Kids college: Let them pay?

[youbet]

I only scanned some of the pages of this thread, so please excuse me if I missed it, but I note little mention of co-op programs. When I was managing engineers at MegaCorp (back in the day!), I had great luck with kids who were full co-op participants (NOT just summer interns). And I understand the pay can be very good too since by their 2nd or 3rd working semester, they're doing junior engineer work on the job instead of waiting tables or mowing lawns.

[MichaelB]

For finding a job and getting ahead, I think for the vast majority of students graduating from college, skill set is more important than which college. This is probably the biggest change compared with previous generations. Students without specialized or high demand skills are at a significant disadvantage in the job market.

For this reason, I also think many parents and students do not choose well and also spend too much on college.

[Amethyst]

Could not agree more. It's perfectly possible to instill a sense of responsibility, without a hair shirt to go with it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NW-Bound My children had it a lot easier than I did, but there was no reason to make them suffer like I did.

[sengsational]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MichaelB For finding a job and getting ahead, I think for the vast majority of students graduating from college, skill set is more important than which college. This is probably the biggest change compared with previous generations. Students without specialized or high demand skills are at a significant disadvantage in the job market. For this reason, I also think many parents and students do not choose well and also spend too much on college.

I agree with that, and the lifetime earning statistics that I saw bear that out; once you get out in the earning world, it matters a whole lot less where you went to school as opposed to what you've done lately (like having been promoted and/or having had a successive string of jobs that had ever increasing levels of responsibility).

[FlaGator]

Originally Posted by MichaelB
For finding a job and getting ahead, I think for the vast majority of students graduating from college, skill set is more important than which college. This is probably the biggest change compared with previous generations. Students without specialized or high demand skills are at a significant disadvantage in the job market.

For this reason, I also think many parents and students do not choose well and also spend too much on college.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sengsational I agree with that, and the lifetime earning statistics that I saw bear that out; once you get out in the earning world, it matters a whole lot less where you went to school as opposed to what you've done lately (like having been promoted and/or having had a successive string of jobs that had ever increasing levels of responsibility).

I agree wholeheartedly.

In addition, with the exception of specialized fields (i.e., engineering, law, medicine) I believe the specific degree awarded matters less over time. In my case, I worked in my degree field for only 3.5 years before switching to something completely unrelated, and changed careers twice after that (in tangentially related fields) before finding my professional sweet spot in my late 30's.

I may be an exception, but it's one of the reasons I don't get worked up about what my HS senior intends to study as long as she can support her self initially and get the undergrad degree from a low cost state school. And I'm happy to pay for that.

[NW-Bound]

Quote:

Originally Posted by youbet I only scanned some of the pages of this thread, so please excuse me if I missed it, but I note little mention of co-op programs. When I was managing engineers at MegaCorp (back in the day!), I had great luck with kids who were full co-op participants (NOT just summer interns). And I understand the pay can be very good too since by their 2nd or 3rd working semester, they're doing junior engineer work on the job instead of waiting tables or mowing lawns.

I worked part-time when in graduate school, and got paid an engineering salary as I already had my BSEE. The pay was indeed good. It was before the time of the song "The future is so bright I got to wear shades", but the song was appropriate and not in the sarcastic sense.

My daughter did payroll and accounting work while going to school, and obtained good work experience. My son had a tougher time than I did with engineering school, so wanted to have the summers to relax, and I did not push him.

A niece has been doing summer internship while getting a degree in Chemical Engineering. She said competition was fierce, and several of her classmates could not get a summer job despite having good grades.

[NW-Bound]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sengsational ... once you get out in the earning world, it matters a whole lot less where you went to school as opposed to what you've done lately (like having been promoted and/or having had a successive string of jobs that had ever increasing levels of responsibility).

+1

A degree from a prestigious school gets one through the door easier, no doubt about that. But after that, one has got to show what he is capable of, and not all of them do better than graduates of lesser schools.

The above should not be surprising, because admittance to prestigious schools depends on many factors not related to performance, e.g. family and social circumstances, not to mention luck.

[socca]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MichaelB Students without specialized or high demand skills are at a significant disadvantage in the job market. For this reason, I also think many parents and students do not choose well and also spend too much on college.

If I'm not mistaken, there was once a time when the primary reason for going to college was to become a better human being / better citizen. However, this perspective on education was a luxury mostly reserved for the children of the financial elite, whose families could afford to support the children during post-secondary education.

Fast-forwarding to today, is it foolish for a family of modest means to financially support a kid who selects a major without good employment prospects? I don't know. Here are a couple of data points in my extended family:
• a family of immodest means sent their daughter to Sarah Lawrence (one of the most expensive colleges in the U.S.) for a 4-year degree in a "useless" major. Now she's headed to law school.
• a family of modest means (both parents still working middle-class jobs, but they received a substantial inheritance a few years ago), is paying for an apartment in Manhattan so their daughter can attend grad school in a major notorious for lack of job opportunities. Good idea? Don't know, but to be young and beautiful in Manhattan is going to be a helluva ride...

