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Old 06-20-2016, 06:14 AM   #41
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Warren Buffett tells a story of how an IRS official showed up to his office to find out why he had made several monthly $9,000 cash withdrawals which were made for his wife who was redecorating their home. I can understand that. He is a suspicious looking character.
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Old 06-20-2016, 06:15 AM   #42
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First, I think it's pitiful that anyone has to feel remorse about taking some cash out of a bank and putting cash in another bank account. I know people on this forum are the more conservative, careful types, so we're naturally a bit more circumspect about stuff. But still.

On the actual question, don't worry about it one bit. Banks file tons of CTRs all the time, and they all just go in some giant computer at the Treasury/FinCEN. (They used to all go physically into a paper warehouse, but they upgraded a few years ago.)

Now, a SAR is a different thing, but you'll not have one of those unless you did something really weird and you had no banking history and your teller was freaked out about it. Doesn't sound like that's the case.

I don't know why your teller told you he had to "fill out a form." Maybe he was ready for his day to end and that bank's software can't do it quickly (or at all). He's not actually supposed to discuss the details of the CTR with you in the first place! Maybe that branch doesn't see many transactions so it felt like a burden?

The IRS is allowed to access to the CTR database to identify audit targets and to pursue audits. But I seems that their strategy is pretty much just to find people with big CTRs who are doing egregious things, like not filing taxes at all.

My side hobby is cash-intensive and I generate tons of CTRs all year long. This is also not a problem, because tons of similar transactions strongly establishes precedent. (There's a separate, concerning issue about moving lots of cash constantly. Banks don't like patrons who constantly move cash, because (a) they don't have much of it anymore, (b) it's expensive in time and somewhat procedurally riskier for them, and (c) large cash transactions likely do correlate with shadier-behaving customers. Some banks are known to be aggressive in closing accounts of people who move a lot of funds around.)

Since someone mentioned it, I can't help but mention that about 20% of the time a teller or supervisor asks me, usually casually, what I'm about to do with the cash when I'm withdrawing. I find this so off-putting that I literally deadpan, "oh, I'm a drug dealer," and just keep reading my phone or staring them down or whatever. Most of the time, after a moment, they laugh and stop being so nosey.

Lastly, the questioning about occupation is a response to the standard Know Your Customer rules that all the financial entities have to adhere to now. You won't see this as policy at casinos, but every bank is now working on filling in that box on their screen. FinCEN actually issues guidance on what answers are worthy of further scrutiny; I guess there are dumb criminals out there that will be ensnared one day. Sigh.
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Old 06-20-2016, 06:33 AM   #43
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You are 100% incorrect. It may have been true in the 1093s, but not today. Banks have a federal requirement to "know your customer".
While the spirit of your post is true, sentence one is clearly incorrect. Banks of all sizes have a somewhat generic, broad-brush requirement to "know" their customers. But the nature of the way the government works in this area means there is enormous latitude granted to the businesses to establish processes and procedures that achieve the "goal." The requirements (and consequences) are more stringent for larger institutions, lest they overreach and strangle the smaller ones with overregulation.

So I don't think it is anywhere close to 100% incorrect. But, as you say, it's also not the 1930's, to say nothing of 1093!
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Old 06-20-2016, 06:48 AM   #44
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So I don't think it is anywhere close to 100% incorrect. But, as you say, it's also not the 1930's, to say nothing of 1093!
Yes, 1930s...

When a customer says "It's none of their business", they cannot possibly know that customer and will close the account rather than take a chance. Each customer is only a small pittance of revenue, and one that does this is not worth the risk.

The megabank I work for does not do business with online gambling, porn sites, marijuana facilities, etc. It is not worth the reputational risk, even though all may be legal businesses.
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Old 06-20-2016, 07:49 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by Symbiotic View Post
First, I think it's pitiful that anyone has to feel remorse about taking some cash out of a bank and putting cash in another bank account. I know people on this forum are the more conservative, careful types, so we're naturally a bit more circumspect about stuff. But still.

