Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Re: Keeping up with the Joneses
Old 12-11-2005, 08:05 AM   #21
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
REWahoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Texas Hill Country
Posts: 42,149
Re: Keeping up with the Joneses

Quote:
Originally Posted by HaHa
My belief is that truly early retirement is only a good choice for oddballs, misfits, adventure travelers (including sexual adventure), sportsmen, and intellectuals.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martha
I am inclined to agree with this. This might also explain the mystery of why some spouses are still working when the family clearly has enough assets for them to retire early.
So, Martha, which category does Greg fall into? Let me guess....

__________________

__________________
Numbers is hard

When I hit 70, it hit back

Retired in 2005 at age 58, no pension
REWahoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Re: Keeping up with the Joneses
Old 12-11-2005, 08:59 AM   #22
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Gone4Good's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 5,381
Re: Keeping up with the Joneses

Quote:
Originally Posted by Martha
As time goes by for the very early retirees, the difference with the Jones may increase as worker's income outpaces inflation.* Retirees are generally happy keeping up with inflation. Are you going to want the new and amazing stuff that is invented 20 years from now?* Did you imagine having your cell phones, computers, and HDTV 20-30 years ago?* How about those new and amazing medical treatments?
I think this is what gives me pause. It is especially worrisome for someone thinking about retiring at, or around, 40 as I am. For this reason it may make sense to strive for a lower initial withdrawal rate to allow for some income growth above inflation.
__________________

__________________
Retired early, traveling perpetually.
Gone4Good is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Keeping up with the Joneses
Old 12-11-2005, 09:04 AM   #23
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Eagle43's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: DFW
Posts: 1,883
Re: Keeping up with the Joneses

My rule is no debt. No living paycheck to paycheck. Been there, done that, and although it was decades ago, I don't want to return. I know people in debt, hopelessly in debt, whose every intention is to keep up. *It's sad to see them so desperate, but they will not consider lowering their lifestyle. *I have never wanted to keep up with the Jones; not even Jerry Jones!* That usually leads to despair and a lose-lose outcome.* OTOH, it probably drives the economy, so please be my guest.


__________________
Resist much. Obey Little. . . . Ed Abbey

Disclaimer: My Posts are for my amusement only.
Eagle43 is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Keeping up with the Joneses
Old 12-11-2005, 09:26 AM   #24
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 3,875
Re: Keeping up with the Joneses

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eagle43
My rule is no debt.* No living paycheck to paycheck.* Been there, done that, and although it was decades ago, I don't want to return.* I know people in debt, hopelessly in debt, whose every intention is to keep up. *It's sad to see them so desperate, but they will not consider lowering their lifestyle. *I have never wanted to keep up with the Jones; not even Jerry Jones!* That usually leads to despair and a lose-lose outcome.* OTOH, it probably drives the economy, so please be my guest.


Hello. Wish I was in Texas right now, although it's pretty here this morning.

"No debt" is my rule also, but I make a couple of exceptions.

1. A reverse mortgage when and if I need it.

2. If I can borrow money, reinvest it and pocket the spread.

Otherwise, like you, I try to stay far away.

There is no doubt that it "drives the economy".

JG
__________________
MRGALT2U is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Keeping up with the Joneses
Old 12-11-2005, 09:31 AM   #25
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 3,875
Re: Keeping up with the Joneses

Quote:
Originally Posted by Martha
This is a most excellent thread.*

As time goes by for the very early retirees, the difference with the Jones may increase as worker's income outpaces inflation.* Retirees are generally happy keeping up with inflation. Are you going to want the new and amazing stuff that is invented 20 years from now?* Did you imagine having your cell phones, computers, and HDTV 20-30 years ago?* How about those new and amazing medical treatments?



I am inclined to agree with this.* This might also explain the mystery of why some spouses are still working when the family clearly has enough assets for them to retire early.* *
I agree with Martha,. "excellent thread".

Being a closet Luddite, I can live quite easily without a cell phone, computer
or HDTV, or even some of the medical "advances" , which in some cases
I am not too sure are really "advances". I can also live quite easily
without a lot of the stuff we already own. This is a huge advantage in
making ER work IMHO.

JG

__________________
MRGALT2U is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Keeping up with the Joneses
Old 12-11-2005, 10:35 AM   #26
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
ladelfina's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,713
Re: Keeping up with the Joneses

Mr.Galt and others are right about the dubious nature of "new and amazing stuff". Almost all of it is designed not to improve your direct comfort, but to show off your buying prowess.

