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Old 10-18-2007, 12:46 PM   #61
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We were so poor, we were sold for medical experiments...

In much of flyover country, one could live in a 3/1 1200sf home with no A/C, have one moderately priced sedan, with one stay-at-home mom, on one salary...
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Old 10-18-2007, 12:48 PM   #62
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Supply and Demand

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Originally Posted by Nords View Post
While I can believe that men's income has dropped, it's hard to believe that working women are the cause. Do you have a link that supports that causality?
I suppose it makes sense to expect that if the workforce is essentially doubled, more people are chasing (essentially) the same number of jobs, so overall wages would decline.

But of course things are not so simplistic; there are multiple factors to consider.
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Old 10-18-2007, 03:49 PM   #63
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But of course things are not so simplistic; there are multiple factors to consider.
Yes, especially the unavoidable competition from other workers around the world.
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Old 10-18-2007, 04:55 PM   #64
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Economically, I believe life is harder for the average kid trying to pay for college. Unless we can reproduce the free college the WWII generation had, or the cheaper tuition that us boomers had, our country will continue its economic decline as we become ever more uneducated compared to other countries.

Sociologically, I believe it is much better now. Racial and sex discrimination is not only recognized, but illegal, so there is less of it. And thanks to Rowe v. Wade, women have more control over the direction of their lives when birth control fails. That is huge.

It's so cool to talk with young women today and hear how they take their equal rights for granted, the rights that we boomer women had to fight for.
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Old 10-19-2007, 01:09 PM   #65
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Economically, I believe life is harder for the average kid trying to pay for college. Unless we can reproduce the free college the WWII generation had, or the cheaper tuition that us boomers had, our country will continue its economic decline as we become ever more uneducated compared to other countries.

Sociologically, I believe it is much better now. Racial and sex discrimination is not only recognized, but illegal, so there is less of it. And thanks to Rowe v. Wade, women have more control over the direction of their lives when birth control fails. That is huge.
I agree with you 100% that college costs are completely out of control. Why? For the same reason that housing prices were out of control -- too much money is available. Anyone can get a student loan, in amounts up to $200k (for professional school). Colleges know this, and everyone thinks they should be going to the "best" college they can get into (with "best" = private in many cases). With most professor salaries still under $100k a year, you have to wonder where the student tuition money is going.

As for Roe v. Wade, I'd like a similar ruling for men who don't want to have kids, and don't want to be forced into supporting one that they didn't want (this is a whole 'nother post in and of itself, but you have to admit that the abortion/child support playing field isn't exactly even).
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Old 10-19-2007, 01:20 PM   #66
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Well, with the college costs... there are a lot of the high priced ones that could stop charging tuition and it would not matter. They have billions in endowments that could pay for all students tuition... and they want MORE money...

I have wondered where all that increase is going... but I think a lot of colleges use it for sports and research. They want to have people discover things.
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Old 10-19-2007, 01:42 PM   #67
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Unless we can reproduce the free college the WWII generation had,
"Free"?!? I'd say they paid pretty dearly for their GI Bill benefits...
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Old 10-19-2007, 11:49 PM   #68
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"Free"?!? I'd say they paid pretty dearly for their GI Bill benefits...
I didn't hear about anyone getting a free education because of when they were born. My mom finished high school in 1944 and if she wanted more education her parents had saved to send her to secretarial school.
GI bill is only for service members my brothers got it and my boyfriend but they fought in Viet Nam not WWII.
The problem with the cost is entirely student loans if they didn't have them only kids with scholarships or who had parents that saved to send them could go unless they worked full time while going.
I worked my way through college with no help and no loans but it wasn't that bad because it was before everyone tried to send every kid.
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Old 10-20-2007, 10:12 AM   #69
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I didn't hear about anyone getting a free education because of when they were born. My mom finished high school in 1944 and if she wanted more education her parents had saved to send her to secretarial school.
GI bill is only for service members my brothers got it and my boyfriend but they fought in Viet Nam not WWII.
The problem with the cost is entirely student loans if they didn't have them only kids with scholarships or who had parents that saved to send them could go unless they worked full time while going.
I worked my way through college with no help and no loans but it wasn't that bad because it was before everyone tried to send every kid.
I worked my way through college too. It took longer but it still can be done. What I see today is a spoiled younger generation that is more concerned about tattoos, i-pods, video games and cell phones than earning some money. They do not have much of a work ethic because their parents do everything for them. Our generation is better off than the last one and the result is making sure the kids have everything possible. The shock will come when they finally leave the nest and do not have the tools to make it on their own. One reason why so many kids are moving back in with Mom and Pop.
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Old 10-20-2007, 10:17 AM   #70
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They do not have much of a work ethic because their parents do everything for them. Our generation is better off than the last one and the result is making sure the kids have everything possible. The shock will come when they finally leave the nest and do not have the tools to make it on their own. One reason why so many kids are moving back in with Mom and Pop.
Sounds like a self-fulfilling parenting problem to me. Once Mom & Pop get it right the "kids" will probably move on...
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Old 10-20-2007, 11:50 AM   #71
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Sounds like we are quoting Socrates on this board now.

