Jealous, don't laugh.....

[Siv]

Ok, I'm sure I'm going to get lots of lectures from all of you for these, anyway...please be gentle.

Gotta admit I'm a bit jealous. Today I heard my aunt complimenting my sister who seems to be making lots of money in her dentist practice. I know she's heavily leveraged, I'm not sure exactly how much saving she has but know she spends almost as much as she makes because of equipments payment and lifestyle. I used to ask her to manage a portion of my money but found that she would use it to her own advantage first, thus ignoring my request on paying something when needed. She does this to other family members as well so I assume she's using these fund.

Meanwhile, I'm very frugal. My husband who is a converted saver from watching me, perhaps, isn't very far. Together, we save between 100-130K yearly but because of our principle, we don't have much to show for in terms of material things. Although we have properties in other places, we currently live in rented 3 bdr apt downtown, no mercedes in driveway, rather korean car from office allowance. I think, our life is very regular although gratefully comfortable.

Our splurge for example would be on resort vacation 2-3 times a year but since we're expecting baby this summer, I assume we'll stay put for the year. No other major expense/indulgement. No one knows how much we worth but sure my family members are guesstimating. I felt like I never get compliment for saving much, people get praised for spending.

What's wrong with this picture? Am I wrong for being jealous? What would you do if you were me so I can stay persistent, consistent, straight onto my way of LBYM - below rather than beyond without feeling like I'm nobody.

Must be this pregnancy hormones I'm feeling....

 

[lswswein]

congrats on the good work Siv. If noone else we all will be complementing you. I think more than anything else once you become FI you will stop caring about what others think and take actions that please you.

-h

 

[chris2008]

Congrats! You are doing well.
People are judging other people from what they see.
You prefer not to show off. So there is little to see right now.
Your time will come: later you will be seen spending to be able to work less or for early retirement.
I just hope that your aunt will never have to see that your sister is creating trouble with other money than her own.

 

[Siv]

Thank you for your kind words.

I know...I know and I tell myself we're doing the right thing, no need to show off just be happy with what we have, keep on saving, etc but psychologically maybe I also want to be acknowledged.

It's been motivating to read the meaning of LBYM...before I didn't even think I was that way, just don't like spending. Now, if only I know as much about investing!

 

[arandomwalk07]

You're doing incredibly well with your current saving. Think of how when you reach FI your stress levels will drop considerably, and how those with lots of material "things" will continue to worry about whether or not they will be able to pay for them. I wake up every morning preparing to go to a job, knowing that I'd rather spend the time doing a million other interests, and my saving goes towards ensuring I get to the point where I can do that as soon as possible.

I read the thread on whether there is a FIRE profile, and it struck me that you really have to be confident (and happy) in yourself to pull this off. If you depend on the judgement of others as to whether or not you are successful in life, you might become FI and RE but you'll possibly not enjoy the journey.

On the other hand, we all like to be acknowledged as successful in life. Unfortunately today society tends to value the appearance of financial wealth rather than the reality. I don't think there's any point feeling miserable while saving for 30 years in order to retire 10 years earlier, maybe you could spend a bit more now on "status objects" if you wish and retire only 7 or 8 years early.

 

[Texas Proud]

Siv....

First off, I would bet most on this board are 'jealous' of other people's material wealth at times... it is natural in our society. You see someone driving a very nice car and say "boy, I wish I had that"... and then say 'but it cost SO MUCH'... people with big houses etc.... it is IMO natural

But, there are some major holes in your post that you should answer going forward... you say you are 'saving' at least $100K per year.... so, how much do you already have saved What is your total expenses in a year?? How long do you plan to work before you RE (that is you and your DH)...

The reason I ask why is if you are not spending SOME of your money to have a nice life now, what are you saving it for?? Don't save up millions of dollars JUST TO HAVE MONEY.. you should ENJOY. So figure out your plan on how much you will need, guess how long you want to work and maybe go out a spend a bit to make you feel a bit less jealous... buy a nice Toyota or something...

 

[kaudrey]

Siv,

If you are saving over $100K a year, you must be making a LOT of money. However, this is no one's business but your own. A Random Walk said what I was thinking - you have to have confidence in yourself to go against the crowd - to save when others might spend.

You should think about why you feel like you need this external approval. I would guess than 90% of the people on this board do not feel that they need to explain themselves to anyone or feel the need to impress others. Work on building up your self-esteem and confidence. Do what is right for YOU. Who CARES what your aunt thinks or what your sister does? You shouldn't.

Life is not a contest.

Karen

 

[W2R]

Or - - boast about the size of your 401K a little bit, and about how fast it is growing! Oh, I am sooooo evil!

 

[haha]

I would guess than 90% of the people on this board do not feel that they need to explain themselves to anyone or feel the need to impress others. Work on building up your self-esteem and confidence. Do what is right for YOU. Who CARES what your aunt thinks or what your sister does? You shouldn't.

Life is not a contest.

Karen

We might remember that many cultures are much more family and tradition oriented than we are here in the US, largely becuase many of us check out of our family group when we no longer need our parents money.

