Island of misfits?

[brewer12345]

I went to school in the deep south where there is quite a bit of racism still in existence.  Up until about 7th grade, there were no (large) private schools in the area where i worked, so pretty much everyone, including the children of wealthy families, all went to the public school.   So there were plenty of good children to be around, and we had no problems getting good teachers to want to come teach there.

Around 7th grade, one private school came near the area, then soon after another.   The wealthy and predominately white families left to these schools, and left "everyone else" at the public school.  As you might expect, the quality of this public school system went to the crapper. 

I believe every American should be entitled to the same baseline level of education, and that we, as a collective whole, should pay for it.  Then, if you want to personally pay for higher education (in the form of college), then you can feel free to do so.  I dont think kids should be punished and doomed to a poorer education because their parents cant afford to send them to a private school.   I would support an active AP system within the public school to challenge the kids that want to work harder.    But I don't think being a racist is a valid reason to bypass a public school.

Ah, yes, another trade-mark Azanon Grand Canyon-esque leap: private schools equals racism.

How about this one for size: I do pay for the local schools via my real estate taxes (85+% of my RE taxes go to the school district).  You would fall over if you saw how big my tax bill is.  The teachers in the local district have the highest average pay in the county and the longest tenure (and fat pensions) and the schools are still just OK.  As such, I plan on sending my kids to Catholic school (also for religious reasons).  Hard to see how I am selling the public schools short...

 

[Outtahere]

Azanon, Is your father happy? Is he enjoying life? And I don't mean in what you would consider enjoying but his idea of enjoyment. If he enjoys watching his 25inch tv and living like he does then so be it, he's earned that right to do what he wants.

 

[azanon]

Ah, yes, another trade-mark Azanon Grand Canyon-esque leap: private schools equals racism.

And i said that.....   not.    It is why some people do it though.  You either realize that or you're highly naive.  Which is it?   (i'm guessing the latter).

How about this one for size: I do pay for the local schools via my real estate taxes (85+% of my RE taxes go to the school district).

You think i didn't know that?  Who doesn't know that.

You would fall over if you saw how big my tax bill is.

I doubt it.  I always vote for the mileage increases.  They're needed.

The teachers in the local district have the highest average pay in the county and the longest tenure (and fat pensions) and the schools are still just OK.

They're paid jack squat here.  Private school teachers are paid even less.

As such, I plan on sending my kids to Catholic school (also for religious reasons).  Hard to see how I am selling the public schools short...

I already told you once how you're doing that, but i dont mind telling you again.  Your intelligent kid provides a benefit to the other students by virtue of just being around them, and being in the same class with them.   The (good) teachers don't want to teach at public schools anymore because people like you think your kids are too good for them.   

Religious reasons?  elaborate.   Your church on Sunday not cutting it?

 

[Jay_Gatsby]

Everyone has the right to do what they want with their money.  If you own a home, you pay property taxes, part of which go to pay for the public schools.  If you decide to send your kids to private school, you're paying tuition twice -- once in the form of property taxes, and the second time in the form of post-tax dollars for private school tuition.  Choosing to send your kids to private school is a choice based upon the belief that the public schools aren't up to the task of educating your children in the manner in which you would like them educated.  You could pressure the school district to reform itself, and thereby provide your child with a better education in exchange for your property tax dollars, but your children would suffer in the meantime, assuming that your pressure would even be effective -- which it wouldn't.

Are you abandoning the public schools? Yep, you bet. Are you being unfair to to children whose parents can't afford private school? Nope, you're looking out for what's best for your children.

 

[azanon]

Azanon, Is your father happy? Is he enjoying life? And I don't mean in what you would consider enjoying but his idea of enjoyment.  If he enjoys watching his 25inch tv and living like he does then so be it, he's earned that right to do what he wants.

I think he's happy, but its kind of hard to tell.  He's an introvert (like me) so any assessment in that area could easily be in err.

Happiness is one thing, but not everything is subject to opinion.  It is not an opinion to recognize that money's value is only expressed when it is given away.  In and of itself, it does nothing.   Its a medium of exchance and can be exchanged for goods and services.  Until it is exchanged for these services, it does nothing.

You might say, well it gives security.  I rebut, does it now?  I believe "feeling secure" is nothing more than a decision and a state of mind.   The religious folks, like brewer, should be able to easily agree with me here.   I can decide today i'm both secure and happy, and money doesn't even have to enter the picture.   

If my dad needs 2 mil+ to feel secure, then i'm back to where I started;  I pity him.

 

[azanon]

You could pressure the school district to reform itself, and thereby provide your child with a better education in exchange for your property tax dollars, but your children would suffer in the meantime, assuming that your pressure would even be effective -- which it wouldn't.

To me, this is like someone saying, "i could sign up and fight in WW2 and help defeat the Japanese, but if i do that, i might die in the process. I'd be much better for "me" (and/or my family) if i go hide somewhere."

