Kiyosaki

[Nords]

Gotta love the RK bashers. Although I dont buy into everything he says either. Especially when he discusses stocks. Which as someone wrote is something he says he doesnt do.

Spidey, how do you feel about his lying about his military record?

http://www.johntreed.com/Kiyosaki.html

 

[d]

Whats your point in bashing RK

Spidey: reread my posts and you will note that i have not been bashing Kiyosaki, but have merely quoted and paraphrased him.  indeed, it has been his words, not mine, which draw the ire of others. and perhaps you misunderstand, it's not that i dislike the man, only that he makes me vomit.

 

[Enuff2Eat]

i am with spidey.

i like RK but like most of you said he tends to contradict himself everynow and then. the point is that he does gives good advice and bad advice. you just got to pick and choose what you want to learn and skip the BS.

everything i learned in college did NOT applied in my life BUT heck we spent $15,000 a year on college tuition ... then after 4 years of college the kids come home with the parents.

if i spend $13 on a book and out of 200 pages in the book, 199 pages of it are useless information and one page that i can learn and applied to my situation then its GOOD enuff for me. and i believe it's a bargain for a financial education.

yes, he does made some BS about his military record and that's not cool but in many ways people tends to blow things out of proprotion to make it "sounds" good. i know alot of retired veteran do the same thing and i found that to be harmless....

just one more thing, DON'T ask uncle Bush about his record.

enuff

 

[Jay_Gatsby]

Kiyosaki does make a good point in emphasizing that you should make your money work for you, rather than working for your money. Likewise, he makes a good point about using OPM (other people's money) to make money, rather than your own. The problem is that the average person isn't sophisticated enough to understand or is not disciplined enough to follow through on his advice. At the same time, however, Kiyosaki does play fast and loose with the truth regarding his own background and secret for success, causing many people to distrust him and his advice.

As for Charles Givens, I though his Superself book had some good advice as well. Much of it, like Kiyosaki's books (and Tony Robbins for that matter) is rehashed material from self-help books dating back hundreds of years.

 

[runchman]

The thing I have a problem with, is that he expects everyone to start and run their own business and be successful.

Is this really reasonable advice when the majority of the population are challenged by the mental processing required for navigating a 4-way stop intersection?

 

[justin]

Let's face it - half the population is of below average intellect. Which option would you recommend this half follows - (A) Invest in a broadly diversified portfolio of low cost mutual funds set on auto-invest or (B) invest in highly leveraged real estate which requires tons of skills to do successfully?

(I'm just hoping I'm in the "above-average" half )

 

[maddythebeagle]

Let's face it - half the population is of below average intellect.

right, but I think the bigger problem is this group thinks that they are the other half Take JG for example.

 

[justin]

I've seen some pretty well educated folks fall for the Kiyosaki nonsense. They usually lack a B.S. detector. They also decided Kiyosaki's nonsense sounds like much better nonsense than the Amway that they were selling prior to discovering the magic of Kiyosaki.

Kiyosaki is just another get-rich-quick scheme. Sure, if you construe his words in the right manner, and if you successfully separate and ignore the 199 out of 200 pages of B.S. in each of his books, and if you are prepared to work very hard to acheive your goals and spend a considerable amount of time doing so, you can be very successful. However that's a tautology - anyone who is "prepared to work very hard to acheive your goals and spend a considerable amount of time doing so" will most likely be successful, with or without Kiyosaki's input (I almost said "help" instead of "input").

 

[brewer12345]

Kiyosaki = assclown

Not much more to say, really.

 

[nfs]

An acquaintance just attended a free 3 day intensive at:

www.millionairemind.com

and gushed about how everyone should go. He couldn't stop talking about how motivating it was to get to a place where money wasn't an issue. But when I asked him what was the one takeaway idea he learned, he just said it was really motivating.

That seems to be the Kiyosaki approach as well: Get people psyched up to make progress with money, but don't give any good advice about what to actually do. People feel the excitement and confuse it with progress.

Run away from T. Harv Eker. Never charged AFAIK, he has a long serial association with dozens, perhaps hundreds now, of dubious schemes. For years, he hung around Vancouver and was repeatedly written up by David Baines at the Vancouver Sun. Here's just one instance.

http://charitycheck.ca/ccc/pages/media_story7.php

 

[eridanus]

Real estate always goes up!

 

[justin]

Real estate always goes up!

That's a lie! Everyone knows that only the real estate that always goes up is guaranteed to only go up. Just buy that kind and you can get 20% returns every two weeks.

 

[brewer12345]

Real estate always goes up!

