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Old 01-24-2016, 11:23 AM   #21
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For those complaining of the firewall - very simple trick... Take the title of the article and put it in a google search. You have to be in the google search results page - and click through - and you'll bypass the firewall.

Here's the google search for those who can't understand this. Click on the first result link.
https://www.google.com/search?q=Comp...sm=93&ie=UTF-8
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Old 01-24-2016, 11:23 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by BBQ-Nut View Post
Well, if your plan calls for tapping your 401k using the rule of 55, then it is better to leave it.


There is no automatic 'rule' that says you should/need to roll it out.
+1

I left it where it was just for the added benefit. It's really plan B for a couple more years. Maybe longer, I have access to all the Vanguard funds I need at institutional rates. Why move?

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Old 01-24-2016, 11:32 AM   #23
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In today's WJS is an article about companies urging retirees to leave their money in the companies' plans.

Yeah right. Most are high overhead.

Companies Urge Retiring Workers to Leave Something Behind—Their Money - WSJ
That depends on company. I can get S&P 500 at 2 cents on hundred dollars in fees and 401k gives me iron safe protection from Creditors which you will never get in private IRA account
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Old 01-24-2016, 11:39 AM   #24
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If you are worried about creditor protections, keep working or clean up your act.
By law it is too late to worry about creditors after you got involved in for example some messy accident and you find out that insurance will pay only 300k out of million plus dollar settlement.

Now probability of that is low, but it is good to be prepared.
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Old 01-24-2016, 11:43 AM   #25
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Depends on the company plan. Mine charges between 5x and 10x the ER I can get on my own in an IRA. A plain SP500 index fund is at about 0.6% instead of 0.06% ER. Most funds are over 1.2% ER. As soon as I am able I will pull all my investments out of this horrible plan.

I have some friends with excellent 401k plans with low ER and great fund choices. They will likely want to leave their money in such good plans.
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Old 01-24-2016, 11:45 AM   #26
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I rolled my 401(k) to an IRA, but now I wish I'd left it there to take advantage of the stable interest fund that pays more than bonds or CDs.
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Old 01-24-2016, 11:51 AM   #27
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My orphaned 401k has a fixed fund at about 2.15% which I can't get anywhere else.
It has Vanguard Institutional Index (S&P 500) and Total Bond funds.
While my state protects IRAs from lawsuits, but not all states do. So If I move I am protected.
Diversity in having an account separate outside my other accounts.
If I get another job I could roll over the 401k to the new employer preserving the "rule of 55" possibility.
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Old 01-24-2016, 11:56 AM   #28
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When you move it, you have 100% control and more investment options. I m moving mine. Your private investment account will be larger and you may get more perks. Fees will very likely be less.

If you are worried about creditor protections, keep working or clean up your act.
and after you move the money you are paying retail, you don't get to use other participants' forfeitures to lower your fees and....you won't get the option of a full or partial annuity payout in case your plan has one

even if you purchase an annuity with your rollover, again, it will be retail

good luck finding a stable value fund outside of an employer-sponsored DC plan

I think many retirees would like to take a partial lump sum distribution and use the rest to buy an immediate annuity or QLAC from the plan if offered - why not use risk pooling?

I can't think of a good reason TO take the money out, entirely, after retirement but I'm sure many FAs suggest you move it - those TV commercials encouraging rollovers to retail IRAs are silly

I didn't read the article but I'm sure it makes those points
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Old 01-24-2016, 12:03 PM   #29
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It does depend on the company's plan and what is offered...

My old mega has a very low cost plan.... some of the funds are a couple of basis points.... their stock fund is zero cost... the selection is not as good as having your money outside, but I take this into consideration with my investments and invest in funds that I like...


