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Re: Let's make believe you did have a Financial Planner
Old 12-12-2006, 04:19 PM   #21
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Re: Let's make believe you did have a Financial Planner

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If I knew how to make 50% returns consistently, I would put it on a CD, and charge $10,000 a copy for it..........
No, no, no, you'd run seminars & training classes because you love the subject and enjoy meeting people whom you can treat like family!
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Re: Let's make believe you did have a Financial Planner
Old 12-12-2006, 04:24 PM   #22
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Re: Let's make believe you did have a Financial Planner

I can easily come up with a scenario in which I would happily pay a (modest) percentage of assets or other fee structure for competent, unconflicted advice: if I croaked. DW has little clue about finance, even though she is no dummy. I have tried, but she isn't interested, so it doesn't stick. If I could find a planner I was comfy with, I'd happily point her in their direction in my "what to do with the money if I drop dead" sheet.
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Re: Let's make believe you did have a Financial Planner
Old 12-12-2006, 05:14 PM   #23
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Re: Let's make believe you did have a Financial Planner

If I had brazillions in assets, I'd probably be willing to hire someone to manage all my tax dodges my portfolio...

My current and projected financial situation does not warrant any expert advice I can't get from the internet the library.
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Re: Let's make believe you did have a Financial Planner
Old 12-12-2006, 10:04 PM   #24
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Re: Let's make believe you did have a Financial Planner

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Originally Posted by brewer12345
I can easily come up with a scenario in which I would happily pay a (modest) percentage of assets or other fee structure for competent, unconflicted advice: if I croaked. DW has little clue about finance, even though she is no dummy. I have tried, but she isn't interested, so it doesn't stick. If I could find a planner I was comfy with, I'd happily point her in their direction in my "what to do with the money if I drop dead" sheet.
Sounds like my wife.............
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Re: Let's make believe you did have a Financial Planner
Old 12-13-2006, 09:37 AM   #25
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Re: Let's make believe you did have a Financial Planner

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I can easily come up with a scenario in which I would happily pay a (modest) percentage of assets or other fee structure for competent, unconflicted advice: if I croaked. DW has little clue about finance, even though she is no dummy. I have tried, but she isn't interested, so it doesn't stick. If I could find a planner I was comfy with, I'd happily point her in their direction in my "what to do with the money if I drop dead" sheet.
I am not much interested in the financial planning stuff either. How much posting do I do on the allocation threads and fund threads? Nuthin. Greg does all of that. He has a "what to do with the money if I drop dead" sheet as well. He tries to talk to me about finance but I see it as not part of my job description so I am not very cooperative.

But, if worst came to worst, I would learn what I need to know. Good chance your wife would too. But for now, we are taking care of other business.
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Re: Let's make believe you did have a Financial Planner
Old 12-13-2006, 12:01 PM   #26
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Re: Let's make believe you did have a Financial Planner

My DW have discussed the afterlife if I kick off, and I have suggested that she switch to a diversified index strategy with low cost MERs. Because she views what I do as works (individual stocks and bonds), she is willing to accept a lower return. Plus I carry $500k life insurance to compensate for the lower returns and loss of pension.

Having said that. I would love to find the ideal planner that I described upthread because we would start using them now.
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Re: Let's make believe you did have a Financial Planner
Old 12-14-2006, 10:23 AM   #27
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Re: Let's make believe you did have a Financial Planner

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What I'd like is to pay for a product: An indepth analysis that will likely produce results. I sit down with the planner for 30 minutes, show him my current setup and my goals. He figures out the optimum strategy, and compares it to how I would have done, net of taxes, over X number of Firecalc-like periods of 20 years. He tells me the results and enough info to know he did it fair and square, but not enough info to give away how he did it. Then, he presents a bill. If we agree on a price, he delivers a product: A report showing how to achieve the optimum results and the rationale for same. I think something like this, well documented with a step-by step implementation plan, would be worth several thousand dollars to me, and I'd pay it without a peep. And, I think the right guy/gal could crank one of these custom reports out in 8-10 hours of work once he/she had the tools in place.
Don't know how we could give you enough to "have a taste", but not "give it all away". And to do that on an hourly rate?

I guess one way would be to have a flat fee for consultation, like $150 or something. Then the client and I could go over everything, which might take 90 minutes to 2 hours, or more depending on the complexity of the situation.

