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Old 08-27-2007, 01:00 PM   #21
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You guys better be quiet or REWahoo is going to take his rattlers on a little road trip to come visit you!

One of my friends who is an ex-New Yorker was a third or fourth generation city-dweller, he now lives about a half mile from my house. He told me he grew up never imagining living anywhere else but the city. Then he got a scholarship to go to college in Florida and he saw that there was life outside New York. When he graduated he became a NY state trooper and they assigned him to some small town in upstate New York. He said that was when he seriously reconsidered his future in regard to not living in NYC. Eventually he joined the DEA and wound up in Texas by circumstance after getting out of a bad assignment in the Bahamas.

His wife and his mom both were a little nervous about the move to Texas (they had visions of rattlesnakes and the Klan coming to visit). After his dad died (retired NYPD who refused to leave) his mom moved here and is living a few blocks away. I saw his wife in the grocery store a while back and she said they were trying to convince her parents to move here as well. She said that she told her mom that before she left she thought that anyone who wanted to leave the city was crazy. But now, she said, she can't imagine ever living there again.
i have family that lives north of denver and they like a lot more than NYC. fresh air, nice views, etc. last year they were selling 5000 square foot town homes in the area for like $400,000. wife and i looked in a toll brothers development and we got lost in the house it was so big.


depending on how this housing bubble turns out, i might be buying a house for cash soon
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Old 08-27-2007, 01:03 PM   #22
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i get a kick out of all the perpetual renter stories from manhattan

you can get a bigger place in one of the outer boroughs for half the price of manhattan. i bought a co-op in queens for $134,000 a few years ago and it pretty much doubled in value by now. my monthly payment is $1300 for mortgage and maintenance. in the last 4 years my maintenance went up by $50. My mortgage will never go up. the money i save i used to buy a car my wife and i use to drive into manhattan on weekends to shop. Dagastino's and one of the 5 Whole Foods. we actually prefer the Whole Foods in Long Island on exit 41N of the LIE, but sometimes don't feel like driving out there

my wife has a friend who's husband used to live on the UWS and now owns in Queens as well. He is so pissed off for all the money he wasted, in his own words.

if you think life in manhattan is too expensive, move. for the price of a studio, i can easily find you a 850 square foot 1 bedroom for $250,000 to $350,000. i've known a lot of people who never lived in manhattan and never want to pay the price of living there. it's one of those elitist made up things made up by the people that live there that they are somehow living a better life
I was there for my company a couple of years... was downtown during the WTC... kind of weird watching it out the window... but, there was NOTHING down there at night... even tough getting groceries...

Eventually moved to UWS... and was surprised at the difference... on my block was a movie theater, post office, gym, one block away lot of resturants, grocery store etc. etc.. one block to the subway. Yes, it was night and day...

And most did live on LI... but to me they were paying dearly for the commute..
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Old 08-27-2007, 01:07 PM   #23
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Did I mention it is within walking distance of the Opera House, the Presidio, my job, the Bay, and and and?
How often do you take advantage of the Opera House and other cultural attractions? I used to live in the city, but the thing I liked most about it was the variety of food.

I moved to a semi-rural area with easy access to the city by ferry, and I find myself rarely visiting the city. It's nice to know it's there, but we probably go back about once/month or so.

What I really miss is being near a University. Especially one with a good cheap sailing club....
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Old 08-27-2007, 01:24 PM   #24
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I was there for my company a couple of years... was downtown during the WTC... kind of weird watching it out the window... but, there was NOTHING down there at night... even tough getting groceries...

Eventually moved to UWS... and was surprised at the difference... on my block was a movie theater, post office, gym, one block away lot of resturants, grocery store etc. etc.. one block to the subway. Yes, it was night and day...

And most did live on LI... but to me they were paying dearly for the commute..
that $300 to $400 a month for LIRR and metro card is a killer


Battery Park is pretty dead at night, even before 9/11.

i have a movie theater 2 subway stops away or a 20 minute walk away from me. i've been going there since the early 1980's. i've gone into manhattan to see movies as well as other theaters in queens. movie is still the same, but i like the variety of the theaters. College Point has a nice huge movie theater. In manhattan my favorites were Union Square the 42nd street west side ones.

i go to the post office like 5 times a year and have one at work
wife bought a treadmill at home. our building is concrete so there is no noise.
manhattan has the best restaraunts, but you can get good food anywhere in NYC. there is a nice malaysian place we go to in queens where you can eat for like $20 for two people.
for food we drive to one of like 10 stores

one time i tried to think of one thing i can't get outside of NYC and the only thing i thought of is ethnic food. but a lot of "middle america" now has all kinds of people living there
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Old 08-27-2007, 01:36 PM   #25
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Why people live in such high priced East & West Coast areas is beyond me,
Pretty much the same reason that people buy a Mercedes or BMW instead of a Toyota; or wear nice clothes, or go ski-ing instead of stayng home.

