Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Keep on working?
Old 04-27-2014, 12:39 PM   #1
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Eagle43's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: DFW
Posts: 1,879
Keep on working?

The Economist exhorts us to keep on working because it's good for the world's economy. The magazine tells us the ageing population will cause a world economic slowdown. They laud Warren Buffet, who is 83, still working, as a good example. This article also claims that educated agers make better salaries, and that there is a growing divide between the educated and the blue collar worker. Further, we are living longer and this divide puts a huge strain on government because seniors vote. I suppose most of us who are FIRED would not be praised by this magazine. I know I could easily be identified as a deadbeat granddad. Anyway, here's a link, if interested.

Global ageing: A billion shades of grey | The Economist

If the link balks, it's from the April 26th print edition, entitled "A billion shades of Grey".

Sent from my AT100 using Early Retirement Forum mobile app
__________________

__________________
Resist much. Obey Little. . . . Ed Abbey

Disclaimer: My Posts are for my amusement only.
Eagle43 is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 04-27-2014, 12:55 PM   #2
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
travelover's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 9,874
In MegaMotor's corporate culture, you were considered over the hill at 40 and past retirement age at 55. I'll never apologize for getting the heck outta Dodge City.
__________________

__________________
Yes, I have achieved work / life balance.
travelover is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2014, 01:09 PM   #3
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
growing_older's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,608
In technology, there is similar age bias. Individual contributors are strongly preferred who are no older than their early 30's and supervisors and managers no older than their early 40's. Forty year old software engineers and fifty year old managers face considerable age discrimination. It would be very unusual to find working software engineers in their 60's, 70's and 80's, despite the article's example of Warren Buffet working in his 80s. Perhaps managerial or founder/ownership workers can continue to work at older ages, but this doesn't seem like a realistic plan for most people.
__________________
growing_older is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2014, 01:12 PM   #4
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 920
Yup, as a software dev if I wasn't planning on retiring early I'd be a lot more concerned about maintaining career momentum into my 50s and 60s. I assume I'd have sucked it up and not fought management roles as hard as I have.

I guess other option would be:

__________________
tuixiu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2014, 01:37 PM   #5
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 728
Everyone should do what they enjoy......some want ER and others are like Warren Buffet. Ronald Reagan didn't become President until he was 70........he certainly enjoyed being President more than ER. I call people that work and hate their jobs having "golden handcuffs" and those individuals should look forward to getting out as young as possible. Other jobs, the individual becomes a coach and mentor.....that's probably what Warren Buffet thinks of himself. And, if you've made a lot of money, you have a new job as you get older......managing your money, creating trusts to manage it when you're still here and after you're gone. None of these choices are right for everyone. My Dad was a blue collar tradesman.....his physical work was too demanding for anyone the age of Warren Buffet...Megacorp needs a combination of Coaches and younger "game changers".....look at what the internet, smart phones and social media has done to change our lives compared to 10 years ago......and, all of this has changed how we invest, how we buy retail goods and how and where we work from. My goal isn't to keep on working....my goal is to keep on enjoying life.....and that means being busy every day.....for me it means managing investments, coaching others, charitable work, some travel and setting up trusts for myself, DW and my kids.......it's all good, I'm very lucky.
__________________
jerome len is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2014, 01:42 PM   #6
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 152
Check out the BLS Civilian labor force participation rates by age since 1992

Civilian labor force participation rates by age, sex, race, and ethnicity

and how the rate has increased for age 55 and older.

I see the influence of fewer DB pensions and the lack of retirement saving.
__________________
user5027 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2014, 01:46 PM   #7
Full time employment: Posting here.
CaliforniaMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: San Diego
Posts: 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eagle43 View Post
The Economist exhorts us to keep on working because it's good for the world's economy. The magazine tells us the ageing population will cause a world economic slowdown. They laud Warren Buffet, who is 83, still working, as a good example. This article also claims that educated agers make better salaries, and that there is a growing divide between the educated and the blue collar worker. Further, we are living longer and this divide puts a huge strain on government because seniors vote. I suppose most of us who are FIRED would not be praised by this magazine. I know I could easily be identified as a deadbeat granddad. Anyway, here's a link, if interested.

Global ageing: A billion shades of grey | The Economist

If the link balks, it's from the April 26th print edition, entitled "A billion shades of Grey".

Sent from my AT100 using Early Retirement Forum mobile app
What struck me was this quote:

"Politicians need to convince less-skilled older voters that it is in their interests to go on working" Bolding mine. Yes it will be difficult to convince them of that! Better for the economy maybe, but better for them? I think a much better approach would be promoting saving and investing.

