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Old 08-05-2008, 09:03 AM   #21
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Easy to talk smart when you don't have any..........
So you're saying I was smart by not having any?

For the sake of posterity, we decided not to have kids and I disconnected the plumbing long before we even though about saving for retirement. Just imagine if there was a little me running around though. The terror!
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Old 08-05-2008, 09:12 AM   #22
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Very well. "Harry Potter and the Annuity Of Doom"...
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Old 08-05-2008, 09:23 AM   #23
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So you're saying I was smart by not having any?
No, I just laugh when folks with no kids provide insight into what it means to have them. It's kind of like when your son is coached in Little League by a guy who NEVER picked up a baseball before............
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Old 08-05-2008, 09:25 AM   #24
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No, I just laugh when folks with no kids provide insight into what it means to have them. It's kind of like when your son is coached in Little League by a guy who NEVER picked up a baseball before............
Don't worry, I don't honestly think he'd be able to send them back for a refund. At the very least, they'd be considered an open box item and he'd have to pay some sort of restocking fee.
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Old 08-05-2008, 09:31 AM   #25
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Don't worry, I don't honestly think he'd be able to send them back for a refund. At the very least, they'd be considered an open box item and he'd have to pay some sort of restocking fee.
You are killin' me........I'm going to take my 6-year old to Best Buy and try that!!

Actually, the kid is getting scary, he can beat my wife and his uncle at chess, and my best friend who was on the chess team in high school says he has to think carefully or my son will beat him.........
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Old 08-05-2008, 09:34 AM   #26
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I could have never guessed this thread would have taken its current direction so fast..

This is like an annuity discussion. You know where its going to go but you just have to watch
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Old 08-05-2008, 09:37 AM   #27
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so, what's your number? what's the suggested number of kids to have? how much extra can you invest with just one kid? do you feel missed out by just having one child? does the extra loves from having 3,4 or more kids worth the extra 5-10 years of working life?
Been a while since we've had this discussion, but we generally conclude that it's far more of an emotional decision (to have or to have not) than a financial decision.

IMO money has little bearing on the situation. You immediately know when your family's the right size. Unless you have multiples-- then it's also possible to immediately know when you've overshot the mark. Just coping with our first convinced us that a second was out of the question.

I wasn't aware that having fewer kids would free up more investment money! Just kidding-- you should be saving an extra $2533.45 per year per child. Nope, still kidding.

Seriously, though, I think that the first kid forces most parents to grow up and start thinking about retirement, maybe even ER. The second kid forces most parents to think about budgeting & saving. The third & subsequent kids spawn truly creative & frugal-minded lifestyles, so it's not a linear equation. The result may be that having more kids might actually be better for encouraging ER.
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Old 08-05-2008, 09:40 AM   #28
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I was reading "Spend 'Til the end" by Burns and Kotlikoff, who note in the book that people w/ kids get used to a lower standard of living. Therefore, having kids may actually promote LBYM. My rather unscientific sample of my parents/uncle/in laws [who had kids] and my uncle + aunt [who didn't] suggests this is true.

Interestingly enough, while my 2 kids have cost me money, they made up for it in other ways. For example, I'm now much more social, am much more pateint, am able to have much more clear expectations for others, am better able to organize and lead, am able to communicate better and explain myself better, etc. In addition to making me a better father, most of this makes me a much better husband, son, coworker, supervisor, neighbor, etc.

My mom, a pediatric RN, told me that at a recent conference a presenter said that his research showed that kids are only compliant 50-60% of the time. After which I'm sure all the parents in the room said "No s**t Sherlock!" I wonder if that is 50-60% of the time with the parents, or with others. My kids are angels with other adults, but then lose it when they get home.

- Alec

ps - if you want to know what your kids are going to be like, ask your parents what you were like as a child. This is a good reason your parents are so good with your children - they've been dealing with you your whole life.
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Old 08-05-2008, 09:42 AM   #29
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Kids = expense. I don't have any children so maybe I don't know what I'm talking about. Carry on.
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Old 08-05-2008, 09:52 AM   #30
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Having no kids made it much easier for us to LYBM, save money, retire quite early, and ride off into the sunset to do whatever we pleased.

But I don't think most people choose to have kids based on their retirement goals. We had decided no kids long before we realized that way early retirement was an option for us.

