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Old 06-04-2012, 11:08 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by TromboneAl View Post
IIRC, the credit card companies don't find it worth their while to pursue the thieves.
Correct - that's because it doesn't cost them much. The e-mail I received from Amazon said that the vendors won't get paid, so even Amazon don't lose the money, even though I think it is within Amazon's ability to send me an e-mail every time MY credit card is registered to a new account so Amazon are in a position to prevent this.

The Amazon fraud guy told me the first name of the person who had created the account and registered my credit card for payments (and asked if I knew anyone of that name). It is apparently fairly common for credit cards to be registered against an account of a different name, particularly with parents and children, however, how hard can it be for the system to send an e-mail to the owner of the credit card to confirm when this takes place, even with husbands and wives?
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Old 06-04-2012, 12:16 PM   #42
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Sorry Alan. But your story is a good kick in the butt for me to review my acct more often. I have only been doing it maybe twice a month.
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Old 06-06-2012, 07:57 PM   #43
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Sorry, I should have said it's a debit card, with once-a-month billing. 25th of the month rolls around, I get a statement and the amount gets debited. (I can check online, but I didn't for a few days in this case). Claims are made after the fact.

For the second month, my bank branch advised me to wait until I had the formal printed bill from them, rather than print out a copy from their online banking. I had to make a formal declaration of a crime at the police station before the bank would reimburse me (maybe they had a lot of people making fake claims that they didn't buy that laptop on eBay), and they reckoned that it would be "easier" for the police to accept the card statement on letterhead.
You should be able to call as soon as you see the charge, tell them it's fraud and they MUST credit you account within 24 or 48 hours and block and reissue a card.

Then you have have to return an affidavit of fraud with in 30-45 days or they will put the charges back on.

Once they get documentation, they can start their charge back process.
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Old 06-07-2012, 10:41 AM   #44
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I was a bit worried that our son was putting a few thousand into his account and using his debit card. So I asked the banker at his bank what would happen if there is fraud. He told me the funds have to be made available within a few days and that our son would not have to prove fraud.

Now I don't have to nag DS to change his habits and will stop worrying about this one.
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Old 06-07-2012, 12:22 PM   #45
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I was a bit worried that our son was putting a few thousand into his account and using his debit card. So I asked the banker at his bank what would happen if there is fraud. He told me the funds have to be made available within a few days and that our son would not have to prove fraud.

Now I don't have to nag DS to change his habits and will stop worrying about this one.

My banker told me to select charge instead of debt, and to sign instead of using your PIN. Than my banker said it is treated with CC regulations which are different from debt.
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Old 06-07-2012, 01:26 PM   #46
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My banker told me to select charge instead of debt, and to sign instead of using your PIN. Than my banker said it is treated with CC regulations which are different from debt.
+1

With credit card fraud, the money never leaves your account (in some cases the money never even exists).

With a debit card, your money is taken from your account before you know it. I believe most banks would be very hesitant to just put the money back into the account without investigating. There are just too many dishonest people out there.


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I was a bit worried that our son was putting a few thousand into his account and using his debit card. So I asked the banker at his bank what would happen if there is fraud. He told me the funds have to be made available within a few days and that our son would not have to prove fraud.

Now I don't have to nag DS to change his habits and will stop worrying about this one.
Lsbcal, I am not doubting that you were told this, but I suggest that you double check on this.

Edit to add: When you think about it, there is very little incentive for the bank to even care about debit card fraud -- the bank is not out of anything -- they even make a few cents on the transaction.
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Old 06-07-2012, 03:35 PM   #47
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I was a bit worried that our son was putting a few thousand into his account and using his debit card. So I asked the banker at his bank what would happen if there is fraud. He told me the funds have to be made available within a few days and that our son would not have to prove fraud.

Now I don't have to nag DS to change his habits and will stop worrying about this one.
Yes, this has been my experience and that of many others with the debit Mastercards that are available at banks in my area. It has been this way here for many years here. Mastercard covers the fraud aspects AFAIK. However, financial advice columns from Yahoo and similar sources keep printing scare articles equating these cards with old fashioned ATM cards, and apparently fraud with those cards is a much more difficult matter for the consumer.

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You should be able to call as soon as you see the charge, tell them it's fraud and they MUST credit you account within 24 or 48 hours and block and reissue a card.

Then you have have to return an affidavit of fraud with in 30-45 days or they will put the charges back on.

Once they get documentation, they can start their charge back process.
This was my experience with debit card fraud as well. The money was put back in my account the day I went to my bank to report the fraud. Then a couple of months later I received a letter saying they wouldn't be removing it again because they determined it was indeed fraud.
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Old 06-07-2012, 04:02 PM   #48
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Yes, this has been my experience and that of many others with the debit Mastercards that are available at banks in my area. It has been this way here for many years here. Mastercard covers the fraud aspects AFAIK. However, financial advice columns from Yahoo and similar sources keep printing scare articles equating these cards with old fashioned ATM cards, and apparently fraud with those cards is a much more difficult matter for the consumer.



This was my experience with debit card fraud as well. The money was put back in my account the day I went to my bank to report the fraud. Then a couple of months later I received a letter saying they wouldn't be removing it again because they determined it was indeed fraud.
This must be a relatively recent change. I still do not like risking having my ACH items bounce because they appeared in the window when the account was emptied, and having to deal with all the inconvenience around that. Pay your money, take your pick.
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Old 06-07-2012, 04:11 PM   #49
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Regarding the debit card security, for myself I rarely use a debit card and then only at places where I never let the card out of my sight. For DS I just have to be satisfied that he is reasonably secure so as to avoid another unsolicited piece of advice giving -- the burdens of a parent .