We thank you for making a difference and making the world better, and taking on the inevitable suffering the process........ not.

 

[brewer12345]

Az, Think the problem is that you tend to extrapolate your own small town AL experience to the rest of world and you also tend not to put any qualifiers in your statements.  As something of a literalist, the latter particularly incenses me.

Considering the above, I'm going to let a lot of your inapplicable or just plain assinine comments go, except to suggest that you get out more (not in AL, or MS for that matter).  See the world, dude.

On the religion issue: I believe that kids need moral grounding and since I am a practicing Catholic and my kids are/will be baptized, confirmed, etc. in the church, I believe that grounding should be in the mores and beliefs of the Catholic church.  An hour a week doesn't cut it, IMO.  I spent time in bith public and Catholic schools and IMO there is no real substitute for a school environment permeated by the specific religious and moral views of the church.

 

[brewer12345]

To me, this is like someone saying, "i could sign up and fight in WW2 and help defeat the Japanese, but if i do that, i might die in the process.   I'd be much better for "me" (and/or my family) if i go hide somewhere."

We thank you for making a difference and making the world better, and taking on the inevitable suffering the process........   not.

I choose to do what I believe is best for my family, but I also care about others and my community. I try to improve the lot of others, but I am not willing to sacrifice my family in the process. Get it?

 

[azanon]

Considering the above, I'm going to let a lot of your inapplicable or just plain assinine comments go, except to suggest that you get out more (not in AL, or MS for that matter).  See the world, dude.

I feel exactly the same way; hence the dissection of your post.  

Also, i had to chuckle on that comment.  We have tons of ER's here posting midday, and you're telling me to get out more?  Thanks for the laugh.

On the religion issue: I believe that kids need moral grounding and since I am a practicing Catholic and my kids are/will be baptized, confirmed, etc. in the church, I believe that grounding should be in the mores and beliefs of the Catholic church.  An hour a week doesn't cut it, IMO.  I spent time in bith public and Catholic schools and IMO there is no real substitute for a school environment permeated by the specific religious and moral views of the church.

I believe morals and any religion are mutually exclusive.   Heck, i think in many cases they're inversely correlated (see below).

Since i dont go to church, i'll tell you what i see almost daily in my "secular" world;  Muslims fighting a "jihad" killing innocent people every day (in the name of God).   If God were truly dead, we'd probably all be a lot better off;  Our #1 historical reason for killing each other would be gone!

 

[Jay_Gatsby]

To me, this is like someone saying, "i could sign up and fight in WW2 and help defeat the Japanese, but if i do that, i might die in the process.   I'd be much better for "me" (and/or my family) if i go hide somewhere."

We thank you for making a difference and making the world better, and taking on the inevitable suffering the process........   not.

Azanon,

So my children should receive a lesser education for the sake of other children?  I could raise so many analogies that would demonstrate the fallacy of your argument it's not even funny.  We live in a capitalist society where nothing is, or ever will be, truly equal.  We have the freedom to choose how to spend our money (or not to spend, as your father's situation demonstrates).  Let's leave it at that.

 

[azanon]

I choose to do what I believe is best for my family, but I also care about others and my community.  I try to improve the lot of others, but I am not willing to sacrifice my family in the process.  Get it?

I think i was clear when i opined that those that are choosing private schools for pre-college education are selfish.   It hasnt changed in the past 15 minutes.

 

[brewer12345]

Also, i had to chuckle on that comment.  We have tons of ER's here posting midday, and you're telling me to get out more?  Thanks for the laugh.

My suggestion was to get out and live somewhere else besides small towns in the deep South bible belt.  You might find that the world isn't an either/or proposition.

I'm also gonna let the religion comments go.  No future in that debate.

 

[azanon]

So my children should receive a lesser education for the sake of other children?  I could raise so many analogies that would demonstrate the fallacy of your argument it's not even funny.  We live in a capitalist society where nothing is, or ever will be, truly equal.  We have the freedom to choose how to spend our money (or not to spend, as your father's situation demonstrates).  Let's leave it at that.

You don't have the freedom to do a lot of things with your money, nor should you.   Try building in a wetland without a permit anywhere near where i work, and i will demonstrate this truth to you firsthand.

Sometimes it makes sense for you to be "encouraged" to do the right thing.  If you think the people always do the right thing when left to their own volition, then you're extremely naive.   People like me save you from yourself.

Pure 100% capitalism would be self-destructive in time.

 

[azanon]

My suggestion was to get out and live somewhere else besides small towns in the deep South bible belt.  You might find that the world isn't an either/or proposition.

Funny, i dont recall saying i still live there (in the small town with the lone AA public school).

 

[brewer12345]

Sometimes it makes sense for you to be "encouraged" to do the right thing.  If you think the people always do the right thing when left to their own volition, then you're extremely naive.   People like me save you from yourself.

I can't even imagine anyone but a gummint flunkie saying the above.

