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Old 04-02-2013, 10:32 PM   #21
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That is good news about the bp, congrats. Those were dangerously high levels. I'm on two bp meds myself, and I'm hoping that when I'm able to retire, I'll be able to cut down to one (some of this is just heredity, unfortunately).

Meadbh, I didn't mean to send you to the archives for research... Who knows, maybe that summary didn't do it justice, and the actual research was more thorough. I hope so. Anyhow, the point is that job stress leads to physical illness, which is something I don't think anyone would argue with. I certainly wouldn't...
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Old 04-02-2013, 10:57 PM   #22
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It wasn't the job which was killing me, it was the commute which was killing me. That and the growing struggle to even catch my train 2 days a week had gotten worse and worse.
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Old 04-03-2013, 12:53 AM   #23
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it was killing my soul.
Yes, precisely.
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Old 04-03-2013, 02:26 AM   #24
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Yes I feel burnt out. My BP must be up too. Did you notice that most of my posts tend to be written between 1 and 4 am ? Can't sleep well, even with meds and exercise.
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Old 04-03-2013, 02:38 AM   #25
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What was killing me was the thought of devoting so much of my remaining time as a healthy able individual to work rather than doing the things I have been wanting to do for so many years
with you all the way on that. but now i find i have too much time and isolation on my hands .. and miss the paycheck but hey i escaped from the cube farm and avoided an early heart attack and checked off a few more things on my bucket list
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Old 04-03-2013, 03:10 AM   #26
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Yup. that's me. Only in the last year I was diagnosed with with Stress disorder related to work: Panic attack, anixety disoroder. Abusing booze to unwind myself at work. Lack motivation and energy to work out(I used to work out 6 days a week).

That's what I'm came to this forum. Going to try to retired within the next 5 years(40 years old currently). Only have $450k saved, but I can live a Frugal live style without a problem...just need to convice the wife. OBAMA care, here I COME!!!

by the way, had a co-worker in his early 40's died from a heart attack...


ALL 5 BABY!!!

"1. How often are you tired and lacking energy to go to work in the morning?
2. How often do you feel physically drained, as if your batteries were dead?
3. How often is your thinking process sluggish or your concentration impaired?
4. How often do you struggle to think over complex problems at work?
5. How often do you feel emotionally detached from coworkers or customers, and unable to respond to their needs?"
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Old 04-03-2013, 08:34 AM   #27
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Since you brought up confounding variables, I decided to search for the original article using Google Scholar. It is a 27 page review article. I will read it later and I will share my critical appraisal with the forum.
As flaky as it it is, the Fortune article linked in the OP takes a lot of "artistic license" if they're referring to this 2005 paper (link below, it's all I could find). The authors acknowledge several limitations in their wrap up and suggest further study.
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The results of this study should be interpreted with caution because of some limitations. First, as our findings were based on cross-sectional data, the temporal ordering of the association of burnout, depression, and anxiety with CRP and fibrinogen concentrations cannot be definitively established.
This could get interesting here, different results for men vs women...
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Following the demonstrated association of employee burnout or vital exhaustion with several risk factors for cardiovascular disease (CVD) and CVD risk, the authors investigated the possibility that one of the mechanisms linking burnout with CVD morbidity is microinflammation, gauged in this study by high-sensitivity C-reactive protein (hs-CRP) and fibrinogen concentrations. Their sample included 630 women and 933 men, all apparently healthy, who underwent periodic health examinations. The authors controlled for possible confounders including 2 other negative affective states: depression and anxiety.
  • In women, burnout was positively associated with hs-CRP and fibrinogen concentrations, and anxiety was negatively associated with them.
  • In men, depression was positively associated with hs-CRP and fibrinogen concentrations, but not with burnout or anxiety.
  • Thus, burnout, depression, and anxiety are differentially associated with microinflammation biomarkers, dependent on gender.
http://www.apa.org/pubs/journals/rel...ocp-104344.pdf

You can find something on the internet to support almost any POV...
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Old 04-03-2013, 09:01 AM   #28
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Although I thoroughly enjoyed the work itself the peripheral issues were driving me nuts. Bureaucracy and insane traffic in the DC area chief among them.

I'm much better now though.
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Old 04-03-2013, 09:14 AM   #29
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Yes I feel burnt out. My BP must be up too. Did you notice that most of my posts tend to be written between 1 and 4 am ? Can't sleep well, even with meds and exercise.
Obstetrics = standing by (from the Latin), waiting for babies.......who have absolutely no respect for the wee hours! It's a killer.
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Old 04-03-2013, 09:38 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by Midpack View Post
As flaky as it it is, the Fortune article linked in the OP takes a lot of "artistic license" if they're referring to this 2005 paper (link below, it's all I could find). The authors acknowledge several limitations in their wrap up and suggest further study.

This could get interesting here, different results for men vs women...http://www.apa.org/pubs/journals/rel...ocp-104344.pdf

You can find something on the internet to support almost any POV...
Yes, that was the article I found first, but here is one of Sharon Toker's most recent papers from 2012, which I think is the one on which the Fortune article was based:

http://library.tasmc.org.il/Staff_Pu...2012/toker.pdf

She looks pretty perky herself, and productive too!

Sharon Toker - Google Scholar Citations
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Old 04-03-2013, 09:55 AM   #31
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Yes, that was the article I found first, but here is one of Sharon Toker's most recent papers from 2012, which I think is the one on which the Fortune article was based:

http://library.tasmc.org.il/Staff_Pu...2012/toker.pdf

She looks pretty perky herself, and productive too!

