Lets run some Pension numbers

[leftbucket]

Quote:

Originally Posted by haha Please, be a little more modest and speak for yourself.

Ha-

I respect your input. However,

WCV's post was unnecessarily inflammatory and accusatory,
very confusing, not relevant, and poorly edited. (Does he really want workers to "bare" the expense)

If anyone else can argue merit for his comment, I'll retract my
statement. Until then...

[leftbucket]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wcv56 My taxes on U.S. investments (where all my savings and investments are located) and work are more than most salaries and I pay into SS so I am a concerned tax payer. I would rather have my taxes go to a system with more and better services and servants than an expensive elitist system for the few that are to good to use what is forced on the majority and payers of their system.

So you're somewhere overseas and you want "more and better
services and servants" for policing in Dallas, Texas? He just explained the 27.5% that you seem so concerned about.

Please stop wasting __________'s time.

[wcv56]

sorry about the comments but I never heard of someone getting such % put into a retirement system by an employer.

[ERD50]

Quote:

Originally Posted by utrecht I realize that 27.5% seems high, but our salary is also 10-15% lower than most every suburb in the area. In fact we have the lowest starting salary of the 36 largest police departments in North Texas (along with the most dangerous city to work in). They could cut their contributions back to 12% and give me a 15.5% raise and I would be happy as a clam because I would invest every penny of the raise.

That really helps put things in perspective. If we truly have a "pay as you go" pension system as so many of us are calling for, it really doesn't make much difference if it is 'provided' or if the worker does it himself. Though a group can average out longevity risk. And of course, some people just wouldn't do it.

-ERD50

[akck]

One thing that may be missing from your comparison is retirement healthcare. Many plans provide healthcare as part of the benefit, so you can't assume all of the city's portion would be available for you to invest.

[utrecht]

Quote:

Originally Posted by akck One thing that may be missing from your comparison is retirement healthcare. Many plans provide healthcare as part of the benefit, so you can't assume all of the city's portion would be available for you to invest.

My pension plan doesn't proved any healthcare benefits at all.

[meierlde]

Actually what hurts the DB plans is what is called the final pay formula i.e. x% per year times the average of the highest y years. (In Ca I understand that Y =1 for public safety, and that overtime counts in the pay). One simple fix to that is Y=3 out of 5 and overtime can add say 15%. Or go to a more career averaged formula such as SS uses to figure the average. They take SS wages times some multiplier based upon wage changes up until you hit 62. It would result in lower payouts but limit the damage.

[utrecht]

Quote:

Originally Posted by meierlde Actually what hurts the DB plans is what is called the final pay formula i.e. x% per year times the average of the highest y years. (In Ca I understand that Y =1 for public safety, and that overtime counts in the pay). One simple fix to that is Y=3 out of 5 and overtime can add say 15%. Or go to a more career averaged formula such as SS uses to figure the average. They take SS wages times some multiplier based upon wage changes up until you hit 62. It would result in lower payouts but limit the damage.

That's true, but a lot of plans, including mine, aren't like that but yet they still get lumped into the discussion of how we cant afford public pensions anymore.

With my plan "Y" =3 and ZERO overtime is included. In fact, about 20% of my pay is counted as "special" pay and is not counted either. "Special pay" could be shift pay, language pay, education pay and things like that.

[Nords]

Quote:

Originally Posted by leftbucket I notice most of the long time posters steer away from these discussions probably because they're tired of them, but I'm still relatively new and ignorant so I'll jump in.

Nah, we just decide that some posters won't stop pounding on their one-key pianos and add them to our "Ignore Poster" list...