Kitces on Spending
- Thread starter USGrant1962
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W2R
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Well, but he lives in a high COL part of the country! $35/pound is probably a really good price for Velveeta, there. Wait 'til he tells you how much cheddar or gouda costs.
daylatedollarshort
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
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The most interesting find in retirement for us is that we can live the same life as we did when we were working but now on less than half our former spending with the kids grown up and mostly off the payroll, paying less in income taxes, no more job and commute costs and optimizing our smaller expenses. We have the same house and upgraded one of the cars. Our house has doubled in market value since we retired so for us the focus on optimizing smaller expenses has worked out better than if we had moved to less expensive housing.
googily
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I know two people who liquidated requirement accounts, penalties and all, to pay basic expenses. And I know there's no extra money squirreled away somewhere else. One only had that IRA as an inheritance, and has never had any money, but the other "lives for the moment," aka, they may not live that long, so why worry about it now?
DH and I had great salaries and benefits, a house we bought in the 90s in a neighborhood that has since become "hot," and, probably the biggest shortcut to being the Millionaire Next Door, no kids.
What really kind of amazes me is how few of my friends are in truly comfortable shape in their early or mid 50s.
Check your state laws re bankruptcy
Unfortunately I can't find anything that updated this specific article (below, WSJ 2009 column), but a May 2018 link from a website specializing in self-directed IRAs reiterated the $1M limit. Note from everything I have seen in the last 5 yrs, this limit is NOT set by any statute; I believe it was derived from some state lawsuits filed in at least two different states involving the IRS.
======
How to Protect 401(k)s and IRAs From Creditors
WS Journal by Kelly Greene, Updated May 9, 2009
(excerpt)
Your retirement savings would have the most protection from creditors in a 401(k) or other employer-sponsored qualified plan.
But federal law provides some protection for individual retirement accounts, as well. There also are strategies to help prevent creditors from raiding your IRA.
If your savings are in a 401(k) account, they are protected from all forms of creditor judgments, including bankruptcy, says Kyle Brown, a retirement counsel with Watson Wyatt Worldwide in Arlington, Va. Solo 401(k)s, however, don't necessarily have the same protections as other 401(k) plans; in some states, solo 401(k)s are protected from creditors, but in others they aren't.
There are two exceptions, he adds: first, federal tax liens imposed by the IRS; second, judgments against individuals who had administered an employer-sponsored plan for embezzlement of the plan or a fiduciary breach against it.
IRAs, including Roth IRAs, don't have precisely the same shields -- but under a 2005 law, the Bankruptcy Abuse Prevention and Consumer Protection Act, up to $1 million in IRA assets are protected in the event of bankruptcy, says Jan Jacobson, senior counsel for retirement policy at the American Benefits Council, a Washington trade group.
There's some controversy about the language in the law, which says $1 million in IRA assets is protected in bankruptcy "without regard to amounts attributable to rollover contributions," Mr. Brown says. Most experts say that phrase should be interpreted to mean that amounts rolled over from employer plans get creditor protection, as well. But others, he adds, believe it means that the $1 million is determined "without regard" to whether the amounts are attributable to rollovers. (To date, court rulings on the language are all but nonexistent, Mr. Brown notes.)
In any event, at least $1 million in IRA assets would be protected if you filed a bankruptcy claim. However, in other types of lawsuits, IRA protections from creditors vary from state to state and may be different for traditional IRAs and Roth IRAs. In New York, where the reader above lives, "creditor protection for IRAs and Roth IRAs is unlimited," says Ed Slott, an IRA consultant in Rockville Centre, N.Y.
However, even if you live in a state where laws provide less protection for IRAs, "I wouldn't leave the money in a 401(k) just for that reason alone," Mr. Slott says. IRAs often provide easier access to your money, a wider range of investments and may have lower fees, he contends. So, if creditor protection is the only reason you would consider leaving your assets in a 401(k), he suggests two other "lines of defense" -- professional malpractice insurance and a personal umbrella liability policy, which can be relatively inexpensive. "I recently paid $600 for $5 million in coverage," he says.
=====
HTH
Unfortunately I can't find anything that updated this specific article (below, WSJ 2009 column), but a May 2018 link from a website specializing in self-directed IRAs reiterated the $1M limit. Note from everything I have seen in the last 5 yrs, this limit is NOT set by any statute; I believe it was derived from some state lawsuits filed in at least two different states involving the IRS.
======
How to Protect 401(k)s and IRAs From Creditors
WS Journal by Kelly Greene, Updated May 9, 2009
(excerpt)
Your retirement savings would have the most protection from creditors in a 401(k) or other employer-sponsored qualified plan.
But federal law provides some protection for individual retirement accounts, as well. There also are strategies to help prevent creditors from raiding your IRA.
If your savings are in a 401(k) account, they are protected from all forms of creditor judgments, including bankruptcy, says Kyle Brown, a retirement counsel with Watson Wyatt Worldwide in Arlington, Va. Solo 401(k)s, however, don't necessarily have the same protections as other 401(k) plans; in some states, solo 401(k)s are protected from creditors, but in others they aren't.
There are two exceptions, he adds: first, federal tax liens imposed by the IRS; second, judgments against individuals who had administered an employer-sponsored plan for embezzlement of the plan or a fiduciary breach against it.
IRAs, including Roth IRAs, don't have precisely the same shields -- but under a 2005 law, the Bankruptcy Abuse Prevention and Consumer Protection Act, up to $1 million in IRA assets are protected in the event of bankruptcy, says Jan Jacobson, senior counsel for retirement policy at the American Benefits Council, a Washington trade group.
There's some controversy about the language in the law, which says $1 million in IRA assets is protected in bankruptcy "without regard to amounts attributable to rollover contributions," Mr. Brown says. Most experts say that phrase should be interpreted to mean that amounts rolled over from employer plans get creditor protection, as well. But others, he adds, believe it means that the $1 million is determined "without regard" to whether the amounts are attributable to rollovers. (To date, court rulings on the language are all but nonexistent, Mr. Brown notes.)
In any event, at least $1 million in IRA assets would be protected if you filed a bankruptcy claim. However, in other types of lawsuits, IRA protections from creditors vary from state to state and may be different for traditional IRAs and Roth IRAs. In New York, where the reader above lives, "creditor protection for IRAs and Roth IRAs is unlimited," says Ed Slott, an IRA consultant in Rockville Centre, N.Y.
However, even if you live in a state where laws provide less protection for IRAs, "I wouldn't leave the money in a 401(k) just for that reason alone," Mr. Slott says. IRAs often provide easier access to your money, a wider range of investments and may have lower fees, he contends. So, if creditor protection is the only reason you would consider leaving your assets in a 401(k), he suggests two other "lines of defense" -- professional malpractice insurance and a personal umbrella liability policy, which can be relatively inexpensive. "I recently paid $600 for $5 million in coverage," he says.
=====
HTH
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