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View Poll Results: $300k And You
I'm Doing Just Fine 8 6.56%
A Quarter Or Less 27 22.13%
Less Than Half 15 12.30%
Half 16 13.11%
More Than Half 6 4.92%
More Than Three Quarters 4 3.28%
All That Plus A Bag Of Chips 46 37.70%
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Old 03-18-2011, 05:01 PM   #161
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The challenge for physicians, I have found, is making the right investments. Generally, this is not a field that they know well, so they need good advice. The smart ones realize their knowledge gap in finance and line up solid advisors.
Rich, Meadbh, DoubleDoc and friends will be along shortly to point out the error of your stereotyping.
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Old 03-18-2011, 05:05 PM   #162
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Rich, Meadbh, DoubleDoc and friends will be along shortly to point out the error of your stereotyping.
And hopefully make some disparaging generalizations about lawyers.
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Old 03-18-2011, 05:10 PM   #163
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How much do those white coats that doctors wear cost?
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Old 03-18-2011, 05:15 PM   #164
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Someone has to attend the pricey schools.

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Well, not really.
I suppose that's true. Harvard and Yale and Stanford and UC and the other elite institutions could all shut down because all the world came to believe that there are superior alternatives.

Wouldn't bet on that, though. What we have found instead is that demand for seats in the top schools is skyrocketing, with no limit on the price that they can charge. Asian families especially are willing to scrimp and save to send their children to our leading institutions. The only thing keeping the best from charging more than they do is self-restraint.
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Old 03-18-2011, 05:26 PM   #165
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How much do those white coats that doctors wear cost?

Usually around $35 but most Doctors are so cheap they try to get them from the hospitals for free !
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Old 03-18-2011, 05:26 PM   #166
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How much do those white coats that doctors wear cost?
That's a really good question, Mr. Zero. I don't know the answer. My hunch is that they cost less than hand-made suits but more than the rags that proles wear while sweating up our national parks.

I've had quite enough fun here and will now leave you to yourselves. Ta ta!
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Old 03-18-2011, 05:34 PM   #167
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Envy or disdain will not make such people feel very welcome. If you want a diverse set of ideas presented on this forum I would recommend a civilized and tolerant approach.
Though the door swings both ways...
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Old 03-18-2011, 05:37 PM   #168
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That's a really good question, Mr. Zero. I don't know the answer. My hunch is that they cost less than hand-made suits but more than the rags that proles wear while sweating up our national parks.

I've had quite enough fun here and will now leave you to yourselves. Ta ta!
Yep, shure looks like that rascally ole perfesser iz back, reintar-nated as sum fancy-pants lawyer to diss on us po' unworshed lumpen proletariat folks.

Dontcha love that hand-sewed suit?...
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Old 03-18-2011, 05:50 PM   #169
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Yes - I certainly thought I was hearing echos of "lumpen slums of cyberspace"!

Audrey

Still ROTFLOL over the "Someone has to attend the pricey schools" line.
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Old 03-18-2011, 05:53 PM   #170
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That's a really good question, Mr. Zero. I don't know the answer. My hunch is that they cost less than hand-made suits but more than the rags that proles wear while sweating up our national parks.

I've had quite enough fun here and will now leave you to yourselves. Ta ta!
Guess I'll never make the Inner Party now, shucks. Where's my Speedstick?
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Old 03-18-2011, 06:05 PM   #171
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I've had quite enough fun here and will now leave you to yourselves. Ta ta!
I'm betting you're still peeking in the window to see how the riff-raff behave when they we think you're gone....
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Old 03-18-2011, 06:10 PM   #172
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I'm betting you're still peeking in the window to see how the riff-raff behave when they we think you're gone....
I'll start.

Pretty thin skin for a hardened Loop Lawyer, you'd expect them to be a bit tougher.
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Old 03-18-2011, 06:20 PM   #173
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And to think I originally came on here merely to find out if I had enough money to retire......
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Old 03-18-2011, 06:36 PM   #174
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Agreed! And it's a very positive attribute of your chosen profession. I couldn't tell you anything about my radiologist, for example -- not even his or her name. And my radiologist need not "court me" at a club or over dinner: That doctor has my business without trying in the least. Just do the job, and do it well, and it's an annuity. How satisfying that must be!