Wasn't "Rebel without a cause" filmed in the early 60's? Young people have always been the same.
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Old 10-20-2007, 12:07 PM   #72
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Sounds like we are quoting Socrates on this board now.

Wasn't "Rebel without a cause" filmed in the early 60's? Young people have always been the same.
Actually - 1955
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Old 10-20-2007, 12:07 PM   #73
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Yabbut newer parents seem to have both the will and the way to keep their kids dependent.
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Old 10-20-2007, 12:34 PM   #74
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Nords said ""Free"?!? I'd say they paid pretty dearly for their GI Bill benefits..."

Agreed, I put it too simply. But my orphaned father, penniless, raised in a Catholic orphanage, after coming back from WWII, had his full tuition paid and was given a stipend so he didn't have to work his way through school. If he hadn't been given that, he'd probably have been a hired farm hand all his life (what he did summers as a boy). As it is he had a very successful career as a civil engineer.

Ask today's vets if they get it that good - my cousin didn't after serving in Kosovo. Did Vietnam vets get full expenses plus stipend? I don't know.

The WWII generation was an aberration, I admit, but I believe that education available to a wide swath of the population, including the poor, had a lot to do with the unparalleled prosperity of the U.S. in the late 20th century. It wasn't just because the rest of the industrialized nations were bombed out. Our population was better educated.
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Old 10-20-2007, 01:06 PM   #75
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My boyfriend served to tours in Nam around 1964 and when he decided to go to community college in 1989 he got the same tuition he would have paid in 1964 they just froze it, he didn't get any extra benefit.
My little brother joined the Navy in 1968 and served 9 years he was paid to go to college. He only went to get the money to help his wife go to college he didn't even want an education, he is now a retired pipe fitter and his wife has a masters and will be retiring in a couple of years.
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Old 10-20-2007, 01:42 PM   #76
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Nords said ""Free"?!?
Did Vietnam vets get full expenses plus stipend? I don't know.
No they didn't. Facing the draft when I turned 18, I joined the Air Force, but my enlistment was delayed 8 months due to the training backlog caused by Nam.

When I got out in '71, college was out of the question. Unlike WWII, coverage for tuition was limited (no high-priced universities/colleges tuitions coverered) nor was there any "extra help" for living expenses. When I went in, it was "only me". When I was discharged, I had a wife/baby to support. Being that my son is was/is disabled, my wife stayed home to care for him for the first 5+ years, so what would be considered "normal additional income" (e.g. two working people in the family) was not an option in our case (but I'm sure it was in others).

BTW, the first local "community college" did not come about in our area till after I enlisted. "Higher education" meant that you had (or your folks) had money. Credit was not available as readily as today if you wanted to persue an education.

However, things still worked out in the end - that's all that counts anyway, isn't it? I (nor my wife) may have a degree (only 3 of 4 of our joint parents finished high school), but my son (even being a high-level autistic) received his BS in computer science. That was part of the "American dream" - to have your kids get a bit further (in any desire) than you did...

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Old 10-20-2007, 02:42 PM   #77
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The problem with the cost is entirely student loans if they didn't have them only kids with scholarships or who had parents that saved to send them could go unless they worked full time while going.
I worked my way through college with no help and no loans but it wasn't that bad because it was before everyone tried to send every kid.
Today the yearly cost of tuition and fees for most state universities is about $9-10K. That's a lot of money if a kid is putting herself through college. Students usually have to take out loans. Those loans are very often private loans and what is happening now is that graduates have to pay back the loan immediately and they can't find a good enough job. If they miss payments, the interest rate gets jacked up. It's such a trap.

I put myself through college and grad school, as a single mom. The junior college I went to cost nothing for tuition. It was FREE for everyone! Then University of California gave me a scholarship but tuition only cost about $400 a quarter back in 1974.

Also, because I was a single mom, day care was subsidized. Also, I received food stamps, courtesy of the state of California. Thanks, guys! It really helped keep my kid and I in groceries.

Books for college students are outrageously expensive now too. And the publishers keep coming out with the "latest" edition so students can't buy used books. It's really a racket.

So in that one respect, higher ed, things were SO MUCH better for me in the 1970s than for students now.
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Old 10-20-2007, 09:01 PM   #78
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An relevant exerpt from an article regarding the current high cost of childrearing [The war on the family | Home | Canadian Business Online]:

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You can't blame young couples for their decision to have fewer children than their own parents. Over the past three decades, total family incomes in real terms that is, adjusted for inflation have actually gone down. Statistics Canada says the median family income in 1980 was $58,000. Twenty-seven years later, it's $57,700. (Both figures are expressed in 2005 dollars to remove the effects of inflation.) But stagnant incomes are not the worst problem. A generation ago, it took just one working parent to generate that median household income. These days it takes two.
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