So does gold, GOLD, GOLD!!!!!!! :

 

[Jay_Gatsby]

That seems to be the Kiyosaki approach as well:  Get people psyched up to make progress with money, but don't give any good advice about what to actually do.  People feel the excitement and confuse it with progress.

This is the heart of the problem. Emotional motivation is great, but without concrete steps towards a goal it is useless. Kiyosaki can't give people anything more than emotional motivation and simple platitudes regarding "how the rich got rich" because he himself has never built a successful business -- other than a motivational speaking business, of course. There are plenty of step-by-step books on entrepreneurship, but they're boring to most people since they don't dangle the carrots of immeasurable wealth, happiness and a promise of the "good life". Rather, they emphasize complex concepts such as marketing, customers, inventory, accounting, corporate structure, stock, etc.... Why worry about such things when you can simply flip real estate and make a bundle?

The whole thing reminds me of the following "Laws of Power" (from the book by the same title):

Law 27 -- Play on People’s Need to Believe to Create a Cultlike Following

People have an overwhelming desire to believe in something. Become the focal point of such desire by offering them a cause, a new faith to follow. Keep your words vague but full of promise; emphasize enthusiasm over rationality and clear thinking. Give your new disciples rituals to perform, ask them to make sacrifices on your behalf. In the absence of organized religion and grand causes, your new belief system will bring you untold power.

Law 30 -- Make your Accomplishments Seem Effortless

Your actions must seem natural and executed with ease. All the toil and practice that go into them, and also all the clever tricks, must be concealed. When you act, act effortlessly, as if you could do much more. Avoid the temptation of revealing how hard you work – it only raises questions. Teach no one your tricks or they will be used against you.

Law 32 -- Play to People’s Fantasies

The truth is often avoided because it is ugly and unpleasant. Never appeal to truth and reality unless you are prepared for the anger that comes for disenchantment. Life is so harsh and distressing that people who can manufacture romance or conjure up fantasy are like oases in the desert: Everyone flocks to them. There is great power in tapping into the fantasies of the masses.

Law 37 -- Create Compelling Spectacles

Striking imagery and grand symbolic gestures create the aura of power – everyone responds to them. Stage spectacles for those around you, then full of arresting visuals and radiant symbols that heighten your presence. Dazzled by appearances, no one will notice what you are really doing.

 

[larry]

Let's face it - half the population is of below average intellect.  Which option would you recommend this half follows - (A) Invest in a broadly diversified portfolio of low cost mutual funds set on auto-invest or (B) invest in highly leveraged real estate which requires tons of skills to do successfully? 

(I'm just hoping I'm in the "above-average" half    )

This is why I cannot stand authors (or radio personalities for that matter) who only give half the story.  Most investors are only astute enough for mutual funds so it doesn't help most investors to be telling them basically that you're getting screwed investing in mutual funds.  "Give a man a fish...."

Charles Givens had some good advice, RK has some good advice, Dave Ramesy has some good advice but to have to sort through it all to find the good advice is almost a waste of time.  

Sure, you've got to start somewhere but these people are not it.

 

[Alex]

This is why I cannot stand authors (or radio personalities for that matter) who only give half the story. Most investors are only astute enough for mutual funds so it doesn't help most investors to be telling them basically that you're getting screwed investing in mutual funds. "Give a man a fish...."

Charles Givens had some good advice, RK has some good advice, Dave Ramesy has some good advice but to have to sort through it all to find the good advice is almost a waste of time.

Sure, you've got to start somewhere but these people are not it.

Not to be nitpicky, but, I am more than astute enough to put together a portfolio of individual stocks - if I chose to. But, I choose to invest in index funds for many many reasons. Lack of knowledge is not one of them.

 

[larry]

Not to be nitpicky, but,  I am more than astute enough to put together a portfolio of individual stocks - if I chose to.  But, I choose to invest in index funds for many many reasons. Lack of knowledge is not one of them.

Then you probably don't fall in the majority, nor do most of the other contributors on this board.

I'm not speaking about the forum members as it's evident they're sophisticated enough to have already accomplished FIRE or are in the process.  This group constitutes a very small minority of the investing public.

 

[Enuff2Eat]

Law 27 -- Play on People’s Need to Believe to Create a Cultlike Following

People have an overwhelming desire to believe in something. Become the focal point of such desire by offering them a cause, a new faith to follow. Keep your words vague but full of promise; emphasize enthusiasm over rationality and clear thinking. Give your new disciples rituals to perform, ask them to make sacrifices on your behalf. In the absence of organized religion and grand causes, your new belief system will bring you untold power.



law 27- sounds like a "relegion" practice

 

[bosco]

I am ashamed to admit that I got took by RK--the price of his book. It had a good rating from some ER site (might have even been this one).