The challenge for physicians, I have found, is making the right investments. Generally, this is not a field that they know well, so they need good advice. The smart ones realize their knowledge gap in finance and line up solid advisors.
Funny you mention it...my field is radiology. Believe it or not, there are a few sub-specializations in radiology that have more than minimal patient contact (most radiologist do at least some minor procedures/biopsies/fluoroscopy). Mammography and Interventional radiology come to mind. I actually plan on doing interventional neuroradiology. That said, a nerdy looking guy in scrubs is kind of what my patients will expect! :-)

Medicine is probably the best way a "normal" person can safely make decent amount of money. If you are smart enough and (more importantly) willing to put up with 11-15 years of training after high school, you are guaranteed a solid lower upper class income and a job you can feel really good about at the end of the day. The thing is, your realistic earning ceiling is in the 800k-1 million range and only that if you work crazy hours and do something like spinal or mohs surgery (BTW, most docs make a 1/4 or less of the ceiling). The ceiling is higher in law and non-existent in business.

You are right about the poor investment choices. I cringe in the reading room all the time when I overhear staff give each other advice on investments/trading. The thing is, when they do seek professional advice, they waaaaay overpay. In fact, I have spent the last year trying to talk one guy into dropping his 3% per year advisor!
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Old 03-18-2011, 06:51 PM   #175
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That said, a nerdy looking guy in scrubs is kind of what my patients will expect! :-)
I got one heck of a surprise when the nerdy looking guy in glasses I expected as my doctor turned out to be a bodybuilding ex-SEAL.
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Old 03-18-2011, 06:56 PM   #176
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Wow! I left the home to go to my daughter's new home to help install some mini-blinds, and just came back to find how this ended. I knew it! I can say it's déjà vu, even though I have not been on this forum long.


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... they cost less than hand-made suits but more than the rags that proles wear while sweating up our national parks.
Man, oh man! Taking cue from another thread, perhaps people should start taking up streaking through national parks, so they would not be judged by their clothes. However, this means that I would no longer be able to frequent NPs myself. You see, I have this old-fashioned sense of modesty.
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Old 03-18-2011, 07:37 PM   #177
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Loop Lawyer is right about one thing: MDs can be really bad investors, because we are trained to trust people. The docs on this board are the exceptions.

Moe is right about another thing: white coats cost about $35. But they are an infection risk, and the best way for an MD to dress while seeing patients is short sleeves (facilitating handwashing up to the elbows). Scrubs work well, they are comfortable, and you toss them in the hospital laundry bin and put on your jeans before going home. Most MDs that I know have "one good suit" unless they are in upper management. Then they have two or three.

In contrast to Radiohead, my earnings ceiling is more like $300K. I've had a fair amount of legal work done lately, and I've paid the lawyers approximately three times my own hourly rate. I don't give a rat's ass what type of car my lawyer drives or whether he / she drinks Chateau Lafite. Just do a good job and treat me nicely, and we'll get along. The CEOs that I know (and I do know a few) wouldn't care either.

I'm frugal, but I have no problem with people who can afford it spending whatever they want. I do recognize that in some circles image is key to success. Danmar and Loop Lawyer deserve credit for being honest about this. I'm glad not to be on that treadmill.
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Old 03-18-2011, 07:42 PM   #178
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That is one thing I like about medicine, you don't have to "play a part" to be successful. Sure, lots of docs spend most (or all) of their money on a high end lifestyle, but it isn't "required". In private practice there aren't any rungs to climb like in a corporation. While there are a few predatory groups out there, in general when you join a group you can expect to be a full partner in a couple years or less...it is a given. As long as you take good care of your patients, nobody cares if you get all your clothes from Target and drive a 20 year old beater.

Compare this to business and law where it is very, very common for those on the top of the pyramid to make a killing off taking advantage of those below them. My SO has a friend whose first job out of law school was for a guy in the Chicago area who not only was mob connected and liked to fraudulently bill his clients, but was the only "partner" in a firm of ~15. Essentially no associate stayed for longer than a year. He lives VERY extravagently, but his whole life is a giant fraud. It seems like in law and business there is generally a lot of game playing and/or shadiness to advance. I prefer to stay away. I may still check out the book though.
Being a geek, I always thought advancement in the engineering field was more like the medical profession as you just described. It was certainly true when I started working in the early 80s.

Back then, after a few years of working, nobody cared about what prestigious school an engineer graduated from. All they asked a guy was what he had been producing lately. All my career was spent in R&D departments of large corps. There might be other companies that did not have the same esprit de corps, but my experience was that a guy who flaunted his class ring or hinted about his background would immediately get sneered. We just didn't talk about it. Indeed, an experienced engineer should have some work achievements to show other than his diploma.

