Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
John Bogle On Managers Income
Old 06-27-2007, 12:42 PM   #1
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Pasadena CA
Posts: 2,695
John Bogle On Managers Income

Recent presentation by Bogle: Vanguard founder questions money managers' takes | Dallas Morning News | News for Dallas, Texas | Business Columnists: Cheryl Hall

One of the reasons I like VG and Bogle and maybe TIAA-CREF is that they do tend to want their members to do as well as the managers. I am not against a brutal, Darwinian market that makes the market efficient. What does bother me is the number of people with responsibilities for managing assets and providing advice who do not do well by their customers. My wife has a 403b and what I have come to know of the sharksadvisors from insurance companies and most school district management its just criminal IMHO, that decent advice is not the default mode for working people's investments. I don't mean market beating funds, I mean just index funds and especially low fees. For the more sophisticated, let them speculate in the market and watch their own expenses. I work for the Federal Govt and have the TSP program, no killer returns just wide indexes and low fees. Not the ultimate, Buffett will beat the hell out of it, probably the better investors here too, but decent and transparent. There is not mystery in the system, the system or one like it could be available to everyone with not much work.

Thank you for listening.

Rant off.
__________________

__________________
T.S. Eliot:
Old men ought to be explorers
yakers is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 06-27-2007, 01:20 PM   #2
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
FinanceDude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 12,484
Quote:
Originally Posted by yakers View Post
Recent presentation by Bogle: Vanguard founder questions money managers' takes | Dallas Morning News | News for Dallas, Texas | Business Columnists: Cheryl Hall

One of the reasons I like VG and Bogle and maybe TIAA-CREF is that they do tend to want their members to do as well as the managers. I am not against a brutal, Darwinian market that makes the market efficient. What does bother me is the number of people with responsibilities for managing assets and providing advice who do not do well by their customers. My wife has a 403b and what I have come to know of the sharksadvisors from insurance companies and most school district management its just criminal IMHO, that decent advice is not the default mode for working people's investments. I don't mean market beating funds, I mean just index funds and especially low fees. For the more sophisticated, let them speculate in the market and watch their own expenses. I work for the Federal Govt and have the TSP program, no killer returns just wide indexes and low fees. Not the ultimate, Buffett will beat the hell out of it, probably the better investors here too, but decent and transparent. There is not mystery in the system, the system or one like it could be available to everyone with not much work.

Thank you for listening.

Rant off.
TSP is not available to the average American, so that's problem #1.

The insurance companies like Principal and others bury high fees in a bundled product so complex that a CFO can barely decipher it.

The Feds look the other way on a lot of that stuff.

That's the way it's been for 30 years............
__________________

__________________
Consult with your own advisor or representative. My thoughts should not be construed as investment advice. Past performance is no guarantee of future results (love that one).......:)


This Thread is USELESS without pics.........:)
FinanceDude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2007, 02:22 PM   #3
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
MasterBlaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,359
I really liked a couple of the lines in that link...

"At a party given by a billionaire on Shelter Island, the late Kurt Vonnegut informs his pal, the author Joseph Heller, that their host, a hedge fund manager, had made more money in a single day than Heller had earned from his wildly popular novel, Catch-22, over its whole history. Heller responds, 'Yes, but I have something he will never have: Enough.' "

"And for God's sake, think about who you are."
__________________
MasterBlaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2007, 02:45 PM   #4
Recycles dryer sheets
pfpelican's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 229
There appears to be a pound sign # at the end of that URL....and that explodes IE. Taking that off makes it work fine.
__________________
Old Guys Rule
pfpelican is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2007, 03:49 PM   #5
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Pasadena CA
Posts: 2,695
Quote:
Originally Posted by pfpelican View Post
There appears to be a pound sign # at the end of that URL....and that explodes IE. Taking that off makes it work fine.
Actually when I posted it I used the tinyurl site and pasted in the result so I was surprised to see the long title. But when I clicked on it using firefox it worked so I didn't figure it was worth more attention. I am sorry to think that different browsers might have problems, the article is worth reading IMHO (of course, I posted it originally) I do like the line about 'knowing who you are', not what you expect to hear from financial advisors speeking to financial students.
__________________
T.S. Eliot:
Old men ought to be explorers
yakers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2007, 10:29 PM   #6
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
clifp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 7,450
Quote:
Originally Posted by yakers View Post
Recent presentation by Bogle: Vanguard founder questions money managers' takes | Dallas Morning News | News for Dallas, Texas | Business Columnists: Cheryl Hall

One of the reasons I like VG and Bogle and maybe TIAA-CREF is that they do tend to want their members to do as well as the managers. I am not against a brutal, Darwinian market that makes the market efficient. What does bother me is the number of people with responsibilities for managing assets and providing advice who do not do well by their customers. My wife has a 403b and what I have come to know of the sharksadvisors from insurance companies and most school district management its just criminal IMHO,
Rant off.

I think it is a useful rant, and one worth repeating, especially to folks outside this group of money akamai (wise in Hawaii) people.

Honestly there is no execuse for the number of civil servants, stuck with 403B with horrible choices like variable annuities with total expense running 2-3% and lousy returns. My roommate a Yale educated Nurse Midwife works for local Health Clinic. Her 403B offers VA from RiverSource, yet another weird spin off AMEX/AmeriPrice. There is literally 50 sub-accounts that she can invest in and they all suck. Seemly every month they send her a 200 page tome, which is barely decipherable to me, much less somebody without MBA and 25 years of investment background. For the one half of the population with IQs<100 they might as well write it in Greek or Klingon.

The collusion between public employee unions, insurance companies, and adminstrators is in borderline criminal. We could give almost every local and state employees a large raise if we demanded an end to these practices.

The irony of course is that the TSP is such a good program, far superior to most private company 401ks.
__________________
clifp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2007, 10:18 AM   #7
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
FinanceDude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 12,484
Quote:
Originally Posted by clifp View Post
IThe irony of course is that the TSP is such a good program, far superior to most private company 401ks.
So, WHY AGAIN is TSP NOT available to anyone but govt. workers? I'd love to invest in it..........
__________________

__________________
Consult with your own advisor or representative. My thoughts should not be construed as investment advice. Past performance is no guarantee of future results (love that one).......:)


This Thread is USELESS without pics.........:)
FinanceDude is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
john bogle


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
When to take Social Security sgeeeee FIRE and Money 244 05-27-2007 10:48 AM
Are You Still Paying Income Taxes? MetryOp Other topics 4 06-23-2005 12:06 PM
Minimum Income Tax/ Simple IRA ferco FIRE and Money 1 06-18-2005 08:15 AM
Dividend ideas? wildcat FIRE and Money 54 05-08-2005 08:08 AM
earned income wabmester Other topics 20 02-07-2004 09:10 AM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:10 AM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.