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Old 08-10-2009, 03:29 PM   #21
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These things stink not primarily because of leverage, but because of their design and implementation.

I do think that since it is almost impossible to make any money long these products, they may make excellent shorts. If you don't overreach and have any luck at all it should work. I haven't tried it yet, because I want to be damn sure before I lay out any money. They may also be pretty safe to sell options against, if you are sure you have the relationships worked out.

One hazard to true short positions in these ETFs is regulators are getting interested in this area, and if they get around to doing anything it might be hard to predict what they might do, and what effects it might have.

Ha
Any idea how practical these things are to short? I would be interested in shorting both the double or triple long and short ETF. A while ago I was trying to figure out how to short US treasury bond, it was one of those positioning, where I was confident of the direction but not at all confident of the timing. I went through the list of government bond ETF, and not a single one was available for shorting via Schwab.
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Old 08-10-2009, 04:43 PM   #22
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Any idea how practical these things are to short? I would be interested in shorting both the double or triple long and short ETF. A while ago I was trying to figure out how to short US treasury bond, it was one of those positioning, where I was confident of the direction but not at all confident of the timing. I went through the list of government bond ETF, and not a single one was available for shorting via Schwab.
I abandoned the idea because volume was poor and spreads wide. Also, it could get a lot worse. which makes a short position kind of dicey. I like teh idea, but the details seemed daunting.

Ha
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Old 08-10-2009, 10:13 PM   #23
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Got a question: Are ETFs that deal in futures considered to be leveraged ETFs? I'd like to know since I own such an ETF, "UNG."
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Old 08-10-2009, 10:41 PM   #24
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Got a question: Are ETFs that deal in futures considered to be leveraged ETFs? I'd like to know since I own such an ETF, "UNG."
Carefully read the prospectus. I did, and I sold UNG.

Ha
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Old 08-10-2009, 11:35 PM   #25
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Guess I bought the UNG you sold. But, how is it that you bought UNG before you read the prospectus?
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Old 08-19-2009, 10:29 PM   #26
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Guess I bought the UNG you sold. But, how is it that you bought UNG before you read the prospectus?
I'm stupid?
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Old 08-19-2009, 10:52 PM   #27
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Great. I bought UNG shares from a stupid man. Hey, it's the greater fool theory in action, right here in the Early Retirement Forum. Guess I gotta remember to pay attention to Ha and consult my proctologist for whatever it may be I am seeking. But, then, I would be listening to the advice of Ha once again. And, as for my proctologist...there's a guy who doesn't know my ass from my elbow--which makes for the most unusual colonoscopy. Anyhow, I sold off all my shares of UNG following the lead of Ha. I hope the proctologist bought them. I'm sure he didn't read the prospectus.
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