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Old 08-05-2008, 10:06 AM   #31
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Seriously, though, I think that the first kid forces most parents to grow up and start thinking about retirement, maybe even ER. The second kid forces most parents to think about budgeting & saving. The third & subsequent kids spawn truly creative & frugal-minded lifestyles, so it's not a linear equation. The result may be that having more kids might actually be better for encouraging ER.
As a co-worker once said, "having a kid changes your life, having a second kid is an even bigger change, but having that third kid is like waking up and finding yourself in charge of a small and very poor country."
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Old 08-05-2008, 10:07 AM   #32
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We have a ton of friends with no kids--I don't think finances figured into their decisions (or ours to have them). Interestingly for the most part they are no better off financially than DH and I, and our friends who are parents, are. Only our friends w/kids have RE'd, also interestingly.
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Old 08-05-2008, 10:19 AM   #33
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My wife and I don't have kids and don't plan on having any. My 15 year old niece is spending the summer with us (not my idea!) and after this experience I am more convinced than ever that I do not want kids. Goodness, I have a new found respect for her parents and their ability not to lose it. Maybe it's her "goth" style, maybe it's the loud "metal" music all day, maybe it's her having an opinion on everything (especially if she knows she can pi$$ me off), I don't know, it makes me want to get a vasectomy.

But, although our decision not to have kids was not based on financial considerations, we are fully aware that it will have a financial impact on our ability to retire early (in our 40's most likely).

So how many kids should you have? Well, only you and your wife can answer that question.

<------- those are our only "babies"...
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Old 08-05-2008, 10:21 AM   #34
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My wife and I don't have kids and don't plan on having any. My 15 year old niece is spending the summer with us (not my idea!) and after this experience I am more convinced than ever that I do not want kids. Goodness, I have a new found respect for her parents and their ability not to lose it. Maybe it's her "goth" style, maybe it's the loud "metal" music all day, maybe it's her having an opinion on everything (especially if she knows she can pi$$ me off), I don't know, it makes me want to get a vasectomy.

But, although our decision not to have kids was not based on financial considerations, we are fully aware that it will have a financial impact on our ability to retire early (in our 40's most likely).

So how many kids should you have? Well, only you and your wife can answer that question.
Having to deal with crappy music is a very important factor in many decisions involving children, it seems. [/kindasarcasm]
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Old 08-05-2008, 10:32 AM   #35
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Having to deal with crappy music is a very important factor in many decisions involving children, it seems. [/kindasarcasm]
I'm sure my dad, his dad, and his dad's dad would agree...........
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Old 08-05-2008, 10:45 AM   #36
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My wife and I don't have kids and don't plan on having any. My 15 year old niece is spending the summer with us (not my idea!) and after this experience I am more convinced than ever that I do not want kids. Goodness, I have a new found respect for her parents and their ability not to lose it. Maybe it's her "goth" style, maybe it's the loud "metal" music all day, maybe it's her having an opinion on everything (especially if she knows she can pi$$ me off), I don't know, it makes me want to get a vasectomy.

But, although our decision not to have kids was not based on financial considerations, we are fully aware that it will have a financial impact on our ability to retire early (in our 40's most likely).
I knew early on that I preferred dogs to kids, so I was clipped at 27 - the earliest I could find someone who would do the job on a young, un-married guy. Although not done for financial reasons, I am sure this was a significant factor in lowering my expenses and making retirement earlier.
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Old 08-05-2008, 10:48 AM   #37
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You are killin' me........I'm going to take my 6-year old to Best Buy and try that!!
Come on. Kids, child birth, open box, the joke is right there!

Don't go to best buy, their return policy sucks. You should always buy your kids at costco.
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Old 08-05-2008, 11:19 AM   #38
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Hey Marquette, I can't have kids, I'm contagious to them.

I have used Cycling Investor's story when explaining our (same) decision to friends and family. We waited a bit longer, and were married, but when you know, you know.
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Old 08-05-2008, 11:25 AM   #39
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Don't go to best buy, their return policy sucks. You should always buy your kids at costco.
Yeah but then you have to buy two of them shrink wrapped together and they're twice as big as regular kids. But the price is right.
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Old 08-05-2008, 11:26 AM   #40
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like waking up and finding yourself in charge of a small and very poor country.
Constantly in a state of rebellion and uprisings.
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