Sharon Toker - Google Scholar Citations
Thanks, I was wondering why I couldn't find the 93 new cases in the original article. It appears this is an extension of the 2005 work, and yet she is still recommending "further study." And I wonder why they seemingly dropped the striking differences between men and women in the 2012 article, but more than enough for me on this thread...job burnout is bad, but making the case independent of all the other CHD factors seems difficult at best.
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Old 04-03-2013, 10:13 AM   #32
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Thanks, I was wondering why I couldn't find the 93 new cases in the original article. It appears this is an extension of the 2005 work, and yet she is still recommending "further study." And I wonder why they seemingly dropped the striking differences between men and women in the 2012 article, but more than enough for me on this thread...job burnout is bad, but making the case independent of all the other CHD factors seems difficult at best.
All research stimulates more questions, hence it is very common to see a plea for more studies at the end. This, of course, is the prelude to writing the next funding application.
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Old 04-03-2013, 02:03 PM   #33
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Yeah, my job was killing me. It was the constant stress of ever higher demands with ever fewer resources, most of which demands were unreasonable at best. The biggest killer was one person in the hierarchy whose ethics and integrity I found to be lacking, and whose demeanor was totally devoid of humanity. It drove my reasonably good blood pressure up to 168/110 (with spikes as high as 198/125), I was clenching my teeth constantly...so much so that my jaw always hurt. Doc put me on meds to bring it down. Four months later I retired. A month and a half in to retirement, I halved my dosage. Another month later (about 3 weeks ago) I went off the med. This morning's BP was 108/68, with a RHR of 48.

Yes, the job was killing me. I had "one more year" syndrome for a long time, and I have no doubt that if I had stuck around for "one more" this time, I would have significantly damaged my health, perhaps beyond repair.

R

+1 on that Rambler ... I decided that my health was much more important than a few more dollars in my investment funds... I am now down 85 pounds !! My blood pressure is excellent and all other numbers excellent too ! I agree one more year of what I was doing too, could very well have killed me.
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Job stress
Old 04-03-2013, 02:37 PM   #34
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Job stress

Now all we have to do is to convince the American Heart Association to help ban job stress like they did against smoking and obesity
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Old 04-03-2013, 02:54 PM   #35
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The other way my job hurt my health was the inability to eat properly at work. Lunch was a 30 minute rushed "chow-down' event with little time to prepare healthy food. Snack time was limited to a few minutes. Now that I am home for most meals, I eat far more fresh fruits and vegetables and much less prepared foods. I often have a small glass of red wine with lunch (for medicinal purposes only.) Snacks are veggies with things like freshly made avocado dip or hummus. I estimate my sugar and refined carbs consumption is down by at least 60%, and probably much more.
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Old 04-03-2013, 06:19 PM   #36
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My guess is that health problems that are associated with work vary with dependency on the paycheck. I imagine those who work while FI probably suffer the least adverse health effects, while those who need sufficient raises and bonuses to cover their ever increasing obligations are probably most susceptible to job stress. I'd even guess that the typical FI worker has better health metrics than the typical early retiree, especially during stock market panics and political/economic turmoil because the FI worker has more diversified income, and because not all early retirees are there by choice. Maybe someone can add a sixth question "how much do you need the paycheck" to see if the rest of the survey answers change.
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Is your job killing you?
Old 09-04-2013, 07:14 PM   #37
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Is your job killing you?

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Originally Posted by Rambler View Post
Yeah, my job was killing me. It was the constant stress of ever higher demands with ever fewer resources, most of which demands were unreasonable at best. The biggest killer was one person in the hierarchy whose ethics and integrity I found to be lacking, and whose demeanor was totally devoid of humanity...Yes, the job was killing me. I had "one more year" syndrome for a long time, and I have no doubt that if I had stuck around for "one more" this time, I would have significantly damaged my health, perhaps beyond repair.

R
Hmm...I must have been the one they hired to replace you. Sounds like an exact replica of the place I work at now. My OMY date is 12/14. Not sure I'll make it til then...
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Old 09-04-2013, 11:04 PM   #38
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Absolutely, it's killing both of us, there is no doubt about that. Like a previous post, our date is now Dec'15. Not sure we'll make that, either. And as a heart disease survivor, I know for absolute certain, that job stress was a HUGE factor in my illness.
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Old 09-05-2013, 03:53 PM   #39
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This sort of stressor can be addressed while working. Yes, even while raising a family. My shiftworking co-workers and I share tips on planning and organizing what we will bring to eat at our stations, since there IS no meal break. Sandwiches,yogurt, fruit and raw vegetables are easy to pack once you get the hang of it. Exercise has to become almost programmed, and some other leisure activity has to be given up in its place, but if you approach it in a positive way it can be managed. Emergencies will of course throw the best plans into a cocked hat, but that is why establishing eating, exercise, and billpaying habits is essential.
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The other way my job hurt my health was the inability to eat properly at work. Lunch was a 30 minute rushed "chow-down' event with little time to prepare healthy food. Snack time was limited to a few minutes. Now that I am home for most meals, I eat far more fresh fruits and vegetables and much less prepared foods. I often have a small glass of red wine with lunch (for medicinal purposes only.) Snacks are veggies with things like freshly made avocado dip or hummus. I estimate my sugar and refined carbs consumption is down by at least 60%, and probably much more.
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Old 09-05-2013, 05:25 PM   #40
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Absolutely, it's killing both of us, there is no doubt about that. Like a previous post, our date is now Dec'15. Not sure we'll make that, either. And as a heart disease survivor, I know for absolute certain, that job stress was a HUGE factor in my illness.

+1 another heart disease survivor. I can't prove it was job related, but I sure feel a lot better FIRE'd.
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