It is quite natural to care what others think,especially one's own family. Getting intellectual distance, creating new perspectives are all helpful, but IMO many immigrant groups retain valuable family links that most of us don't do very well at maintaining. And some of the price of that is that one must care what significant others think, what one's perceived place in the hierarchy is.

Ha

 

[Calgary_Girl]

Hi Siv.

I can totally relate to your situation.

DH and I are well off but you can't really tell by looking at us. Our net worth is almost $1.3 million but we don't live in a McMansion or drive a BMW. Our house is pretty modest at 2,200 sq. feet and our cars are a 2002 4Runner and a 2001 Lexus (bought used so DH can have a nice car for work when he's entertaining clients). Heck, we even have some rooms in our house that still don't have furniture in them because we don't use the room (yet).

Most of the time I'm pretty happy with our situation because I don't feel like we're depriving ourselves of anything and I'd rather be able to sleep well at night knowing that if we lost our jobs tomorrow we'd be okay. Then, there's my sister and her husband. They both have good jobs and although they save quite a bit my sister is a bit of the high maintenance type and every time I talk to her she's just spent another $1,000 on a new handbag (yup, $1K for a HANDBAG). They also just bought a new house and plan on gutting it and installing modern appliances, new bathroom fixtures, etc. It's hard NOT to get jealous sometimes but I keep telling myself to keep the big picture in mind since DH and I would like to retire by the time we're 50 while dear sis will most likely keep working until she's in her '60's.

Congrats on the expectant baby! Our little girl just turned a year old 5 days ago...it goes by fast!

 

[TromboneAl]

I used to ask her to manage a portion of my money but found that she would use it to her own advantage first, thus ignoring my request on paying something when needed.

Could you elaborate on that?

 

[OkieTexan]

First off, I would bet most on this board are 'jealous' of other people's material wealth at times... it is natural in our society. You see someone driving a very nice car and say "boy, I wish I had that"... and then say 'but it cost SO MUCH'... people with big houses etc.... it is IMO natural

A friend of mine once told me it was a waste of time and energy to compare my "insides" with other folks' "outsides". It is like comparing apples to oranges. I am convinced that a lot of the excessive consumption in the world is used to hide unhappiness, mask insecurity, heal bad marriages, and appease unruly children.

I have done my share of envy; but it has not produced much happiness for anyone. Until I know more facts about the individual situation; I am better off withholding the envy. Usually, it turns out that I am much better off without the "thing" and the grief that goes along with it. Another problem with this is the "BS Factor". A lot of people tend to embellish these things, too.

 

[Dawg52]

Must be this pregnancy hormones I'm feeling....

Don't be jealous, be happy with what you have accomplished. Now.......have a big bowl of ice cream with a pickle.

 

[megacorp-firee]

It's human nature. In my youth, I used to be envious too. I bought into the 'show what you got' society ... until I figured out that you gotta like what you do and celebrate your accomplishments.
I finally got there... and life is good...
I have seen enough people who do things for appearances, make a lot of money, have McMansions, and luxury everything.. and are miserable.

I agree with dog, go out and celebrate your accomplishments and treat yourself in some way.

... and congrats ... sounds like you are doing GREAT.

 

[runchman]

 

[retireandbike]

Meanwhile, I'm very frugal. My husband who is a converted saver from watching me, perhaps, isn't very far. Together, we save between 100-130K yearly but because of our principle, we don't have much to show for in terms of material things. Although we have properties in other places, we currently live in rented 3 bdr apt downtown, no mercedes in driveway, rather korean car from office allowance. I think, our life is very regular although gratefully comfortable.

Let me be a bit of a contrarian and say you might be excessively depriving yourself. I remember once looking at a nice bike and thinking, I can't justify this. Then the lady down the hall who rides a lot less than me (but also had a net worth several hundred times mine) went out and bought a really expensive bike (also nice, but not several thousand dollars nicer). At that point I realized that it was doing me no good to deprive myself of something that I would use a lot --- I could afford it, and it really doesn't make a different to my retirement plans. And indeed, after buying it, I've ridden that bike enough to destroy parts on it.

Folks who frequent this forum are frequently good at self-denial. But the purpose of living is the experience --- you only get once chance at it. So if that vacation you want is going to make life more bearable for you (at least in terms of getting away from the Joneses), then take it. When you are RE'd you will not be saying that you're glad you saved that extra $1000, but you'll look back at the pictures you took at that vacation with fond memories. At least, that's how it works for me...

 

[Milkman]

Siv

I can relate to your story. I grew up with a close family member, who could do no wrong. Staight A s in high school and college, married a college captain of an atheletic team. Grad school and then Med School in middle age. My family put her on a pedestal. I, who could be referred to as Mr. Mediocrity, had to listen to why can't you be more like her.

First her husband walked out on her after med school. Then, because she finished school in middle age, had tons of education loans to deal with later than most doctors. She probably used her house as a bank to pay down the loans. Next she proceeded to take multiple overseas vacations every year for years on end. Finally she lost her job and burned some bridges making new employment difficult without making a major move.