Or live in San Diego rather than Houston. Let's see, San Diego wins on winter weather, summer weather, beaches, mountains. But Houston does win on cost of housing.

You may not perceive the value that they do, but they do- so they pay the extra money.

Ha
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Old 08-27-2007, 01:50 PM   #26
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How often do you take advantage of the Opera House and other cultural attractions? ....
Even when I lived up North I went to the opera 3 or 4 times a season, and that was my least used amenity. Now, being here, I go to something almost every day. Good access by transit is mostly an illusion, since it is expensive and a hassle. The only exeption I believe is frequent all night rapid transit, like in NYC and Boston.

I always laugh at "2 hours from the mountains, two hours from the beach, 3 hours from NYC". IMO, one needs to pick one of those and be 10 minutes, on foot, from whatever s/he picks.

Best all around cities are LA and NYC. Live at the beach in LA, you can easily drive to music, LA Art Museum, The Getty and walk daily to the beach. If you really hanker for mountains or ski-ing, if you can avoid traffic those are only an hour away. Super mountains 3 or 4 hours on the east side of the Sierras.

In NYC, live on a subway line so you can get to the beach without your car, get into downtown without your car, get to the doctor without your car. If necessary use your car to go grocery shopping.

Ha
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Old 08-27-2007, 01:58 PM   #27
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Have you ever lived in a University town, Ha? IMO, a University gives you a cheap diverse offering of cultural events, a world-class library, and continuing education opportunities. And if you pick one by a beach, you also get a lot of almost-naked coeds and good recreational opps.
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Old 08-27-2007, 02:04 PM   #28
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And if you pick one by a beach, you also get a lot of almost-naked coeds and good recreational opps.
I was going to make this super cerebral point, but now my mind is wandering....

I like this
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You may not perceive the value that they do, but they do- so they pay the extra money.
But I think it does lead us back to where we've already been. If Olav starts to perceive that what he is paying for is not worth it, then he will start looking for a place in Jersey or wherever. Apartments and houses are things we can love (or hate) to live in, but the question of value/utility has to be answered. He may stay there forever bitching about the prices or eventually come to decide he can live with it. Or, he may find himself parked on the beach near some college town - ogling the local coeds - and saying "I never imagined that people could live like this"

Maybe we have discovered why the super rich have multiple homes in different locations.
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Old 08-27-2007, 02:06 PM   #29
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Why people live in such high priced East & West Coast areas is beyond me, except that that is where the high paying jobs are.
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Pretty much the same reason that people buy a Mercedes or BMW instead of a Toyota; or wear nice clothes, or go ski-ing instead of stayng home.
I don't see it that way. Before a normal person can afford a Merc or a BMW, he/she should first be able to afford a Toyota. Before one can afford nice clothes, one must be able to afford cheap clothes. So as far as cars and clothes are concerned the choices are concious. Willing to pay more for the perceived higher quality.

But it does not work that way with where one lives. People live in NYC, Boston, SF, San Diego, etc... and pay outrageous money for rent, mortgage, mainly because that's the only way they know how to live. They propably never had a chance to explore other areas.

I remember taking my first road trip accross america in 86. I was already an engineer then. Almost everywhere I visited in the south and west was much much better than my lousy, expensive, crazy, and ridiculous Boston.
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Old 08-27-2007, 02:11 PM   #30
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I remember taking my first road trip accross america in 86. I was already an engineer then. Almost everywhere I visited in the south and west was much much better than my lousy, expensive, crazy, and ridiculous Boston.
Sam, are you saying you didn't like Boston?
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Old 08-27-2007, 03:02 PM   #31
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IMO, a University gives you a cheap diverse offering of cultural events, a world-class library, and continuing education opportunities. And if you pick one by a beach, you also get a lot of almost-naked coeds and good recreational opps.
Weren't there some long threads recently on 'great places to retire'?

I think the admins could delete them all, and just place your post in the 'Best of the Boards'. IMO you nailed it in one sentence

The second sentence is delightful icing on the cake....

Seriously, the little bit that DW and I have thought about this subject, the more we are drawn to a university town, should we decide to move.

-ERD50
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Old 08-27-2007, 03:41 PM   #32
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that $300 to $400 a month for LIRR and metro card is a killer
I was talking more in time... one of my previous co-worker had a two hour commute each way. Used to work on the train or watch a movie... throw on top of that a 8 to 10 hour day and the occasional 12 hours and you are talking some real time killing...
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Old 08-27-2007, 04:04 PM   #33
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i know someone that used to come in from port jefferson way out in suffolk
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Old 08-27-2007, 04:21 PM   #34
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How often do you take advantage of the Opera House and other cultural attractions? I used to live in the city, but the thing I liked most about it was the variety of food.