I think what a lot of these economists miss is that there are actually very few people required to manufacture everything in the world, or to grow everything we eat. Maybe three factories are actually necessary to turn out 100% of the worlds printers, same for disk drives, and the efficiency in man hours is increasing at a rapid rate. Investment and automation are the key to prosperity in the future, not having more older workers. The problem then is in the equitable distribution of wealth, and that requires that workers save during their working years, so that the automation pays off for them in the future. That is what politicians need to be convincing people, not to work until death.
__________________
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily,
Life is but a dream.
CaliforniaMan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2014, 02:16 PM   #8
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,629
Quote:
Originally Posted by travelover View Post
In MegaMotor's corporate culture, you were considered over the hill at 40 and past retirement age at 55. I'll never apologize for getting the heck outta Dodge City.
Ditto in health care as MegaCorp (& big gov't) mentality takes over the system. Articles bemoan the coming shortages of docs & nurses. Yet increasing bureaucratic overhead & gov't over-regulation, along with the negative career consequences to those foolish enough to speak against it, are causing more & more to FIRE at what should be the peak of their careers (experience, technical skills, etc.).
__________________
ERhoosier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2014, 12:31 AM   #9
Dryer sheet wannabe
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Gainesville
Posts: 10
I don't work to help the worlds economy, I work to pay my bills. My job is not to maintain the world's economy. That's a crazy philosophy. Plus, because you have a job doesn't mean you're helping the world. Plenty of businesses are horribly immoral, so that's kind of a moot point. Besides, if you have enough money to buy all the things you're interested in buying, what's the point of dedicating your life to getting more of it? That's such a roundabout way of viewing jobs and such.
__________________
LendingWire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2014, 06:30 AM   #10
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
target2019's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,705
The article's main point is that stratification of skilled versus unskilled older workers is a concern. Skilled workers continue to work while unskilled exit the workforce. The unskilled retiree sees buying power erode, and becomes an increasing burden on society. Skilled worker accumulates wealth and stratification increases.

There are many questions to answer. Most get into politics, so I'll refrain from going deeper.
__________________
target2019 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2014, 07:26 AM   #11
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
donheff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 8,638
I'm not ever going back but, for those of you who would consider it, the market should eventually tell us whether the Economist is right - that will be when we start seeing geezer sign up bonuses.
__________________
Every man is, or hopes to be, an Idler. -- Samuel Johnson
donheff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2014, 07:49 AM   #12
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
growing_older's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,608
Whether the Economist is right or wrong, here's an article from Yahoo that says workers ARE working longer and that is hurting the economy because younger workers cannot find jobs. If it's bad for the economy if I work, and it's bad for the economy if I don't work, then I will want to pick "don't work" and just ER.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/averag...092355467.html
__________________
growing_older is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2014, 07:55 AM   #13
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
REWahoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Texas Hill Country
Posts: 42,076
Quote:
Originally Posted by growing_older View Post
Whether the Economist is right or wrong, here's an article from Yahoo that says workers ARE working longer and that is hurting the economy because younger workers cannot find jobs.
Hey, waitaminnit!

How can that be the case when a few years ago...

Labor Market 2000: Prospects Good; Worker Shortage Looms | AccountingWEB

Quote:
Do the math: based on the strong economy, the Foundation predicts 18 million new jobs will be created before 2010, and through attrition, 24 million more workers who retire or die will need to be replaced by others.

The labor shortage may be as many as 5 million workers...
Once again, the trouble with predicting the future is future unpredictability.
__________________
Numbers is hard

When I hit 70, it hit back

Retired in 2005 at age 58, no pension
REWahoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2014, 08:22 AM   #14
Full time employment: Posting here.
CaliforniaMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: San Diego
Posts: 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by REWahoo View Post
...
Once again, the trouble with predicting the future is future unpredictability.
+1
__________________
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily,
Life is but a dream.
CaliforniaMan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2014, 08:38 AM   #15
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: San Jose
Posts: 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by growing_older View Post
In technology, there is similar age bias. Individual contributors are strongly preferred who are no older than their early 30's and supervisors and managers no older than their early 40's. Forty year old software engineers and fifty year old managers face considerable age discrimination. It would be very unusual to find working software engineers in their 60's, 70's and 80's, despite the article's example of Warren Buffet working in his 80s. Perhaps managerial or founder/ownership workers can continue to work at older ages, but this doesn't seem like a realistic plan for most people.
I was stunned as you probably would have been when my buyout application last year was denied on the basis of my skills being crucial to the business. I'm one of those 50 year old software engineers who works in an area where things are changing so rapidly that I've given up trying to stay up to date. I thought I was doing these guys a favor by volunteering to get out, but no such luck. I'm far from the oldest in my lab, sitting at nearby benches are guys in their 60s who have worked 40+ years. We're all "individual contributor" engineers, where I work it's the managers who don't stay past 60.

