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Old 06-19-2016, 05:23 AM   #21
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You know - I'd be shopping for new banks. Fee free ACH transfers is a must!

Well, actually I have a workaround for this. All you need is one account at an institution that does fee free ACH transfers. Online high yield savings accounts and brokerage accounts are usually in this category. Then use this account as a middle man initiating the transfer from the first bank, then to the second when it clears. You do have to have the accounts linked already to do this. I usually set such links up soon after I open any new bank account.

BofA, for example, charges for electronic transfers outside of BofA, but they don't charge if initiated by another institution. So I always initiate from my brokerage or high yield savings account whether it's a withdrawal or a deposit.
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Old 06-19-2016, 07:15 AM   #22
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Now I'm really tempted to withdraw $20k just for kicks to see if they give me grief (or men in suits come seize me).

If they ask what I'm doing with the cash I'll tell them I'm playing Monopoly with it for fun because that's what you can do when you have $20k sitting in the bank drawing 1% interest.
Just don't get stopped driving on the way home or you risk having that much cash in you car confiscated. I know from experienced getting grilled if I was carrying over $2000 in cash (which I wasn't) when stopped and pulled over.

Yes, keep us updated, after the men in suits seize you and when you have internet privileges from prison .
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Old 06-19-2016, 07:18 AM   #23
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We moved my younger son's savings account (>10k) from a bank to a broker maybe a decade ago. We closed his bank account and used a bank check to transfer the money. They had a sign at the time about the Patriot Act. From what I recall, they recommended heavily that we do ACH or personal check next time, but they accepted the deposit. They did have to fill out some forms documenting the deposit per the laws at that time.
This is not an attempt to keep you from your $, but to reduce criminal activity. If you write personal checks against a bank account, ACH transfer, etc.... the transfer is documented. Being documented, they don't need external documentation to provide information to aid in tracking.
If you doing nothing illegal, you have nothing to worry about. The government is not trying to stop you from accessing you $. But don't think that a money order, bank check or cashier's check will eliminate the issue in terms of reporting.
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Old 06-19-2016, 07:22 AM   #24
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Just don't get stopped driving on the way home or you risk having that much cash in you car confiscated. I know from experienced getting grilled if I was carrying over $2000 in cash (which I wasn't) when stopped and pulled over.

Yes, keep us updated, after the men in suits seize you and when you have internet privileges from prison .
I'd worry more about thugs not in suits while carrying lots of cash. Thinking walking, not driving is this case. A good pick pocket will walk away without your knowing it happened.
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Old 06-19-2016, 08:42 AM   #25
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I'd worry more about thugs not in suits while carrying lots of cash. Thinking walking, not driving is this case. A good pick pocket will walk away without your knowing it happened.
True. I'd be afraid having all that cash on me.
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Old 06-19-2016, 08:52 AM   #26
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I was not able to do an electronic transfer because the recipient bank would accept an electronic transfer only from a checking account, and not a savings account - and the account from which I withdrew the funds was a savings account. (Why they have this rule, I have no idea -- but that's the rule). I could have used a cashier's check -- and in retrospect I probably should have done that -- but I was annoyed by the ten dollar fee for such a check.

The bank from which I withdrew the funds asked me for ID and asked me my occupation. I am not sure why they asked my occupation, but I had no objection to the question. Whatever they want to know (within reason) is fine with me.

They did not ask me why I am making the withdrawal. (If they had asked, I would have simply told them that I am depositing the funds at another bank which pays higher interest).

In hindsight, this was probably a dumb thing to do. Then again, I have done lots of dumb things in the past, and I am sure I will do lots of dumb things in the future. So I guess it is just part of a pattern

Since I did not get robbed, and the recipient bank had no problem accepting the cash, really my only concern at this point is whether it will increase the risk of an IRS audit. I am totally honest on my tax returns, but I am sure the process of an audit would be annoying and time consuming.
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Old 06-19-2016, 08:59 AM   #27
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I was not able to do an electronic transfer because the recipient bank would accept an electronic transfer only from a checking account, and not a savings account - and the account from which I withdrew the funds was a savings account. (Why they have this rule, I have no idea -- but that's the rule). I could have used a cashier's check -- and in retrospect I probably should have done that -- but I was annoyed by the ten dollar fee for such a check.

The bank from which I withdrew the funds asked me for ID and asked me my occupation. I am not sure why they asked my occupation, but I had no objection to the question. Whatever they want to know (within reason) is fine with me.

They did not ask me why I am making the withdrawal. (If they had asked, I would have simply told them that I am depositing the funds at another bank which pays higher interest).