Recently, many megacorps are now run like businesses that believe in outsourcing work to other countries. Some do not even know that they should at least maintain some core competencies. So, they start to value managers more than real producing engineers, and as it is more difficult to judge a manager skill than the tangible work of an engineer, they start to rely more on the nebulous aspects. Thus, the rise of the ass-kissers, the shirkers of responsibilities, the back-stabbers, the meeting-goers, etc...

Some people do not believe that Dilbert's cartoons are real-life portrayals, but sadly it is. I find it difficult to laugh.
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Old 03-18-2011, 08:00 PM   #179
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Warning this is long!

Me.... I've had big bucks from business and well... didn't care for the social circles and stress associated with the treadmill. That's not directed at anyone here, and if they are comfortable with the folks they surround themselves with good for them. Rich, poor or in between, I've found likable people and people who were snobs about what they have as well as people who were snobbish in their own poor way by constantly living a life of envy or with a "poor mentality" about money. Happiness is between ears, not between the folds of a fat or thin wallet.

Me, I find more happiness building an engine and restoring a hot rod than buying Porsche and its not because I couldn't afford one. I've done the "one payment plan" before with a rather expensive vehicle. After a while... the thrill wore off and the only way it could be replaced was by doing it again, which I declined. I took it out of service, modified the engine, transmission and suspension, did some fabrication... and there's always a new thrill I can think of to "make it my own model." I'd rather build a classic Cobra kit car, drive around cruise-ins and smoke the tires at lights than tool around in a luxury car. I downsized the house after realizing it didn't do much for me. I now have a small ranch house with a few acres in the country, enjoy the slower pace of life and have large workshop out back. That's where I find my happiness... building things with my hands. Heck, I even enjoy cleaning up the shop, especially on a very hot day where nothing feels more satisfying than downing an ice cold diet Coke. I know how to and can enjoy a great dry aged steak and the best gourmet meal but I find beers with people casually laughing it up at a local joint more enjoyable --- especially if there's an old fart there spinning yarns about his youth. I find rubbing grease off my hands at the end of the day far more rewarding on an emotional level. Yeah, cars are a hobby of mine, not my income... but I've busted my ass at work and busted my knuckles under a greasy engine so I've seen both sides of the coin. For me, I've found that you can wash dirt and grease off in a shower but no shower takes away the stress of a tough day at the office, especially those weeks when I put 80 hours (or more on occasion, no kidding), or worse, a week of travel no matter how fancy. Getting pampered by doormen wearing tails, bellhops who act like they are your best friend, having an expensive gift basket awaiting me in the room and a classy waitress at my cocktail table was fun but the conversation was always thin. The only "deep" conversations were the intricacies of business.

So, I guess I'm a simple man, with simple tastes, who's been there, done that... and found my place in life where I fit. I wear faded blue jeans and t-shirts year round, and shorts in the summer. I don't give a damn if the shirt has a stain on it either... what other people think doesn't impact me. The suits come out only for weddings and funerals. While I certainly prefer first class flying over cramped coach the fancy hotels do little to nothing for me... I'm not there to spend my time at the hotel. I'm there to spend as much time with a line in the water looking to catch a big fish! On the rare occasions I go to a high end hotel it's for an romantic weekend getaway with my wife, but we still spend the majority of the time window shopping, too busy sharing our thoughts with each other to spend much money. Heck, 99% of the enjoy is having each other around without having the kids around! lol When I meet with my financial adviser sometimes I get a chuckle wondering if he cringes when shaking my hand because there may be grease under my fingernails!

I'm 43, been retired for 3 years and loving it. Sure, I can find plenty things to do with $300K per year. Anyone who says they can't, well, they probably aren't trying hard. The first year it would be easy to blow some serious cash on machining equipment that I'd rarely use, maybe a dynometer and the best vehicle lift you can buy, and perhaps a 68 Camaro and 64 Mustang convertible but after that my vehicle wants are met. Perhaps I'd spend a good chunk on house sitters so I could take a long road trip with the wife to visit the lower 48 states, and perhaps take the 4x4 for a drive up to Alaska. After that... maybe I'd increase my joy by stuffing money into a single mother's purse at church around Christmas, or having a box of clothes for her kids dropped off anonymously. An absolute blast would be to take all of the gift cards for the needy at Christmas off the tree at a local church and personally insuring all those kids had the best toys, and give them a Christmas they'll remember the rest of their lives. Hard to say exactly what I'd do, but I would try to do something positive with it. And yes, blow some frivolously but can't see it happening much... it's just not me.
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Old 03-18-2011, 08:47 PM   #180
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Meadbh: Not sure what treadmill you think I'm on? Retired for almost 5 years and having a ball. Cheers.
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