I moved to a semi-rural area with easy access to the city by ferry, and I find myself rarely visiting the city. It's nice to know it's there, but we probably go back about once/month or so.

What I really miss is being near a University. Especially one with a good cheap sailing club....
I'm a glutton for the cultural stuff, museums, art galleries, classes, lectures; bought four opera tix for the fall season (of nine operas) and may buy more at the door and/or bring along a friend who qualifies for rush tix. Picked up an ACT brochure at lunch hour today and was relieved that the stuff I really want to see doesn't conflict with opera season. Fugard (my fav), Gogol, Mamet and Shepard, I'm salivating. Berkeley Rep in doing a "After the Quake" in October--it's going to be a busy month.

I also love the variety of food, Thai, Vietnamese, genuine NY-style delis, etc. There's a great new place in the Presidio in the Lucus complex, Pres a Vi, where someone like me can get in without a reservation, amazing in-house baker and pastry chefs there; and affordable if you stay on the "top" part of the menu.

I'm affraid I would rarely get into the city if I moved away. Sort of like now, I get to places like Muir Woods and Mt. Tam only about once a year or so. Love riding the Ferry boats but also only do so rarely.

Cuppa
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Old 08-27-2007, 04:31 PM   #35
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Have you ever lived in a University town, Ha? IMO, a University gives you a cheap diverse offering of cultural events, a world-class library, and continuing education opportunities. And if you pick one by a beach, you also get a lot of almost-naked coeds and good recreational opps.
I really blew in location-wise. Next time I move I'll make sure it is closer than a 40-min. bus ride from a good, cheap college or nude beach. Don't get to Baker's Beach nearly often enough.

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Old 08-27-2007, 05:14 PM   #36
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Humm... nude beaches: one at Rooster Rock, another on Sauvie Island used 2-3 months a year (except for the goose-bump crowd). State University, great public transit. Lots of condos under construction, prices should 'moderate' in the next year or two. For renters, active apartment rating website.
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Old 08-27-2007, 07:47 PM   #37
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Have you ever lived in a University town, Ha? IMO, a University gives you a cheap diverse offering of cultural events, a world-class library, and continuing education opportunities. And if you pick one by a beach, you also get a lot of almost-naked coeds and good recreational opps.
I agree about being near a university. Right now I am about 2 1/2 miles from UW. I also like being near a medical library.

I would not give these amenities up except under considerable financial pressure.

Ha
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Old 08-27-2007, 08:27 PM   #38
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I was talking more in time... one of my previous co-worker had a two hour commute each way. Used to work on the train or watch a movie... throw on top of that a 8 to 10 hour day and the occasional 12 hours and you are talking some real time killing...
That is my life. I live in Connecticut but w*rk in Manhattan. It is almost exactly 2 hours door to door. On a good day I leave home at 6:30 am and return at 8:30 pm.
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Old 08-27-2007, 08:51 PM   #39
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That is my life. I live in Connecticut but w*rk in Manhattan. It is almost exactly 2 hours door to door. On a good day I leave home at 6:30 am and return at 8:30 pm.
That's rugged. TOO rugged, for me. I'd rather flip burgers in Noplace, Texas, than put up with that for any job. I would figure out how to ER on a burger-flipper's salary, which would probably be easier to do than what you are doing.

Your area is supposed to have great food, great cultural opportunities, and a thriving economy, but you can't experience that if you are in your car or on a train for four hours a day, not to mention working. You probably can't spend much if any time with friends and family, and I would imagine that you don't have time to enjoy your higher standard of living.
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Old 08-27-2007, 10:27 PM   #40
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But it does not work that way with where one lives. People live in NYC, Boston, SF, San Diego, etc... and pay outrageous money for rent, mortgage, mainly because that's the only way they know how to live. They propably never had a chance to explore other areas.
I'm sure that for some portion of the population this is true. On the other hand, there are some major benefits to living on the coasts (in particular, the west coast, which I am more familiar with).

You live within 3-4 hours of thousands of miles of hiking/biking trails, 14000' mountains, excellent skiing, incredible climbing locations, and you are still close enough to the ocean to surf. Living in the LA area, I had played sand volleyball at the beach, skied, and taken a quick mountain bike ride on the same day. If one is an outdoor enthusiast, west of the Rockies is the place to be.

Ethnic foods are incredible - you actually get real Mexican, Afghani, Armenian, Vietnamese, Persian, or a variety of other foods. And they are all within ten miles of each other.

And, very importantly, there is in general a significant amount of tolerance - mostly due to the incredible mix of different races and cultures. Sometimes it's nice to learn about other places and people without really leaving your own backyard.

Finally, many of these cities are hotbeds for academic and industry jobs. A large majority of the top engineering/science universities are on the coasts. San Diego, San Francisco, and Boston are tops in bioengineering; Silicon Valley is, well, Silicon Valley. San Francisco and New York have finance.
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