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Old 08-05-2008, 11:56 AM   #41
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I gotta write that our two kids have really had no impact on our early retirement. I've never understood any of the posts about kids being expensive or a detriment to early retirement.

First, we both worked and were able to sock away lots of money from the get go. Second, we had our kids when we were in our late 30s, so our pattern of LBYM was well-set before kids and we kept on that path after kids. Third, our kids will not be in college at the same time.
No impact? At all? I love my kids dearly, and have no plans to try to exchange them at the local big box store, but those buggers are currently accounting for 27% of our spending (they're our biggest expense category). Factor in the fact that if not for them we could downsize to a smaller home with no regard for school districts, etc., and there's no doubt in my mind that we could probably ER a full 10 years sooner if not for the kids.

I'm not complaining. We're very happy and comfortable with the lifestyle choices we've made, but there's no doubt that we're paying a price for those choices. You may not MIND the financial impact your kids have had, but there has certainly been one, whether you choose to recognize it or not.
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Old 08-05-2008, 12:09 PM   #42
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Come on. Kids, child birth, open box, the joke is right there!

Don't go to best buy, their return policy sucks. You should always buy your kids at costco.
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Old 08-05-2008, 12:13 PM   #43
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No impact? At all?
I puzzle over statements of "no impact" too. How could children have no impact on expenses? Everything they do costs money. Even their pooping costs money. Those Pampers are not given away free, once you have used that first complimentary pack .

Even John Galt who was infamous for making absurd claims never tried that one.

Ha
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Old 08-05-2008, 12:41 PM   #44
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I puzzle over statements of "no impact" too. How could children have no impact on expenses? Everything they do costs money. Even their pooping costs money. Those Pampers are not given away free, once you have used that first complimentary pack .

Even John Galt who was infamous for making absurd claims never tried that one.

Ha
Who is John Galt?

Was he the guy who predicted the dotcom crash and the real estate crash? 8)
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Old 08-05-2008, 12:49 PM   #45
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I would say the cost is less than some people think - for one we have less opportunity to spend money. Instead of fine dining on Friday night, we are eating mac and cheese. Instead of the theatre, we go to the park. Instead of a weekend in Palm Springs, it's camping in our future!

But if your lifestyle is already super LBYM then I think a significant rise in costs is inevitable.
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Old 08-05-2008, 12:53 PM   #46
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Who is John Galt?

Was he the guy who predicted the dotcom crash and the real estate crash? 8)
An old poster here, who was famous for his hogwash, and oh yeah, the guy from the Ayn Rand novel Atlas Shrugged.
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Old 08-05-2008, 02:37 PM   #47
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I'm just going to say that finances never entered the equation on the number of kids to have. I have hopes of being the cool grandpa who has plenty of time to hang out, take them camping, teach to fish, read 4 pillars of investing out loud...

i was wonder why don't you have an additional of 3,4 or 5 more kids if finance never entered the equation. i was hoping to have six children until i get the diapers and day care bills.


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Old 08-05-2008, 02:48 PM   #48
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i was wonder why don't you have an additional of 3,4 or 5 more kids if finance never entered the equation. i was hoping to have six children until i get the diapers and day care bills.
Why on earth would *anyone* want 6 kids? Seriously, unless you're running a farm and need the slave free labor, there wouldn't seem to be enough time or attention to go around (never mind the financial implications).
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Old 08-05-2008, 03:20 PM   #49
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Hey, what if you had six really, really good names and couldnt decide?
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Old 08-05-2008, 03:30 PM   #50
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Why on earth would *anyone* want 6 kids? Seriously, unless you're running a farm and need the slave free labor, there wouldn't seem to be enough time or attention to go around (never mind the financial implications).

Here is a man with seven kids. Yes, may be he got a farm but he did it because he can and for an average American, i know it's like commiting suicide.

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Old 08-05-2008, 04:16 PM   #51
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No impact? At all? I....
I wrote "no impact on early retirement", not "no impact on life". Remember the subject of this thread is "kids vs retirement" and not "kids vs saving every penny and dime you have".

Aren't there some folks around here who retired early and THEN decided to have kids?
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Old 08-05-2008, 04:33 PM   #52
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I gotta write that our two kids have really had no impact on our early retirement. I've never understood any of the posts about kids being expensive or a detriment to early retirement.

First, we both worked and were able to sock away lots of money from the get go. Second, we had our kids when we were in our late 30s, so our pattern of LBYM was well-set before kids and we kept on that path after kids. Third, our kids will not be in college at the same time.
I second this comment. We added a "kids" section to the budget and this should decrease over time-

covers diapers and formula now
will cover education expenses later
will cover increased groceries later

401k did not drop
Roth IRA contributions have increases since they were born
future raises will go to max out the 401ks and pay down the mortgage.