I talk to him regularly about security regarding cards, passwords, etc. Yesterday I read about the LinkedIn password thefts. He has a linked in account but wasn't interested in signing in and changing his password. I mentioned some password procedures but who knows how much of this stuff sticks.
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Old 06-07-2012, 04:58 PM   #50
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This must be a relatively recent change. I still do not like risking having my ACH items bounce because they appeared in the window when the account was emptied, and having to deal with all the inconvenience around that. Pay your money, take your pick.
The bank took care of all that for me, too (although I don't know if that was required or simply because they were being nice). Paid everything that should have been paid, and no bounce charges.

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Regarding the debit card security, for myself I rarely use a debit card and then only at places where I never let the card out of my sight.
Same here. Probably a debit card wouldn't work all that well for me if I used it a lot. I always pay in cash at restaurants and so on.
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Old 06-07-2012, 05:09 PM   #51
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Same here. Probably a debit card wouldn't work all that well for me if I used it a lot. I always pay in cash at restaurants and so on.
I should have mentioned that the reason I ever use a debit card is that our credit union will give us reward checking interest rates if I rack up 12 debits a month. Currently 2% on up to $10k. Has been more generous in the past.
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Old 06-07-2012, 05:17 PM   #52
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There are many debates about CC and debit cards.... and as W2R points out, most of the time the bank handles it quickly...

The problem is... they do not HAVE to... there have been enough stories where some big numbers have occured and the bank 'balked' at fixing the problem right away...

With a CC, there are laws to protect you... not with the debit.... I, for one, will not put my trust in the debit card company or bank....


Pssst... I used to work at banks...
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Old 06-07-2012, 05:38 PM   #53
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...(snip)...
The problem is... they do not HAVE to... there have been enough stories where some big numbers have occured and the bank 'balked' at fixing the problem right away...
How big does the number have to be before you might be in trouble? Is it maybe $2k, $10k, $30k? I'd really like to know as I mentioned the rewards checking account above and the concern about the debit card having access to this.

I called my credit union and they said
1) the card has a max withdrawal per day of $500 (our typical is < $500 for the whole month)
2) they watch for unusual activity all the time
3) VISA guarantees I will be made whole in 3 to 5 business days
My observation, my credit union seems to be even more security conscious then our big bank accounts (Chase, BOA).
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Old 06-07-2012, 06:06 PM   #54
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There are many debates about CC and debit cards.... and as W2R points out, most of the time the bank handles it quickly...

The problem is... they do not HAVE to...
I'd suggest that anyone concerned about this should read the paperwork that covers their debit Mastercard (NOT an ATM card). That will give you all the information about what the bank is and isn't required to do according to the agreement between the bank, the customer, and Mastercard. It's pretty clear. .

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I used to work at banks...
Yes, but not at MY bank.
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Old 06-08-2012, 10:17 PM   #55
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Still trying to sort out the last kink in getting this thing put right. Having reversed the charges from Amazon, Penfed need to send me an affidavit to sign and return within 30 days otherwise they will re-apply the charges. I won't be home until August and don't have an address long enough that they can send it to. Yesterday they did say they can send me a pdf version for me to print out somewhere and mail it in.

Hopefully that will work. Just thought I'd share this little problem and solution.
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Old 06-09-2012, 08:41 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by W2R

I'd suggest that anyone concerned about this should read the paperwork that covers their debit Mastercard (NOT an ATM card). That will give you all the information about what the bank is and isn't required to do according to the agreement between the bank, the customer, and Mastercard. It's pretty clear. .
I'm not clear on the distinction between a debit card and an ATM card. We just have one that works both at the ATM and Costco.
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Old 06-09-2012, 10:55 PM   #57
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I'm not clear on the distinction between a debit card and an ATM card. We just have one that works both at the ATM and Costco.
Back in the Dark Ages, banks used to issue ATM cards that were mainly for use at the ATMs. They weren't debit Mastercards or debit VISA's, but just ATM cards. There were lots of places where you could use a Mastercard or VISA, but not the ATM card. However, the debit Mastercards and VISAs have a lot wider purpose. Check your card and card agreement to see which kind you have.

http://www.mastercard.us/debit-card.html
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Old 06-10-2012, 12:30 AM   #58
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I'm not clear on the distinction between a debit card and an ATM card. We just have one that works both at the ATM and Costco.

A debit card is a ATM card on steroids.... where an ATM card could be used at ATMs and a very few other locations, a debit card can be used anywhere the version of CC can be used... (ie, Mastercard, Visa)...

I do not get where some say an ATM card is worse than a debit card... with an ATM card, they have to have your pin to get at your money... and if someone accesses your account and steals money, you can get it back (as long as you report it in time etc. etc.).... just like they say with a debit.... there is a daily limit on the amount of money you can take out with an ATM card...

A debit card just takes out your money.... I remember someone said $500... but I have heard of others having a lot more taken out... so if it is true, then it is a bank thing... (thinking about it, maybe it is for cash withdrawals and not purchases)....
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Old 06-10-2012, 09:51 AM   #59
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...(snip)...
A debit card just takes out your money.... I remember someone said $500... but I have heard of others having a lot more taken out... so if it is true, then it is a bank thing... (thinking about it, maybe it is for cash withdrawals and not purchases)....
For my credit union $500 is the default limit. I can have this set to a lower amount if I want to.
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Old 06-11-2012, 02:31 AM   #60
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Sorry, catching up late with this thread. To Alan - Like you I have a card stolen in the past, and I know it's not fun. I hope this issue has been solved for you.
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