Back at MIT in the late 70s the toy to have was a CD player ($1000 in 1970s dollars, too). Now you can get one for what? $20, $30, $50?

I would laugh up my sleeve at the Joneses running out to Best Buy to buy a 50" HDTV for a "low monthly payment". I merely chuckle at those who'd pay cash for it. At a certain point in your life, you just do not need these things. I'm only in my forties and already I sound like an old fart.

As far as health care is concerned, I remember someone telling me several years back about an Economist article that said all the increased spending and new high-tech developments in health care in the 20th c. accounted for a miniscule percentage in improved health and longevity, and that better nutrition and sanitation (cheap, low-tech) were responsible for the lion's share.

My luxuries?
A fur coat (hand-me-down from my mom). Great in winter, and in Italy no one throws paint at you for wearing fur.
A down comforter.
Expensive pots & pans for slow-cooking those beans & lentils (cook more evenly and they're less likely to burn).
A smallish, oldish Honda CRV for those muddy back roads and to haul firewood and the dog.
A 'detached' house with a yard (in Italy most everyone lives in apartments).
Satellite TV and DSL to keep up with American culture, for better or for worse.

When someone shows me their latest cell-phone, or Blackberry, or PDA, or PlayStation I just feel sad for them. There should be technology clinics like they have methadone clinics, to wean people off of this stuff.*


And talk about being a Luddite.. I was just in CT visiting my sister who just bought a house with a fridge that has (gasp!) an in-the-door ice dispenser! Man, do I love that thing! I know they're extremely common and have been around for years, but we just never had one, nor did I ever know anyone before who had one (small NE kitchens prob. to blame rather than lack of funds).

But still I don't need it.
I could get one here for 1800 EUROS if I wanted it*

You may not have control over inflation, but you do have control over your own personal inflationary impluses.
__________________
ladelfina is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Keeping up with the Joneses
Old 12-11-2005, 11:01 AM   #27
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
grumpy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,321
Re: Keeping up with the Joneses

In our case we got to ER by living WAY below our means. Now that we no longer have to accumulate assets, we find the living WITHIN our means provides a more affluent life style than we had before ER. We still can't completely shake the LBYM attitudes but we really appreciate the things we can now afford that we used to consider luxuries. Since we already feel like we can have what we want we feel no temptation to try to live up to others' standards. It's just that what we want does not include a lot of the things that other people feel are essential and that they deserve.

Grumpy
__________________
...you can check out any time you like, but you can never leave...
grumpy is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Keeping up with the Joneses
Old 12-11-2005, 12:09 PM   #28
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
haha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Hooverville
Posts: 22,387
Re: Keeping up with the Joneses

Quote:
Originally Posted by Martha
I am inclined to agree with this.* This might also explain the mystery of why some spouses are still working when the family clearly has enough assets for them to retire early.* *


Ha
__________________
"As a general rule, the more dangerous or inappropriate a conversation, the more interesting it is."-Scott Adams
haha is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Keeping up with the Joneses
Old 12-11-2005, 12:41 PM   #29
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: In the fog of San Francisco
Posts: 241
Re: Keeping up with the Joneses

There's nothing inherently wrong with keeping up with technology.

But, it often doesn't pay to be an "early adopter". Wait a bit until the bugs get worked out and the prices come down. Then shoot for about the 80th percentile on your purchase.

That saves you from buying new tech at high prices, only see even better stuff come out in the next generation for less money. If you go for 80% you'll get something pretty nice, and you'll probably have no trouble with it lasting for 5 or more years.

In fact, that might be a better way to plan the purchase: "what should I get so that I'll have no problems with being satisfied with it for a minimum of 5 years while technology marches on?"

With computers I generally prefer to skip two generations between purchases. That way when you get a new system you are likely to see a pretty big performance jump. And of course, the prices keep dropping on the technology. I generally spend about the same money each time I upgrade, but what the money gets tends to increase.