In hindsight, this was probably a dumb thing to do. Then again, I have done lots of dumb things in the past, and I am sure I will do lots of dumb things in the future. So I guess it is just part of a pattern

Since I did not get robbed, and the recipient bank had no problem accepting the cash, really my only concern at this point is whether it will increase the risk of an IRS audit. I am totally honest on my tax returns, but I am sure the process of an audit would be annoying and time consuming.
I can't imagine dealing with a bank with restrictions on ACH deposits.
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Old 06-19-2016, 09:33 AM   #28
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I was not able to do an electronic transfer because the recipient bank would accept an electronic transfer only from a checking account, and not a savings account ...
I don't even have a savings account. My "savings" is my money market. Nice when I bought a car in cash, simply do the transfer from MM to my checking, then write the fat (well, over 10K) check to the car dealer.
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Old 06-19-2016, 10:15 AM   #29
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It would have been free to chew on the branch manager of Bank A over the $10 charge.

I just wouldn't do any more large transactions anywhere.

My family has a big city luxury car dealership. They have drug dealers and Irish Travelers coming in quite often wanting to pay big cash. They later come in with a number of $9,999 bank checks to purchase automobiles--often in different peoples' names.
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Old 06-19-2016, 10:18 AM   #30
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If the banker asked you what it was for, and you said "none of your business", expect your account to be closed.
That may be a POSSIBLE, but probably not likely scenario. Perhaps if you just opened the account a couple of days ago, and this is your first transaction then well, maybe. Most of us tend to have pretty longstanding relationships with our banks and as such have a long track record. Unlikely that a bank would close such an account just because of a snippy comment to the teller.
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Old 06-19-2016, 12:34 PM   #31
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Now that I'm thinking about it more, I wonder why they asked me what my occupation is. Maybe they are required to ask that, to include it on the report?

Seems like an odd question, though. I mean, its not like anyone would respond "drug dealer" or "ponzi scheme operator" or "professional money launderer", even if that was the truth.
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Old 06-19-2016, 12:51 PM   #32
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Now that I'm thinking about it more, I wonder why they asked me what my occupation is. Maybe they are required to ask that, to include it on the report?
Banks have asked me the same question. Not sure why but that's seems to be consistent. However, Casinos don't seem to ask that question.
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Old 06-19-2016, 01:03 PM   #33
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Just don't get stopped driving on the way home or you risk having that much cash in you car confiscated. I know from experienced getting grilled if I was carrying over $2000 in cash (which I wasn't) when stopped and pulled over.
If found, I doubt it would be confiscated. I'd produce the bank receipt so they know it's not drug money (or at least it's clean drug money with a paper trail lol). I would feel weird explaining the money was to play Monopoly with my kids (that might put me in the 1-percenter camp and make it more likely to have the $ confiscated!).

I've also never been pulled over (tending to generally follow traffic laws pretty closely). And even if I was pulled over for a traffic stop, this alone generally won't give a police officer the right to search my vehicle without consent.

I expect if the money was confiscated I would be able to get it returned rather quickly once I document that $20k is a very small part of my balance sheet. I could even pull up my net worth tracking app on my phone and show the officer to possibly prevent confiscation.
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Old 06-19-2016, 01:05 PM   #34
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Now that I'm thinking about it more, I wonder why they asked me what my occupation is. Maybe they are required to ask that, to include it on the report?

Seems like an odd question, though. I mean, its not like anyone would respond "drug dealer" or "ponzi scheme operator" or "professional money launderer", even if that was the truth.
"Part time millionaire"?
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Old 06-19-2016, 02:34 PM   #35
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If found, I doubt it would be confiscated. I'd produce the bank receipt so they know it's not drug money (or at least it's clean drug money with a paper trail lol). I would feel weird explaining the money was to play Monopoly with my kids (that might put me in the 1-percenter camp and make it more likely to have the $ confiscated!).

I've also never been pulled over (tending to generally follow traffic laws pretty closely). And even if I was pulled over for a traffic stop, this alone generally won't give a police officer the right to search my vehicle without consent.