It didn't take too many pages before my bs-ometer was pegged and I realized that I had contributed to someone ELSES financial success and not my own by buying it.

I don't believe a word he says.

 

[2B]

Dave Ramesy has some good advice but to have to sort through it all to find the good advice is almost a waste of time.  

Sure, you've got to start somewhere but these people are not it.

I've recommended Dave Ramsey books to lots of people. He's the "go to guy" when you have $30,000 in credit card debt, two car payments and a mortgage you can't afford. The one thing DR pushes is "spend less than you make" or LBYM -- get that debt paid off. His message is pathetically simple to 99.9% of this forum. Unfortunately, the great unwashed masses of our coworkers, family and friends just don't get it yet.

 

[MJ]

I am ashamed to admit that I got took by RK--the price of his book. It had a good rating from some ER site (might have even been this one).

It didn't take too many pages before my bs-ometer was pegged and I realized that I had contributed to someone ELSES financial success and not my own by buying it.

I don't believe a word he says.

I guess, no money if not satisfied after reading the book?

 

[CybrMike]

Personally, Kiyosaki's books sparked the motivation that I needed to begin my financial education. Immediately after reading his book(s) I was hungry for more. I bought books (from an assortment of authors) on investing, on real estate, and a variety of other financial topics. Some were BS, some contained good advice.

I bought a $260K four-plex while attending college in 2001, for about $2K down. I lived in one unit and the cashflow was still positive.

Late 2002, I started a successful dot-com and sold it earlier this year for 10MM.

While I wouldn't say Kiyosaki is entirely resonsible for my success, he definitely sparked an intense interest in building my financial education.

Also, if you read TFA, he actually suggests investing in Index funds a la John Bogle. He suggests that non index mutual funds charge 2% per year or more, a lot of which is in hidden fees.

Not that I agree with everything Kiyosaki says, but some people do receive value from the motivational kick of enthusiam that his books provide.

 

[Alex]

I am ashamed to admit that I got took by RK--the price of his book. It had a good rating from some ER site (might have even been this one).

It didn't take too many pages before my bs-ometer was pegged and I realized that I had contributed to someone ELSES financial success and not my own by buying it.

I don't believe a word he says.

I too, purchased and read his first book - Rich dad Poor dad. It makes a pretty good case for owning your own business due to tax reaons. That's it. No specifics. Just generalizations and rah rah bullsh*t. His wife is kinda cute though....I wonder how much he paid for her? I have heard that the whole rich dad poor dad story is pure bullsh*t too. Just made up crap to sell the books.

 

[vic]

I have read parts of virtually all of his books. I would never ever buying one of his books, but I sell used books and I get them quite often. Except for the South Beach Diet, not a single book ever ever sold that quickly.

Although Kiyosaki has a few good general concepts, it is mixed with a lot of advice that is just very dangerous for the average person to follow. Accumulating assets and making those assets make you accumulate wealth is good. However, a lot of that requires a huge commitment and/or knowlegde. One of his most scary recommendations is for young people not to get a good education.

According to Kiyosaki, all you got to do is start your own business, pile up rapidly appreciating real estate investments and make sure you don't get an education. Carrying out all of this stuff takes a bit more effort than he makes it sound like.

At age 37, I am not working for corporate America any more. After I was laid off I could not face this crap again. However, I do not feel that my two masters degrees in engineering were ever a waste - even though I do not officially use them any more. My husband and I decided that I would stay home and work on wealth accumulation. Although my engineering salary was not bad, he makes considerably more money and he has not gone completely crazy in the cube farm. When I was still an engineer, we had 2 fat W-2's for well over $200K, we were investing mainly in uncle sam. I don't have a dime in any of those index funds no more. Most of it is in short term LLC's which return me about 20-30%/year. I am running a small profitable home based business now which gives me tons of deductions and very little taxable income. We bought three rental houses now in the last few months. I got some very cheap folks to work for me, but I got to work with them otherwise stuff does not get done or gets expensive. It is about 95 degrees out here. Emergency plumbing repairs only happen on Sunday night (can't remember Kiyosaki indicating any of those things). We built a house last year that has appreciated by at least $100K. I had to learn a lot about taxes and shelters, contracts, real estate law, lawsuits and forming LP's and LLC's. Looks like I have to evict someone in a few days. I like it but I doubt that it is for most people. I also have this freedom because hubby brings in good cash and benefits and I don't have kids.

Most people are best of to stay in a W-2 job and just keep on stashing it away with their employer match. Instead, based on Kiyosaki's books they spent a few thousand bucks on a real estate seminar and then buy crap they don't understand.

Vicky

 

[d]

Not that I agree with everything Kiyosaki says, but some people do receive value

  manure has value too, but it's still horse sh*t