I think it is also good to plan ahead and get the major purchases that you are sure that you want done and paid for before you RE. That way, if you find that the finances are squeeking a bit from the pressure you can delay RE a little until the bank account is feeling more comfortable. This may not be a concern for many people, but if you have a hobby that can absorb some serious amounts of money you want to tool up for that hobby while you can comfortably afford to spend, rather than finding your hobby being held back for lack of infrastructure after you've RE'd.

cheers,
Michael
__________________
Michael Moore is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Keeping up with the Joneses
Old 12-11-2005, 02:10 PM   #30
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 152
Re: Keeping up with the Joneses

Ah I think it will be very easy to outpace inflation and surpass the joneses

Heres what would have happend had you invested 1million in Vanguards Wellesley in 1990 and only withdrew 3% of the dividends/interested. Also invested the rest of the dividends, should there be more.

Your yearly SPENDING money:
2004 $83,896.92
2003 $79,883.90
2002 $74,758.57
$73,214.53
$69,437.20
$61,857.54
$66,499.90
$60,427.74
$51,512.87
$47,770.00
$38,260.03
$41,154.67
$36,565.25
$34,038.73
$28,713.00


Also you would end up having $2,796,564.04 invested at the end of 2004.. THis all from an extremely conservative fund!

__________________
trixs is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Keeping up with the Joneses
Old 12-11-2005, 03:55 PM   #31
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Keeping up with the Joneses

Trixs -- not to be a wet blanket ( I love the Spanish word "aguafiesta") but . . . we may not see a market like this again anytime soon.* Would be interesting to know what FireCalc says for other time periods of the same duration.
__________________
  Reply With Quote
Re: Keeping up with the Joneses
Old 12-11-2005, 06:02 PM   #32
Moderator Emeritus
Nords's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Oahu
Posts: 26,620
Re: Keeping up with the Joneses

Quote:
Originally Posted by Martha
I am inclined to agree with this.* This might also explain the mystery of why some spouses are still working when the family clearly has enough assets for them to retire early.* *
It would certainly explain why they married us in the first place!
__________________
*
*

The book written on E-R.org, "The Military Guide to Financial Independence and Retirement", on sale now! For more info see "About Me" in my profile.
I don't spend much time here anymore, so please send me a PM. Thanks.
Nords is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Keeping up with the Joneses
Old 12-12-2005, 07:23 AM   #33
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Jay_Gatsby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,719
Re: Keeping up with the Joneses

Notwithstanding my various posts to this board, I must admit a strong desire, not to keep up with the Joneses, but to at least appear "successful". Living in Washington, D.C., the pressure to appear successful is rather extreme, particularly in the professional circles to which I belong. Being in my mid-30s and a lawyer creates an expectation on the part of colleagues and professional acquaintences to demonstrate some modicum of financial wherewithal, primarily in the form of a nice house (single-family home in the 2,000+ sq ft range) in a good neighborhood, a near-luxury sedan (Lexus, Acura, Mercedes, BMW, etc...), a well-fitting wardrobe of high-quality clothing, and weekends of entertaining colleagues at home or at higher-class restaurants. Those individuals in Washington, D.C. who I've met that don't have or do those things are looked down upon as not being as successful as those who do.

Consequently, I wonder whether buying/doing some (but perhaps not all) of the foregoing would be a worthwhile "investment" in my future. As they always say, you only get one chance to make a first impression
__________________
He had one of those rare smiles with a quality of eternal reassurance in it . . . It faced, or seemed to face, the whole external world for an instant and then concentrated on you with an irresistible prejudice in your favor. -- The Great Gatsby, F. Scott Fitzgerald
Jay_Gatsby is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Keeping up with the Joneses
Old 12-12-2005, 08:18 AM   #34
Moderator Emeritus
Martha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: minnesota
Posts: 13,212
Re: Keeping up with the Joneses

Jay, get the nice suit at most and forget the rest.

Develope a reputation as a "character." I know a number of very wealthy people who drive old cars and live very modestly. They might come into our office in ratty jeans and Sorrel boots, yet have a 100 million net worth.

I know a lawyer in the same line of work as you. He works for 3M and used to be a shareholder in a major firm. He has always dressed kind of shabby, his hair is kind of wild. He successfully has become a character. And I think he and his wife's net worth is pretty healthy.
__________________
.