Where's JG when you (finally) need him?

 

[Brat]

My children attended both Catholic and public schools.  Each have their strengths.  One attended public primary and high schools, then a Jesuit University.  The other attended Catholic primary and high schools at various times when he needed a mello enviornment, graduated from a public college.  

Values are an important part of a child's education.  How they learn that will depend on the parents.

I think it is important that children interact in a positive way with children of different economic and social backgrounds.  Through that experiance they learn that different is OK. 

 

[rmark]

Watching a 25" TV while having a several million dollar net worth suggests that the dollars were arrived at by not buying more TV. There is no reason for a person to change their lifestyle to fit a stereotypical view of what a millionaire should have. My uncle drove the same very well cared for car for years, while everyone else in the company got new ones. He liked the car he had.

 

[azanon]

I can't even imagine anyone but a gummint flunkie saying the above.

Since the gloves are off, let me clear up any remaining doubt;  I think you're a complete idiot, and have for some time.  I'm totally not surprised you're calling in as an ally in arms; JG.  Figures.

(REWahoo: Just taking an eye for an eye approach with the personal attacks; not sure what the exact rules are).

 

[azanon]

My uncle drove the same very well cared for car for years, while everyone else in the company got new ones. He liked the car he had.

This makes some sense to me, but its not a perfect analogy. Its both easy and common to get attached to one's car, so in that instance, i can understand why someone doesnt get a new one. I'm personally attached to my 11 year old 240sx. Its my baby! (figuratively speaking).

But a TV? Ok, well i guess one's entitled to get attached to an old TV, but that would just seem a bit weird to me.

 

[brewer12345]

Az, I love you too.

Seriously, I am not really interested in a pissing match (despite much provocation).  You look at the world very differently than I do, and my experience is that I usually learn from those with a dfferent viewpoint.  As such, I'd rather try to bridge the gap than widen it.  Sorry if I set you off.  No offense meant.

 

[Jay_Gatsby]

You don't have the freedom to do a lot of things with your money, nor should you.   Try building in a wetland without a permit anywhere near where i work, and i will demonstrate this truth to you firsthand.

Sometimes it makes sense for you to be "encouraged" to do the right thing.  If you think the people always do the right thing when left to their own volition, then you're extremely naive.   People like me save you from yourself.

Pure 100% capitalism would be self-destructive in time.

The goverment allows me to send my children to private school, although it "encourages" me to send them to public school at no charge (except for my property taxes, which aren't voluntary).  If you think that sending kids to private school should be illegal, by all means call your representatives and tell them how you feel.  I have to warn you that doing so is likely to fall on deaf ears.

 

[azanon]

I can't even imagine anyone but a gummint flunkie saying the above.

I assumed that your intent was to offend me with this statement. I think it was a safe assumption.

But I agree, its not the direction I would have chosen it to go, and I dont think I crossed the line first. I agree it was a regretful path, nonetheless.

 

[azanon]

The goverment allows me to send my children to private school, although it "encourages" me to send them to public school at no charge (except for my property taxes, which aren't voluntary).  If you think that sending kids to private school should be illegal, by all means call your representatives and tell them how you feel.  I have to warn you that doing so is likely to fall on deaf ears.

Where i live, i'm told whites used to think they'd never have to go to the same school as blacks too.  So i see you're assuming past and present = the future? 

Give us time; changes for the good happens yearly.  I prefer to focus on the positive, and trust that America will continue to improve beyond where it is today.

If you're asking me to predict what would happen, i dont think any of them would be abolished.  I could see how the schools may be forced to accept those that couldnt afford it under some terms that don't exist today;  just guessing though.

 

[brewer12345]

I assumed that your intent was to offend me with this statement.  I think it was a safe assumption. 

But I agree, its not the direction I would have chosen it to go, and I dont think I crossed the line first.  I agree it was a regretful path, nonetheless.

I made that statement because I found it outrageous and offfensive.  You wonder why many people don't like the gummint?  Things like flunkies telling adults (AKA voters) that they know better.  Actually, my post was an edit of what I really think.

You want reconcilliation?  Try not pointing the finger in response to a peace offering.  But I suppose it is about what I should have expected...

 

[azanon]

brewer, before we go any further, I have to admit ignorance here.  Since i didn't even know what a "gummint" is, i just ignored it and assumed you were calling me a flunkie (i guess cause of my dropping out of the AFA).   

In my defense, neither my dictionary here on my desk or dictionary.com knows what it is either.   Perhaps you can educate me on a new word for the day?

And if you want reconciliation, try not insulting me then posting after that acting surprised why i was offended when you called me a flunkie.

......

But back on the schools, it would be a conservative estimate to say that 3/4ths of the people use private schools to get away from non-whites here in Arkansas.  No one would every actually say that publically, but this truth is obvious.  They would say, publically, because the schools are just poor (and leave off the elaboration.... because they have too many blacks and/or other nonwhites in them).