It's not like my company has anything against the younger generation, our new hires out of college have been true stars who do excellent work, it's just that they're difficult to hang on to. We old farts aren't actively recruited by Google and Apple, while the young guns are willing to jump for no raise, just the prestige factor. Another area where gray hair seems to be a significant asset is in our customer service engineering jobs. We sell a lot to the big names and we've found that the combination of breadth of experience and people skills that are critical for this role happens to favor our older workers. That's a department where I'm still too young to enlist.

It's not all roses for us, our older workers rarely get promotions and our raises tend to be smaller. But those of us who are FI don't mind because the difference is rounding error (and even after generous raises our youngsters can barely cover food after making their mortgage payments). Much more important are interest in the work, respect from our colleagues, and lack of distraction from health or family issues. None of my co-workers in my age cohort is here because we need the income, so admittedly staying this long wasn't in the career plan for any of us.
__________________
dunkelblau is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2014, 11:10 AM   #16
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: San Jose
Posts: 607
In all seriousness...screw that article.

I'm not working "just because" some idiots are either jealous, or think they can invoke some sense of duty in me that working is for the greater good.

If they want, they can work double to make up for me, while I sit on a beach somewhere. I'll raise a margarita in their honor if it makes them feel any better. Hell, I'll even raise two.
__________________
LoneAspen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2014, 11:16 AM   #17
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
REWahoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Texas Hill Country
Posts: 42,076
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoneAspen View Post
If they want, they can work double to make up for me, while I sit on a beach somewhere. I'll raise a margarita in their honor if it makes them feel any better. Hell, I'll even raise two.
Make that three...
__________________
Numbers is hard

When I hit 70, it hit back

Retired in 2005 at age 58, no pension
REWahoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2014, 12:59 PM   #18
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
robnplunder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Bay Area
Posts: 2,124
I can't help think that capitalism thrives on economy expansion, and economy expansion is fueled by population growth. The good (?) news is that we got 7 billion of us living on earth now and it will be 8 Billion in 10 years, give or take a few years. They all have to drink Coca Cola, eat at McDonalds, and drive Hyundai. The bad news is, there are NOT enough jobs to go around for the mass. I will do my part and give up my job in a year, drink Coca Cola, eat McCheese, and drive Hyundai. That will be my contribution to economy.
__________________
Pura Vida
robnplunder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2014, 01:56 PM   #19
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,356
That quote really didn't make sense to me. From a societal standpoint, it is probably better if skilled workers keep working as long as possible while the unskilled workers retire as soon as possible.

In general, there is a glut of unskilled labor. Overall production will not be reduced if an older unskilled worker retires and is replaced by a younger unskilled worker. We're probably better off because we are able to get that younger worker into the workforce.

On the other hand, there are shortages in some skilled positions that may actually be constraining production. It makes no sense to encourage those people to retire if they may be very hard to replace.


Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliforniaMan View Post
What struck me was this quote:

"Politicians need to convince less-skilled older voters that it is in their interests to go on working" Bolding mine. Yes it will be difficult to convince them of that! Better for the economy maybe, but better for them? I think a much better approach would be promoting saving and investing.

I think what a lot of these economists miss is that there are actually very few people required to manufacture everything in the world, or to grow everything we eat. Maybe three factories are actually necessary to turn out 100% of the worlds printers, same for disk drives, and the efficiency in man hours is increasing at a rapid rate. Investment and automation are the key to prosperity in the future, not having more older workers. The problem then is in the equitable distribution of wealth, and that requires that workers save during their working years, so that the automation pays off for them in the future. That is what politicians need to be convincing people, not to work until death.
__________________
Hamlet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2014, 03:17 PM   #20
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,697
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eagle43 View Post
The Economist exhorts us to keep on working because it's good for the world's economy.
I'm sure the world's economy would recognize my contribution and put it on my tombstone. Screw the world's economy, I'm going out on my boat!
__________________

__________________
Living well is the best revenge!
Retired @ 52 in 2005
marko is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
What to keep in after-tax and what to keep in tax advantaged? LakeTravis FIRE and Money 5 10-23-2013 07:04 AM
"Many Plan to Keep Working Into Retirement" article wildcat Other topics 6 08-17-2005 07:49 PM
"Should you keep working?" Nords Young Dreamers 2 06-20-2005 01:56 PM
New retirement plan - keep working! laurence Life after FIRE 31 03-16-2005 06:20 AM
Keep on working? FunGoals Other topics 17 02-01-2005 07:47 AM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:57 PM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.