No more lawyer stuff, no more political stuff, so no more CYA

Martha is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Keeping up with the Joneses
Old 12-12-2005, 08:28 AM   #35
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Jay_Gatsby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,719
Re: Keeping up with the Joneses

Quote:
Originally Posted by Martha
Jay, get the nice suit at most and forget the rest.*

Develope a reputation as a "character."* I know a number of very wealthy people who drive old cars and live very modestly.* They might come into our office in ratty jeans and Sorrel boots, yet have a 100 million net worth.*

I know a lawyer in the same line of work as you.* He works for 3M and used to be a shareholder in a major firm.* He has always dressed kind of shabby, his hair is kind of wild.* He successfully has become a character.* And I think he and his wife's net worth is pretty healthy.
What you describe might be deemed a "caricature" rather than a "character". Nonetheless, you're probably right when it comes to clothes and first impressions.
__________________
He had one of those rare smiles with a quality of eternal reassurance in it . . . It faced, or seemed to face, the whole external world for an instant and then concentrated on you with an irresistible prejudice in your favor. -- The Great Gatsby, F. Scott Fitzgerald
Jay_Gatsby is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Keeping up with the Joneses
Old 12-12-2005, 08:54 AM   #36
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 7,409
Re: Keeping up with the Joneses

Re Max in MO - didn't believe me when I walked in in my flip flops, Jimmy Buffett shirt and cutoffs - said I was a refugee from LA and wanted to buy a house.

They also got a little upset - when I told them - I didn't want to look at it - given my RE judgement - I had a 'step daughter in spare room' type with a cam walker who worked a great deal of construction in her 'healthy' prior life and would pick the 'proper digs'.

They seemed to think that qualified me as a character.

For the life of me - I can't imagine why.
__________________
unclemick is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Keeping up with the Joneses
Old 12-12-2005, 01:08 PM   #37
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Eagle43's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: DFW
Posts: 1,883
Re: Keeping up with the Joneses

UncleM, you funny!* They gonna run you off.* *
__________________
Resist much. Obey Little. . . . Ed Abbey

Disclaimer: My Posts are for my amusement only.
Eagle43 is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Keeping up with the Joneses
Old 12-12-2005, 01:20 PM   #38
Moderator Emeritus
Nords's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Oahu
Posts: 26,620
Re: Keeping up with the Joneses

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay_Gatsby
What you describe might be deemed a "caricature" rather than a "character".* Nonetheless, you're probably right when it comes to clothes and first impressions.
Bob Dylan & Jack Nicholson have been run out of many fine establishments... eventually to everyone's regret.
__________________
*
*

The book written on E-R.org, "The Military Guide to Financial Independence and Retirement", on sale now! For more info see "About Me" in my profile.
I don't spend much time here anymore, so please send me a PM. Thanks.
Nords is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Keeping up with the Joneses
Old 12-12-2005, 07:33 PM   #39
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
haha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Hooverville
Posts: 22,387
Re: Keeping up with the Joneses

Quote:
Originally Posted by trixs
Ah I think it will be very easy to outpace inflation and surpass the joneses

Heres what would have happend had you ....


Ha
__________________
"As a general rule, the more dangerous or inappropriate a conversation, the more interesting it is."-Scott Adams
haha is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Keeping up with the Joneses
Old 03-13-2006, 11:22 AM   #40
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Jay_Gatsby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,719
Re: Keeping up with the Joneses

Figured I'd ressurect and old thread based on a personal finance blog entry I recently read:

http://www.everybodylovesyourmoney.com/?p=204

The most poignant sentence of the blog entry to me was:

"When others offer their input, itís really just them putting their nose where it doesnít belong."

The author makes a valid point. When someone else criticizes your saving habits, even if s/he is well-meaning in advising you to "live a little", that's putting one's nose where it doesn't belong. If I considered spending my money to be "living a little", then I would do so. Clearly I don't.
__________________

__________________
He had one of those rare smiles with a quality of eternal reassurance in it . . . It faced, or seemed to face, the whole external world for an instant and then concentrated on you with an irresistible prejudice in your favor. -- The Great Gatsby, F. Scott Fitzgerald
Jay_Gatsby is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Keeping Disability Insurance ? joesxm3 Health and Early Retirement 6 04-23-2007 06:59 PM
Keeping Track Of What Warren, George, And Other Gurus Are Doing Danny FIRE and Money 2 12-06-2006 09:37 AM
Keeping old documents Michael Moore FIRE and Money 17 06-11-2006 03:00 PM
Keeping Old Statements? BigMoneyJim FIRE and Money 9 05-12-2006 06:43 PM
Keeping your focus MRGALT2U Other topics 3 01-24-2003 11:58 AM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:01 AM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.