On the actual question, don't worry about it one bit. Banks file tons of CTRs all the time, and they all just go in some giant computer at the Treasury/FinCEN. (They used to all go physically into a paper warehouse, but they upgraded a few years ago.)

Now, a SAR is a different thing, but you'll not have one of those unless you did something really weird and you had no banking history and your teller was freaked out about it. Doesn't sound like that's the case.

I don't know why your teller told you he had to "fill out a form." Maybe he was ready for his day to end and that bank's software can't do it quickly (or at all). He's not actually supposed to discuss the details of the CTR with you in the first place! Maybe that branch doesn't see many transactions so it felt like a burden?

The IRS is allowed to access to the CTR database to identify audit targets and to pursue audits. But I seems that their strategy is pretty much just to find people with big CTRs who are doing egregious things, like not filing taxes at all.

My side hobby is cash-intensive and I generate tons of CTRs all year long. This is also not a problem, because tons of similar transactions strongly establishes precedent. (There's a separate, concerning issue about moving lots of cash constantly. Banks don't like patrons who constantly move cash, because (a) they don't have much of it anymore, (b) it's expensive in time and somewhat procedurally riskier for them, and (c) large cash transactions likely do correlate with shadier-behaving customers. Some banks are known to be aggressive in closing accounts of people who move a lot of funds around.)

Since someone mentioned it, I can't help but mention that about 20% of the time a teller or supervisor asks me, usually casually, what I'm about to do with the cash when I'm withdrawing. I find this so off-putting that I literally deadpan, "oh, I'm a drug dealer," and just keep reading my phone or staring them down or whatever. Most of the time, after a moment, they laugh and stop being so nosey.

Lastly, the questioning about occupation is a response to the standard Know Your Customer rules that all the financial entities have to adhere to now. You won't see this as policy at casinos, but every bank is now working on filling in that box on their screen. FinCEN actually issues guidance on what answers are worthy of further scrutiny; I guess there are dumb criminals out there that will be ensnared one day. Sigh.

My sentiment exactly. What's your side hobby. Exotic/collector Cars ? Not to be nosey. Just curious !! 😎😎😎
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Old 06-21-2016, 10:03 AM   #46
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"Officer, this is what I do with $20k cash."
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Old 06-21-2016, 11:43 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by Islandtraveler View Post
Warren Buffett tells a story of how an IRS official showed up to his office to find out why he had made several monthly $9,000 cash withdrawals which were made for his wife who was redecorating their home. I can understand that. He is a suspicious looking character.
That is the funny part, if I was going to move 20K in cash, I would fear some customer in the bank hearing the teller count out the cash would phone his buddy, and they would mug me outside somewhere.

So I'd move the money in smaller blocks maybe 5K at a time and just make 4 trips over a week or two for safety.

However, a strict interpretation of the law would suggest this is illegal since the gov't is so worried about people moving 10K or more.
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Old 06-21-2016, 01:13 PM   #48
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That is the funny part, if I was going to move 20K in cash, I would fear some customer in the bank hearing the teller count out the cash would phone his buddy, and they would mug me outside somewhere.

So I'd move the money in smaller blocks maybe 5K at a time and just make 4 trips over a week or two for safety.

Of course you then multiply your opportunities of being mugged by a factor of 4. Hmm, what to do...
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Old 06-21-2016, 03:00 PM   #49
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Of course you then multiply your opportunities of being mugged by a factor of 4. Hmm, what to do...
Yep, ideally I'd do it in $1,000 increments as losing 1K is a pain, losing 20K is a horror.
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Old 06-22-2016, 01:24 PM   #50
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Mod note - the thread evolved into a discussion on concealed carry, guns and laws. This is one of the topics our community rules specifically requests we avoid (here), so the posts were removed.
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