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Old 06-15-2016, 09:57 AM   #41
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She'll look for the fee because of the tax deduction. Then she'll become horrified at how much she is shelling out. Eventually she'll thank you.


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Anyhow, she will not listen.... and her DH is even worse... they actually are the type of people who can benefit from a FA.... but to me they should know what he is costing them...

And it's possible that - like not being on top of their investment costs - they're also not really on top of their tax deductions. Or perhaps they don't itemize. I like EastWest Gal's suggestion but I can see how it might not find success in this instance.
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Old 06-15-2016, 10:23 AM   #42
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There are certain economies of scale in k plans. Good read here regarding fee 401k fee litigation:


Uptick in Fee Litigation Reshaping 401(k) Industry | Bloomberg BNA
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Old 06-15-2016, 11:21 AM   #43
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You can teach dear sis something huge: That financial advisor fee is tax deductible. That will get her to find out what that fee actually is. It should be in the quarterly statements. The fee is taken directly out of the portfolio.
Just a note to add that advisor fees paid to manage a retirement account are only deductible on an individual's tax return if one pays the fee from money that is outside the retirement plan. If the fee is deducted from money inside the plan, it is not deductibe.
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Old 06-15-2016, 11:51 AM   #44
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When my wife started working for the public school system in Duval County there were over 20 companies to invest in for her 403b. All but 2 were insurance companies with annuities. Unfortunately the other options were bad too but we had to make a choice. In our case it was ML who tried to get us into mutual funds with an assortment of fees and loads. They even tried to convince us to let them buy and sell funds as the stock market changed. Instead we had them put the money into a money market account which we periodically moved to Vanguard Wellesley even though initially they said it could not be done. I don't know much about investing (and still don't) but I did the best I could to find a way to protect her retirement savings. Glad I started reading posts from here and Morningstar years ago. Too many people get ripped off. Thanks everyone at EarlyRetirement.org .

Cheers!
So I guess that'd be Duval County FL? That where as a general gov employee I jumped big time into the relatively new phenomena of 457 plans in 1980. At that time these were I believe only offered through insurance companies (ours was) and were about as transparent as a lump of coal. Few choices (stock, bond, or fixed) and the performance was not all that great although at that time I wasn't that adept at comparing to indexes. All I knew was the tax avoidance was Huuuuuge. Unfortunately we were stuck with no choice, and as soon as I learned after i left, that there came a time I could flip it all to my IRA I did. It was also interesting that technically your 457 remained a city asset in the event of bankruptcy.

I have no doubt from my government experience and reading what little I do about Jax pension plan fiascos there was some serious shenanigans going on in the selection of the provider. I'll just stop there.
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Old 06-15-2016, 11:00 PM   #45
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Helped DGF cash her 401K out. We couldn't believe how little it actually earned so started looking at the small print. Most funds had sales fees and high management fees.
One fund had a 5% sales fee and a 1.75% yearly management fee.
This was a small twenty something person company, so I can see where they might have not been able to negotiate a great plan, but these were just abysmal.
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Old 06-16-2016, 06:16 AM   #46
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That's what you get when you have a bunch of HR people running the benefits programs - they get "sold to" by the industry and are not educated in the right manner to know better. Better to also have the financial / types at the table too. Actually some financial types are nearly as bad.
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Old 06-16-2016, 06:25 AM   #47
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That's what you get when you have a bunch of HR people running the benefits programs - they get "sold to" by the industry and are not educated in the right manner to know better. Better to also have the financial / types at the table too. Actually some financial types are nearly as bad.
My experience in corporate decision making points to the "financial types" as the primary decision makers who understand very clearly the impact of the products that are chosen.
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Old 06-16-2016, 08:35 AM   #48
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My experience in corporate decision making points to the "financial types" as the primary decision makers who understand very clearly the impact of the products that are chosen.
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Old 06-16-2016, 04:36 PM   #49
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This should be required watching for anyone wanting to know about retirement. I just watched the re-run on HBO.
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Old 06-18-2016, 10:35 AM   #50
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Here's one person's take on Mr. Oliver's advice:

Don’t take retirement advice from John Oliver — Quartz

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Investing in an index fund cant help you figure out how much you are supposed to spend in your first year of retirement, or five years thence, or what your stock/bond allocation should be once youve stopped working. These are hard questions.
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A better strategy focuses on income. This may include buying a fixed-life annuity, a more sophisticated bond strategy, or dividend-oriented stocks.
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A successful retirement strategy takes good planning. Index funds are great, but investing for retirement is harder than it looks.
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Old 06-18-2016, 11:25 AM   #51
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I enjoyed it. And many of his other rants.
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Old 06-18-2016, 12:20 PM   #52
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Here's one person's take on Mr. Oliver's advice:

Dont take retirement advice from John Oliver — Quartz

Darn it its all just too complicated and probably has to has maths.
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Old 06-18-2016, 12:34 PM   #53
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John Hancock employees will have a difficult time doing their paperwork after this "tribute." I used to work for those guys years ago and often wondered how they could afford all of those great salaries and facilities. It's obvious now.

As I recall, the saying around the office was "tell um what they want to hear."
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Old 06-18-2016, 02:30 PM   #54
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Here's one person's take on Mr. Oliver's advice:

Dont take retirement advice from John Oliver — Quartz
I find it interesting that many of the most indefensible articles don't have the option for commenting. They just throw them out there as "a fact". Sort of like a parent saying "because I said so!"
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Old 06-18-2016, 03:24 PM   #55
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I find it interesting that many of the most indefensible articles don't have the option for commenting. They just throw them out there as "a fact". Sort of like a parent saying "because I said so!"

Have to love the last sentence; "Index funds are great, but investing for retirement is harder than it looks."
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Old 06-18-2016, 04:04 PM   #56
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Have to love the last sentence; "Index funds are great, but investing for retirement is harder than it looks."
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