BTW, I left mine there because I have money in company stock... I will be able to take that stock out of the plan and only have to pay income tax on my cost basis... all the gain will come to me and only be taxed if I sell the stock... if I rolled the whole amount over, I would have to pay regular income taxes on that gain... probably a $10K to $20K savings in taxes when I do it...
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Old 01-24-2016, 12:05 PM   #30
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I left mine in place mostly for the stable value fund. It beats most fixed income alternatives. Also megacorp was a dividend payer and the dividends from company stock can be passed through without any restrictions. The funds are mostly institutional and trust funds ( TRowe and Vanguard ) so the fees aren't bad.
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Old 01-24-2016, 12:07 PM   #31
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I left mine in place mostly for the stable value fund. It beats most fixed income alternatives. Also megacorp was a dividend payer and the dividends from company stock can be passed through without any restrictions. The funds are mostly institutional and trust funds ( TRowe and Vanguard ) so the fees aren't bad.
my stable value fund has saved me so far this year

one of the things we need to look at is the duration of our stable value funds

if inflation ever spikes again, everyone who has a stable value fund will intimately know the definition of duration
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Old 01-24-2016, 12:18 PM   #32
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Another reason to leave it in a 401K is if you have an IRA with after-tax contributions that you're planning to convert to a Roth IRA during early retirement. You don't want any more pre-tax money in an IRA if that's part of your strategy. And keeping it in a separate IRA won't help as the IRS treats them all as a single pool of money when calculating the tax due on a conversion, while it completely ignores whatever you have in a 401K.
+1

This is what we did with DW's old 401K, since we are doing backdoor Roth contributions. It wouldn't have worked as well if we had rolled over to an IRA.
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Old 01-24-2016, 12:22 PM   #33
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I left mine in place mostly for the stable value fund. It beats most fixed income alternatives. Also megacorp was a dividend payer and the dividends from company stock can be passed through without any restrictions. The funds are mostly institutional and trust funds ( TRowe and Vanguard ) so the fees aren't bad.
That is a great point. I forgot about that one and I don't see it mentioned often.
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Old 01-24-2016, 12:33 PM   #34
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When you move it, you have 100% control and more investment options.
This varies. I have 100% control of my funds at the MegaCorp 401k. But, in my case, you are correct about investment options. My MegaCorp 401k only offers low cost index funds. I have to do my individual stock and bond trading, options, actiively managed MF's, etc., in my brokerage or IRA accounts at Schwab. My 401k is my boring account where I have a target AA and rebalance basic, low cost index funds once a year or so.

Also, when doing Roth conversions of my mixed pre and post tax TIRA, leaving the 401k money in the 401k kept my costs minimalized.
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Your private investment account will be larger and you may get more perks. Fees will very likely be less.
Again, varies. Even with leaving my 401k at MegaCorp, my brokerage account, TIRA and Roth at Schwab more than qualify me for max perks. And my MegaCorp 401k fund ER's are equal to or less than Vanguard Admiral. I think the important thing to note is that 401k's vary in costs and services just as brokerage accounts do. Your situation is true for you only and while I'm sure you didn't intend to broad-brush your situation across eveyone, it sounded a bit that way. So, I just wanted to clear things up that your comments apply only to your situation.
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Old 01-24-2016, 12:43 PM   #35
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I've worked for a number of companies and none have had a 401k I was altogether happy with. So, after departure, I always roll it into my IRA where I have many more choices to invest as I see fit.


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Old 01-24-2016, 12:48 PM   #36
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401k gives me iron safe protection from Creditors which you will never get in private IRA account
Not true. Some states like mine provide full protection for a rollover IRA as long as you don't co-mingle it with other IRAs.
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Old 01-24-2016, 12:50 PM   #37
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Depends on the company plan..........
I have some friends with excellent 401k plans with low ER and great fund choices. They will likely want to leave their money in such good plans.
There ya go! It varies from plan to plan.
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Old 01-24-2016, 12:52 PM   #38
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I've worked for a number of companies and none have had a 401k I was altogether happy with. So, after departure, I always roll it into my IRA where I have many more choices to invest as I see fit.


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I always roll mine into my new employer's 401k - I have a lot of old thrift (pre-roth after-tax contributions) in mine

I've never even considered rolling k money into an IRA, you lose a ton of flexibility as I've mentioned above, plus it can be more expensive

FAs should be telling the whole story before soliciting people to roll in to their IRA products - just goes to show you where they put their interests
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Old 01-24-2016, 12:53 PM   #39
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Some states like mine provide full protection ..........
It's that word "some" you need to understand and research. It varies.
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Old 01-24-2016, 01:00 PM   #40
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It's that word "some" you need to understand and research. It varies.
True but to say that you will never get the same protection of a 401K is not accurate. Not only I researched it before I rolled it over but I consulted an attorney who advised not to co mingle the funds with another IRA.
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