I am 35, wife is 34. probable FIRE date is either age 53 (HS completed) or 57 (college completed).
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Old 08-05-2008, 04:35 PM   #53
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I wrote "no impact on early retirement", not "no impact on life". Remember the subject of this thread is "kids vs retirement" and not "kids vs saving every penny and dime you have".
Yeah, but in the very next sentence you wrote:

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I've never understood any of the posts about kids being expensive or a detriment to early retirement.
My own experience has shown me that kids ARE expensive, and ARE an impediment to ER. I don't know what your situation is, but if DW and I had decided to ER based on a 4% SWR, and then had kids, we'd either be cutting way back on discretionary spending, or going back to work. Either way, there is a cost.
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Old 08-05-2008, 04:47 PM   #54
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Hey, what if you had six really, really good names and couldnt decide?
Or just one name that's so good it'd be a shame to only use it once. After you use it on all your kids, you can start putting it on household appliances.

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Old 08-05-2008, 05:36 PM   #55
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i was wonder why don't you have an additional of 3,4 or 5 more kids if finance never entered the equation. i was hoping to have six children until i get the diapers and day care bills.


enuff
Time, time to spend with each one and feel like I'm doing a good job/being a responsible parent. I guess you could say money indirectly factored into the equation since if we both didn't have to work and could stay home full time we could have more than three, but originally we planned on 4 and decided 3 instead for reasons other than money.
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Old 08-05-2008, 06:38 PM   #56
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I had a child at age 19, lived in single motherhood and poverty throughout college and graduate school, but wouldn't change any of it. Then I married again and had two children. The first was born premature and had health problems which made it impossible for me to go back to work. Then my daughter was born and child care would have been too expensive. So I only worked part time while they were growing up.

Did I give up financial gain for my children? Yes. But it was totally worth it. That said, if my ex and I didn't have family weath coming, I don't think I would have had my daughter. I would have been too nervous about the financial side. That would have been really a sad decision.
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Old 08-05-2008, 06:44 PM   #57
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We have 2 (adults now), and we wish we'd had 3 or 4. They are expensive, time-consuming, and worth every penny and every minute. We live about two hours drive from each of them, and would instantly move away from the crummy weather + dull scenery + high cost of living of northern Illinois; except that they are now friends as well as children.
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Old 08-05-2008, 08:00 PM   #58
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My wife and I don't have kids and don't plan on having any. My 15 year old niece is spending the summer with us (not my idea!) and after this experience I am more convinced than ever that I do not want kids. Goodness, I have a new found respect for her parents and their ability not to lose it. Maybe it's her "goth" style, maybe it's the loud "metal" music all day, maybe it's her having an opinion on everything (especially if she knows she can pi$$ me off), I don't know, it makes me want to get a vasectomy.
It's too late for therapy, but FWIW you were dropped into a pot of boiling water.

Most parents start out in a nice lukewarm tub and have at least 15 years to raise the temperature. During that time they develop amazing reserves of temperament, patience, and stamina.

You also had no leverage. She would've been much more accomodating if she'd needed your signature for her driving learner's permit.

The good news is that if you'd killed her, every judge in the land (the ones who are parents, anyway) would declare it justifiable homicide.
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Old 08-05-2008, 08:41 PM   #59
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what's the suggested number of kids to have?
Everyone has to answer this for themselves. Your finances will depend on your answer, but I hope your answer doesn't depend on your finances. For me, the answer was a large number, but for DW (now ex) the answer was a small number. And we negotiated until we ended up with 2 and mostly ran out of time for more. It was not a decision based on our finances and (except in case of real poverty) I hope it would never be a financial choice. Not to say it doesn't affect finances - it does - but hopefully as an effect, not a cause.
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Old 08-06-2008, 12:12 PM   #60
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Everyone has to answer this for themselves. Your finances will depend on your answer, but I hope your answer doesn't depend on your finances. For me, the answer was a large number, but for DW (now ex) the answer was a small number. And we negotiated until we ended up with 2 and mostly ran out of time for more. It was not a decision based on our finances and (except in case of real poverty) I hope it would never be a financial choice. Not to say it doesn't affect finances - it does - but hopefully as an effect, not a cause.

sorry for disappointing but my answer does totally based on finance. Like i mentioned earlier if money wasn't an issue, i would like half a dozen of kids... my mom had 8, now that's what i meant about "money never entered the equation", lucky for us both mom and dad were a little better off than an average family so we didn't have to fight for food while growing up.

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