Bottom line is now I am considering a ER in the next few years while she contemplates working until her mid 70s just to make ends meet. Now the family that put her on that pedistal is gone, but I think about those comparisons often.

I am not laughing at your story. I understand your feelings. Cut yourself some slack. You can take comfort in "The rest of the story!"

Milkman

 

[bssc]

Don't worry about what others will think. You will have a new baby to show off.

 

[txdakini]

So what I read is that you are jealous of your family's admiration of your sister, not of her lifestyle. After all, you could have her lifestyle if you wanted it. You've just made different choices. You have a longer view and a greater plan. And, of course, I think you are much smarter, much wiser in your choices than your sister. You can't account for what others think is good or bad. Did you ever think your aunt may be complimenting your sister because she thinks your sister might "need" it more than you. Maybe she realizes how close to the edge she is living. You can only make your own choices and live with the consequences.

Several have commented that you may not be spending enough. I guess it depends on your own wants. You didn't say what your income or net worth is. Saving 100k+ is astounding/admirable unless you make 500k or 1M a year, then it's only so-so at least in the FIRE community. If you're feeling deprived, then live it up a little. If you're only reacting to an isolated incident, stay the course.

And I agree, you'll get lots of attention and admiration because of the new baby. Enjoy!

 

[Rich]

I'm head of the dept where I work. I've got young guys running around in $35,000 dollar cars that earn about 25% of my income. They rent where they live, put no money in deferred comp, or seem to save any money for that matter.

My wife and I are free of debt (none, nothing, nada), and earn a healthy 6 figure income. Own our own home, have three cars (one is a toy, a Mazda Miata). I've never spent more than $17,000 dollars for a car. Ever. Buy used ( a year or so old, low mileage, one owner). We save around 30% of our annual salaries. Most of it goes into a qualified account, around 10% for pension and the rest in an internet bank at around 5% return (we want to buy a second home down south, thus we're heavy into cash right this moment).

At any rate, we've discovered that you can live a very comfortable life in this country if you're free of debt, earn a good living, and don't do crazy things with your money.

 

[citrine]

I definitely identify with you Siv....my brother is doing residency, does not have a pot to piss in with all the debt and stuff....he does not know how to balance a checkbook or do his laundry. However, he is the "golden child".

I on the other hand have been working since 14....went out on my own when I graduated college at 21...took a couple of detours, but am back on the right path.
Even with all of the "damage" that I did.....I am on track to take early retirement in my 40's....

If you are looking for validation from other sources.....it is rare and far between....look for validation within yourself....if you are happy with your life and the amount that you are saving, then who cares what anyone else thinks!

You will have the last laugh anyway.....while they go off to work

 

[Siv]

Didn't mean to disappear, I currently live in shanghai - different time zone.

Thank you for all your replies and encouragement, very well appreciated. I love my sister but sometimes although both her and her husband are in good earning potential bracket(both dentist), I think they outspend their income. I said that because 1. she owes one of my brother 23K, 2. she used another sister's 3K without telling her first, it was supposed to be sent to her singapore account. I stop letting her managing my money because I don't like telling her she should respect other people's money. I asked her to manage my rentals and she would keep the rent but late in paying management charges, etc.

I guess really, (and I've been telling myself this) that I shouldn't be so concern. I'm sure they can handle things their own way. I do feel I don't trust her money wise, though.

Yes, family views probably are important in my family because of the way we're raised. I'm sometimes dissappointed despite of how well we're doing, simply because noone acknowledge my success, zip...yes, yes...I shouldn't worry about what other people think, it just bothers me a little. You see all this debate going on inside me, that's the reason why I started this thread, I feel like I need to see if there are ways to make myself feel better.

Personally I make 40K nett after tax + 15K rentals + 15K investment, interest. This is in good years, so it varies from 50 to 70K. My saving rate is 80%, my goal is 85%. No mortgage, no car payment. The rest of savings comes from DH but we have separate account. Having said so, I very much realize our lack of investing knowledge. I would say we're not in high bracket income, rather high bracket savings.

 

[Siv]

It's true that I'm not the golden child in the family, rather I'm some kind of black sheep because I refuse to be close to aunties/uncles. I refuse to be told of what to do since 18.

When we were growing up, there was time when my dad was very tight with money because he was paying 3 kids foreign student tuition in US. One of my aunt had us sit with her and told us specifically not to continue on ... oh, I still remember that. I decided to work 3 jobs as a librarian, in cafeteria while doing my own little company and take 40 hours load. Ha...I made it master's degree with no help.

 

[Siv]

What I mean is I think I still carry that hurt eventhough I know I'm not doing that bad.

 

[runchman]

My saving rate is 80%, my goal is 85%. No mortgage, no car payment.

Well your family may not recognize your 'success', but I certainly recognize your AMAZING savings rate. Incredible !!!

I fundamentally believe that people are either savers or spenders. If you are a saver, you spend less than 1 times your available income, if you are a spender, you spend more than 1 times your income. Doesn't matter how much the income is, the spending is either less than or more than depending on your money personality.

So rejoice that you are such a good saver. You can sleep easy at night.

- John