Then, I would run different scenarios for the client, and present the best strategy. The question is: Would YOU implement the strategy, have ME implement it, or what?

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Re: Let's make believe you did have a Financial Planner
Old 12-14-2006, 11:10 AM   #28
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Re: Let's make believe you did have a Financial Planner

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Don't know how we could give you enough to "have a taste", but not "give it all away". And to do that on an hourly rate?

I guess one way would be to have a flat fee for consultation, like $150 or something. Then the client and I could go over everything, which might take 90 minutes to 2 hours, or more depending on the complexity of the situation.

Then, I would run different scenarios for the client, and present the best strategy. The question is: Would YOU implement the strategy, have ME implement it, or what?
If customers saw and liked the sample product the FA had done for someone else, they'd proably be willing to pay a relatively modest flat fee for the consultation ($100 to $200). I would think this would be necessary for the FA to not only pay for his time but also to screen out folks who are unlikely to buy the finished product.
--In my case, I'd want the product to be something I could implement myself. I'd probably want to sit down for an hour with the FA every year or two to discuss course corrections due to changes in tax laws/changes in my goals/to consult with him on ideas I've had on how to optimize return). The FA would probably have me "hooked" as a client, as the FA built the plan and knows the reasoning behind it. Others might want the FA to implement their plan and keep it going every year, and I would think this could be done for a flat annual fee. (The annual work on the part of the FA would probably involve portfolio rebabalncing to stay within the bounds of the plan and to minimize taxes, and to provide consolidated info to the client to allow tax preparation by the client or others. Maybe 2-4 hours of work for most situations?).

No load funds, no wrap fees-- just payment for a service.
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Re: Let's make believe you did have a Financial Planner
Old 12-14-2006, 11:13 AM   #29
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Re: Let's make believe you did have a Financial Planner

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If customers saw and liked the sample product the FA had done for someone else, they'd proably be willing to pay a relatively modest flat fee for the consultation ($100 to $200). I would think this would be necessary for the FA to not only pay for his time but also to screen out folks who are unlikely to buy the finished product.
--In my case, I'd want the product to be something I could implement myself. I'd probably want to sit down for an hour with the FA every year or two to discuss course corrections due to changes in tax laws/changes in my goals/to consult with him on ideas I've had on how to optimize return). The FA would probably have me "hooked" as a client, as the FA built the plan and knows the reasoning behind it. Others might want the FA to implement their plan and keep it going every year, and I would think this could be done for a flat annual fee. (The annual work on the part of the FA would probably involve portfolio rebabalncing to stay within the bounds of the plan and to minimize taxes, and to provide consolidated info to the client to allow tax preparation by the client or others. Maybe 2-4 hours of work for most situations?).

No load funds, no wrap fees-- just payment for a service.
I guess that's why I'm going to get the CFP, to be able to offer the flat fee, and keep my fee business if they want me to implement. Seems to be the way things are moving............
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Re: Let's make believe you did have a Financial Planner
Old 12-14-2006, 11:19 AM   #30
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Re: Let's make believe you did have a Financial Planner

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Originally Posted by samclem
If customers saw and liked the sample product the FA had done for someone else, they'd proably be willing to pay a relatively modest flat fee for the consultation ($100 to $200)...Maybe 2-4 hours of work for most situations?).

No load funds, no wrap fees-- just payment for a service.
Just a hunch, but I don't think you are going to get to many qualified FP to give you 2 to 4 hours of service time for $100 to $200. I think I pay more than that for an average auto mechanic.

What's the going hourly rate these days for a good FP?
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Re: Let's make believe you did have a Financial Planner
Old 12-14-2006, 11:21 AM   #31
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Re: Let's make believe you did have a Financial Planner

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Just a hunch, but I don't think you are going to get to many qualified FP to give you 2 to 4 hours of service time for $100 to $200. I think I pay more than that for an average auto mechanic.

What's the going hourly rate these days for a good FP?
As low as $75 an hour, and I know one guy who charges $350, but he operates in a complex niche with very high net worth folks..........