Not to get off-topic, but I wonder if today's typical high school graduate is sufficiently well-educated to take their place as a good citizen in the modern world. If not, then perhaps someday four years of post-secondary education will be publicly funded by taxes just as primary and secondary education are funded today. I'm not suggesting that this is a good idea, but I certainly like the idea of more 'good citizens'.

[MarieIG]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pb4uski Late to the thread. My parents paid for my tuition, room and board... DW's parents contributed what they could but it was not much... she graduated with student loan debt equal to a year or two if tuition, room & board. We decided that we would fund 4 years anywhere they wanted to go. DD went to a good college... they offered her a scholarship (discount) of 20-25% a year... we paid those costs from cash flow. DS has so far decided not to go but we have funds earmarked and I continually tell him that there is funding if he decides to go. My dilemma is if he decides not to go as seems likely, do I somehow use these funds for his benefit or do they revert to the familial pot that he and DD will inherit once we are gone. Still mulling over that question.

When he works, you may want to give him something specifically earmarked for a Roth and/or when he buys his first home, something towards a down
payment. You don't have to give him the money all at once. You will probably want to feel that the money is well spent.

[SecondCor521]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pb4uski DS has so far decided not to go but we have funds earmarked and I continually tell him that there is funding if he decides to go. My dilemma is if he decides not to go as seems likely, do I somehow use these funds for his benefit or do they revert to the familial pot that he and DD will inherit once we are gone. Still mulling over that question.

I'm mulling over a similar hypothetical. My three kids are just starting to head off to college, and they are all choosing good paths for them but each path is quite different and comes with quite different costs.

My tentative solution is to keep track as best I can of what I spent on each of them in education-inflation-adjusted semesters, then distribute the excess to them in inverse proportion. So for example, if kid 1 spent 20% of the total pot, kid 2 spent 50% of the total pot, and kid 3 spent 30% of the total pot, then kid 1 would get (50%/2 + 30%/2) = 40% of the remainder, kid 2 would get (20%/2 + 30%/2) = 25% of the remainder, and kid 3 would get (20%/2 + 50%/2) = 35% of the remainder.

In general, in this way each kid either gets a pricier education and smaller bonus or a less expensive education and larger bonus. Of course, this does assume there will be a remainder.

But my case differs from yours in that I have three kids not 2, and all three of my kids have already used at least some portion of the college funds.

[Badger]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MichaelB ...I also think many parents and students do not choose well and also spend too much on college.

+1
In all my decades of teaching I have seen this all too often with unfortunate results. I watched as many college students spent money on things they wanted as opposed to needed while they borrowed for it and went more in to debt.



Cheers!

[Beer-man]

We are setting up 529’s but minimally funding them. We will let grandparents know about accounts and they will probably assist with funding eventually.
Another tactic I’ve been considering is working as an instructor/teacher part or full time at our local state school. As an employee you are entitled to either you or dependent getting 12 credits a semester fully funded. Our kids are 3yrs apart so that could be a decade’ish of full funding plus a somewhat relaxed job for me

[athena53]

Quote:

Originally Posted by youbet I only scanned some of the pages of this thread, so please excuse me if I missed it, but I note little mention of co-op programs. When I was managing engineers at MegaCorp (back in the day!), I had great luck with kids who were full co-op participants (NOT just summer interns). And I understand the pay can be very good too since by their 2nd or 3rd working semester, they're doing junior engineer work on the job instead of waiting tables or mowing lawns.

Yes, it WAS covered but worth mentioning again. That's how my Dad got through the University of Cincinnati, graduating in 1953. Definitely superior to internships.

[pb4uski]

Another source is corporate tuition assistance plans. Megacorp paid for all of my MBA and we had many employees who attended school at night at company expense (for B's or better).

[Al in Ohio]

My wife and I paid most of our own ways through college, but that was when a college degree at a state school was less than $1000 per year tuition. Now it’s over ten times that. My oldest boy got accepted in a handful of private and state colleges 3 years ago when I kept a spreadsheet. His top 3 private school choices would cost over $240,000 on average after four years. State school was less at under $60,000. This did not include room and board. Can they afford that?

Luckily for my oldest boy he got a full tuition academic scholarship and an extra few grand per semester for room and board. The rest we paid from saved up 529 plan money.

[Osprey]

Quote:

. oes this "superiority of private schools" theory still apply if the state school is also "top tier?" For example, Purdue is ranked in the top ten (when I last looked a few years ago) in mech eng nationally. Would that hold up? Or is it still the kiss of death to have gone to school with the mere mortal plebeians at a public university?

Top tier public schools open many doors. My son graduated from a highly ranked public school engineering program.

[courtjustshan]

I grew up poor, from a poor city, and a poor school district. I paid my own way through school, 2 years at a community college (I can still remember paying my $535 per semester tuition in the early 1980's and thinking it was expensive) and then 2 years (which took 4) at a university. I didn't get any help and I didn't expect any as the first of my family to graduate college. I worked relentlessly through college, paid my way and although it took me awhile (6 years saving/going back cycles), I made it through with my B.S. degree. I felt like Charlie Bucket when he found that last ticket.

