

In March, I returned to my former employer in a part-time, contract status, getting paid my old salary (sans benefits) while collecting my pension from OPM. OPM considered me "retired." The retirement police, while undoubtedly affronted, remained quiet.

Now I do no paid work, and the RP are content.

 

[marko]

Plenty of past polls also had people expecting to work at least part-time into their 70s or later but actual statistics showed few could make that.

e.g if your employer boots you to the curb in your 50s or 60s that might well be the permanent end of your time in the workforce.

From personal experience, trying to find a high level job after age 50 is [-]a challenge[/-] almost impossible. It was impossible for me anyway.

That may be what younger workers would like to do, but I doubt many employers will provide the opportunity. And if they switch companies, those frequent sabbaticals may not be viewed favorably.

We were once hiring/interviewing a guy who had taken a year off. We asked about it and he said that he just wanted some time off. We found it odd (a breakdown? jail time? unreliable? rehab?) enough to pass on him.

 

[Tyrone]

"I take issue with people who continue to work and claim to be retired, to me that is redefining what it means to be retired in a way that stretches the definition too far."
Sounds like someone has a lot of time on their hands. Perhaps a part time gig with an employer who may force you to take some $ for your efforts would be a better use of your energies.
Personally, I am retired and happen to work about 20 hours/school year as a consultant. Yes it is my choice, not by necessity. Yes, they give me $ for my time and expertise. No this doesn't change the fact that I can walk away whenever I want; hence I am retired.

 

[Gumby]

"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less."

"The question is," said Alice, "whether you can make words mean so many different things."

"The question is," said Humpty Dumpty, "which is to be master— that's all."



You can call yourself a ham sandwich if you like; it doesn't affect me.

 

[trumpeting_angel]

We read one version or another of this important semantic discussion every few months. Aren’t there weightier issues related to these articles?

- some people really do enjoy their work
- some people feel better with a sense of structure and contribution that they don’t seem to be able to pull off without working
- “downshifting” to a “retirement job” (as a ski patroller told me today on the lift) brings in a small amount of money, perhaps enough to justify a new pair of skis or a beer at the local aprés bar
- some people find out that FI/lean turns out to be too restrictive, so they start putting money in the piggy bank again
- there’s a retirement crisis looming

This is not to say that these other discussions don’t happen. But long, repetitious arguments over the exact definition of retirement - maybe are a little lightweight?

 

[PandaBear]

We read one version or another of this important semantic discussion every few months. Aren’t there weightier issues related to these articles?

- some people really do enjoy their work
- some people feel better with a sense of structure and contribution that they don’t seem to be able to pull off without working
- “downshifting” to a “retirement job” (as a ski patroller told me today on the lift) brings in a small amount of money, perhaps enough to justify a new pair of skis or a beer at the local aprés bar
- some people find out that FI/lean turns out to be too restrictive, so they start putting money in the piggy bank again
- there’s a retirement crisis looming

This is not to say that these other discussions don’t happen. But long, repetitious arguments over the exact definition of retirement - maybe are a little lightweight?

So much of this is me!
Dh retired this summer. He had a long commute and was unhappy in his job.

I’m a bit younger. I could retire this June (end of school year). We will technically be FI.

But, I like my job. I typically work 8-3:30 following a school calendar. I make my own schedule. It’s fulfilling and I like the people I work with. My commute is about 7 minutes.

I do better with structure.

I don’t want to be FI, I want to be FAT FI. Working a couple more years bumps my pension up by 50% and gives us good inexpensive medical.

I’m worried about a financial downturn and feel better having a bigger pension and more time not drawing against our retirement savings.

But, I’m not retired. I don’t say I am.

What I feel good about is I can truly retire if needed. If my mom (who is independent) needs help, I can retire. If I’m lucky enough to have a grand baby and can help with daycare, I’ll retire.

I honestly feel I have the best of both worlds.

 

[harley]

I sort of accidentally unretired. When I retired in 2006 I achieved the dream of a lifetime. I really enjoyed it for 3 years, although the Great Recession gave me some concern. I started a side gig in 2009, although not for the money and not because of the recession. The intention was to spend a few hours a year, and I'd make beer money, maybe a few grand/year. But I appear to have filled a badly needed niche, and it's grown significantly, especially over the last 4 years. It's still a very part time gig, but at certain times (like now) I'm putting in 12-14 hour days. Other times I go a couple of months and barely even think about it. Unlike back when I was employed, I don't have to get up at any particular time, or be at anyone's beck and call. I'm a snow bird, and can do the job anywhere I happen to be. The only thing that makes me work so hard is my personal sense of pride in doing a good job. I enjoy what I'm doing, and I'm making nearly what I was making at Megacorp.

So I don't really consider myself retired anymore, more like semi-retired/self-employed. And sometimes I think about just letting it all die off. If it dried up, I'd probably miss it, but I wouldn't be too upset. The money is nice, and I'm teaching DW how to do it in case I kick off. The other thought is to pass it off to DD at some point. But for now I'm mostly happy to do it. I don't really care what the retirement police think. I spend a lot of time hiking, kayaking, reading, cooking, working on our homes, visiting the kid/grandkids, and otherwise doing whatever I feel like. Sometimes I have to work, but I do some of that while I am watching Man in the High Castle or football or something. It's a pretty good life, all in all. Who cares what the labels say?

 

[RobLJ]

To avoid the semantics argument, I started calling myself semi-retired, since I've been happily working part-time on my own hours online for 4 years. It feels like retired to me, but whatever. We didn't need the money, but it did convince younger DW to retire last year when she was disgruntled in her work. Now she may do books for a friend with a seasonal business for a couple k, so I guess she will fall away from salvation into semi-semi-retirement purgatory, event though it is more of a favor than work.


My gig will run out in May, so I guess I then join the retired, although for giggles I may pick up a badly paid gig doing reviews on science fiction for a publisher's newsletter, so I may become just very very very not-quite-retired, to preserve semantic purity for retired. (Or maybe I'll just do it for free, in which case I'll be retired, I guess.)


Retirement has a semantic meaning and then a whole spectrum of other meanings, which I think is the reality. (Reminds me of truth or the good in the Socratic dialogues.)