I expect if the money was confiscated I would be able to get it returned rather quickly once I document that $20k is a very small part of my balance sheet. I could even pull up my net worth tracking app on my phone and show the officer to possibly prevent confiscation.
Lots of folks have had money confiscated, it's pretty scary really and I never believed it until I started to read it at various legitimate news sites.
They confiscate it, and then you will spend weeks and weeks fighting for it's return and maybe win, although they might offer to return 80% if you sign an agreement to not sue

Aggressive police take hundreds of millions of dollars from motorists not charged with crimes | The Washington Post

"Aggressive police take hundreds of millions of dollars from motorists not charged with crimes"
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Old 06-19-2016, 02:46 PM   #36
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Lots of folks have had money confiscated, it's pretty scary really and I never believed it until I started to read it at various legitimate news sites.
They confiscate it, and then you will spend weeks and weeks fighting for it's return and maybe win, although they might offer to return 80% if you sign an agreement to not sue

Aggressive police take hundreds of millions of dollars from motorists not charged with crimes | The Washington Post

"Aggressive police take hundreds of millions of dollars from motorists not charged with crimes"
I'm not too worried. Clean cut middle aged white guy with no criminal or civil record (other than being an attorney for a few suits) driving a non-pimped out minivan. I know PD internal affairs officer, city council member for my district where I would drive bank-to-home, and head city attorney.

Not to0 hard to ensure they do the right thing to avoid a nasty media black eye and/or suit (retired attorney with plenty of time to poke the city over and over and over?). Possessing $20k that you just withdrew from the bank isn't a crime (not yet!).
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Old 06-19-2016, 11:45 PM   #37
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I understand that attorney's might not be too bothered by roadside police collections, especially as they can always invoke client privilege as to the source of the $$$.
The rest of us don't have that power.
As the Washington post article explains for the rest of us, even non-criminals, you get your own money back in only a small percentage of the cases and it can easily take a year.

This is actually so bad, not just 1 county in 1 state that was famous for it, that Congress is talking about actually passing a law to fix the overzealous police staff stuffing their coffers.
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Old 06-20-2016, 01:18 AM   #38
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My understanding. After 9/11 the government fined the heck out of the banks. The banks responded with sending anything that looked slightly suspicious over to the government. So now the government is probably overwhelmed with SARs.

My understanding - When teller/bank files a SAR. 1. your name goes in a government "secret" database. 2. You cannot do a FOIA to see if you in the database. 3. There is no set "criteria" for when a bank teller does a SAR. 4. Now the government has a database of everyone that probably is doing fairly large transactions

1. Seems like they are infringing on my rights by putting me in a database and me not being able to see that I'm on it.
2. I'm not sure how much interaction there is between where the SAR goes and the IRS.
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Old 06-20-2016, 05:33 AM   #39
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When asked. I tell the bank it's none of their business what or why I'm accessing my money. That includes transactions from time to time for Cash over 10K.

Same with US customs . Declare the cash if over 10k. But the law does not state you have to say why you have the cash or how it was acquired.

If you are worried, Just tell them it's the Dave Ramsey envelope system. To buy a new car or some household repair.

I have on occasion reminded branch managers and bank presidents that the last I checked, dead presidents are legal tender and if it's my money the bank's job is to return it to me with interest when asked, no other questions needed. They have never refused my business.

I did close an account after a series of poor service events at a credit union once - the bank manger **** when I closed the account that had 50-grand in it - tried desperately to save me. I insisted he give me cash jn 100 dollar bills as I was so pissed off about their incompetence that I didn't think they could even get the check filled out correctly. He complied. The money was deposited the next day into a different bank

I'm comfortable with cash. Lived in other parts of the world where things like boats cars airplanes and houses are paid for in cash. I'm comfortable with it - common sense and street smarts rules..

The police confiscation of cash thing is an issue - it's in part why I exercise my 4th amendment rights. Displaying an FFL generally calms down LEO's and they give you some credit for being legitimate. That said I try to never be stopped..

I refuse to be a "patsy" when it comes to my money. My cash. Why have legal tender if you can't use it. Often times a polite decline will resolve these issues. To me that's one of our constitutional rights worth fighting and dying for.

Someday we'll be all electronic. Till then .. ...
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Old 06-20-2016, 06:04 AM   #40
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That may be a POSSIBLE, but probably not likely scenario. Perhaps if you just opened the account a couple of days ago, and this is your first transaction then well, maybe. Most of us tend to have pretty longstanding relationships with our banks and as such have a long track record. Unlikely that a bank would close such an account just because of a snippy comment to the teller.
You are 100% incorrect. It may have been true in the 1093s, but not today. Banks have a federal requirement to "know your customer".

You are just as well to say you are a drug dealer, and need the cash to buy drugs, "as "none of your business".

When they ask for an occupation, it is to see if the cash transaction "makes sense" for your role in society. If you are deceptive, or evasive, many/most/all? reputable banks will close your account. They can be fined a LOT of money, and many banks have had multi-million dollar fines already. I go through anti-money laundering training every year.

All cash transactions are analyzed. Whether you make them at the same bank branch, or in a branch in a different state. Competing banks work together to group the transactions.

Cash transactions are perfectly legitimate, but not typical for a standard homeowner. A car dealer would have a different hurdle than a convenience store.
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