Most are around $100-$150 an hour............
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Re: Let's make believe you did have a Financial Planner
Old 12-14-2006, 11:24 AM   #32
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Re: Let's make believe you did have a Financial Planner

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Just a hunch, but I don't think you are going to get to many qualified FP to give you 2 to 4 hours of service time for $100 to $200. I think I pay more than that for an average auto mechanic.

What's the going hourly rate these days for a good FP?
The planner here charges $250/hr
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Re: Let's make believe you did have a Financial Planner
Old 12-14-2006, 03:49 PM   #33
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Re: Let's make believe you did have a Financial Planner

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The planner here charges $250/hr
Yeah, but you guys cater to the over $5 million crowd, right??
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Re: Let's make believe you did have a Financial Planner
Old 12-14-2006, 07:28 PM   #34
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Re: Let's make believe you did have a Financial Planner

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Yeah, but you guys cater to the over $5 million crowd, right??
yup! Compared to their accountants and lawyers thats way cheap

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Re: Let's make believe you did have a Financial Planner
Old 12-15-2006, 10:08 AM   #35
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Re: Let's make believe you did have a Financial Planner

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yup! Compared to their accountants and lawyers thats way cheap
True, but you guys run it kind of like a private bank or trust company. If a guy/gal was going to offer it to the "masses", I think the numbers I posted are in the ballpark.

Problem is, you would need a LOT of clients doing them to make money after expenses.............
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Re: Let's make believe you did have a Financial Planner
Old 12-15-2006, 11:18 AM   #36
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Re: Let's make believe you did have a Financial Planner

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Most are around $100-$150 an hour............
That shocks me. If someone charges a percentage, or takes a commission then they must make 10 times that, don't they? Why would any FP go the fee for service route if they make so little?
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Re: Let's make believe you did have a Financial Planner
Old 12-15-2006, 11:28 AM   #37
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Re: Let's make believe you did have a Financial Planner

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That shocks me. If someone charges a percentage, or takes a commission then they must make 10 times that, don't they? Why would any FP go the fee for service route if they make so little?
Economics of the situation. I know of two CFP's that quit because they couldn't get enough fee for service income to survive.

Unless they offer RIA services, or a fee arrangement, I don't think a lot of them will survive.............
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Re: Let's make believe you did have a Financial Planner
Old 12-16-2006, 05:35 AM   #38
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Re: Let's make believe you did have a Financial Planner

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Economics of the situation. I know of two CFP's that quit because they couldn't get enough fee for service income to survive.

Unless they offer RIA services, or a fee arrangement, I don't think a lot of them will survive.............
Just throwing in my two cents..This says so much and is what it all boils down to. Clements and others often promote going to a hourly-fee or retainer financial planner. Yet, the financial planner needs tremendous volume to make a decent living. Thus we see many more commission-based FAs/FPs and AUM-Fee-Based FPs than we would otherwise. "By the hour-fee based is a business model that is difficult to make work "across the board".
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Re: Let's make believe you did have a Financial Planner
Old 12-16-2006, 08:48 AM   #39
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Re: Let's make believe you did have a Financial Planner

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Just throwing in my two cents..This says so much and is what it all boils down to. Clements and others often promote going to a hourly-fee or retainer financial planner. Yet, the financial planner needs tremendous volume to make a decent living. Thus we see many more commission-based FAs/FPs and AUM-Fee-Based FPs than we would otherwise. "By the hour-fee based is a business model that is difficult to make work "across the board".
I doubt anyone would keep an FP on retainer, unless they had a huge family foundation or something.

Most if not all hourly FP's are CFPs. There are only about 20,000 CFPs in the US, as opposed to 600,000 registered securities folks.
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Re: Let's make believe you did have a Financial Planner
Old 12-16-2006, 10:50 AM   #40
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Re: Let's make believe you did have a Financial Planner

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That shocks me. If someone charges a percentage, or takes a commission then they must make 10 times that, don't they? Why would any FP go the fee for service route if they make so little?
A good fee based RIA can make from $200-500K around here. To do that you need to be an expert at client building. Thankfully the folks I work for have separated the portfolio management and client building activities because I would starve on the latter. I know I will never make the high end of that range, but I know that I can do a good job on the former.

Yes, a CFP can make more on asset fees as opposed to hourly. Its nowhere near 5 or ten times but it is more. Despite what people here think, asset management is a very time consuming process when it's your business.


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