I have always said, there are 2 things that people can never take away from you: Your self-respect and your education. Going to school opened my eyes up and I feel that it allowed me to "escape" my circumstances.

I have 3 kids. I decided long ago that although I struggled growing up at the near poverty level and scraping my way through, that I didn't want to see my kids do the same. My first child went to an expensive private school, but was gifted academically which made the cost about the same as a state school.

Life took a turn for me near the end of her schooling when I decided to leave MegaCorp early. I ended up getting a job in a highly respected public university, and my daughter decided to take a gap year between her junior and senior year as she needed a break. I was thankful for that as my new lower income was allowed to "catch up" to the FASFA which about a 25K difference in her final year to the good.

My middle child received free tuition from my employer as well as my youngest. My son graduated and is working for a top bank and my oldest is working in memory research at another university. My youngest is still in college. I have learned a bunch from working for a university, it is nothing like a company.

All in all, I learned a great deal working for a university. I also look back to where I started from, and am relieved that my kids have no student loan debt and bright futures. They are buying houses and getting married whereas I was still scratching and clawing at that same age. While I think there was benefit in the struggle, I also know that they know how hard life was for me and really believe they appreciated all the help. They have been all over the world, they are outgoing, independent and hard working. My oldest graduated in 5 years (with a gap year), my middle graduated in 3.5, and my youngest will make it out in 4.

[Rianne]

Quote:

Originally Posted by courtjustshan I grew up poor, from a poor city, and a poor school district. I paid my own way through school, 2 years at a community college (I can still remember paying my $535 per semester tuition in the early 1980's and thinking it was expensive) and then 2 years (which took 4) at a university. I didn't get any help and I didn't expect any as the first of my family to graduate college. I worked relentlessly through college, paid my way and although it took me awhile (6 years saving/going back cycles), I made it through with my B.S. degree. I felt like Charlie Bucket when he found that last ticket. I have always said, there are 2 things that people can never take away from you: Your self-respect and your education. Going to school opened my eyes up and I feel that it allowed me to "escape" my circumstances. I have 3 kids. I decided long ago that although I struggled growing up at the near poverty level and scraping my way through, that I didn't want to see my kids do the same. My first child went to an expensive private school, but was gifted academically which made the cost about the same as a state school. Life took a turn for me near the end of her schooling when I decided to leave MegaCorp early. I ended up getting a job in a highly respected public university, and my daughter decided to take a gap year between her junior and senior year as she needed a break. I was thankful for that as my new lower income was allowed to "catch up" to the FASFA which about a 25K difference in her final year to the good. My middle child received free tuition from my employer as well as my youngest. My son graduated and is working for a top bank and my oldest is working in memory research at another university. My youngest is still in college. I have learned a bunch from working for a university, it is nothing like a company. All in all, I learned a great deal working for a university. I also look back to where I started from, and am relieved that my kids have no student loan debt and bright futures. They are buying houses and getting married whereas I was still scratching and clawing at that same age. While I think there was benefit in the struggle, I also know that they know how hard life was for me and really believe they appreciated all the help. They have been all over the world, they are outgoing, independent and hard working. My oldest graduated in 5 years (with a gap year), my middle graduated in 3.5, and my youngest will make it out in 4.

That's a great story and a successful one! I agree education and self-respect very important. I do believe young people have unique talents and should grow those talents. There is nothing wrong with a trade school. Learning about crafts such as carpentry, car engines, plumbing or other trades that traditional college or universities do not offer. I don't have kids but I would encourage them to have enough self respect to realize education is not just about book learning. Explore all the options. Sometimes it seems there's pressure to go to a 4 yr university for an education.

[daylatedollarshort]

We used Payscale reports by college and major and The Job Outlook Handbook for our kids to make sure they were going into careers where they could be self supporting from good ROI schools. Now there is also the College Scorecard which is a good resource on gradation rates, college costs and salary info 10 years post college -

https://collegescorecard.ed.gov/

It seemed to us from looking at the reports when our kids were deciding where to go to school and what to major in that major was really the biggest factor in post college earnings, rather than school choice. As an example, according to College Scorecard, the 10 year median earnings from one of the most expensive schools in our area ($50K in tuition alone), for students who received financial aid is $85K, while the senior software engineer salary, including those from pubic schools (~$8K tuition), with 8 - 10 years experience in the same local area is $157K.

[The Cosmic Avenger]

My partner's parents paid their whole freight, they graduated with no debt. My parents paid what they could, but I graduated with a lot of debt. Thankfully, we're both LBYM types, and we paid off my student loans way ahead of schedule. Now we're going to pay our kid's tuition wherever they choose to go. We should be able to tighten our belts and pay cash for four years anywhere, and if we have to take out loans we'll pay them for the kid.

I know it will be appreciated and not squandered because the kid (16, entering junior year in HS) recently said "is it weird to be thinking about retirement at 16?"