Like watching a car drive off a cliff...

[GrayHare]

If you can get all of the family who is contributing to agree to do something like this>
Draw up a contract

+1

BIL's lack of savings is water under the bridge. Figure out what can be done now to protect the family.

 

[JoeWras]

Sorry to hear about your BIL. I've spoken here about one of my BILs. We thought he didn't even qualify for SS (too many cash jobs). Turns out he does, barely, and he took it at 62. Working cash jobs on the side still. Our sisters and BILs can sometimes confound us!

As for the accident, this is the primary reason we have LTC coverage. Not for when we are old and nearly dead, but for now. We'll drop it when we get reasonable old. Beyond that, my brain will probably be so out of it I won't care if the state "takes care" of me.

 

[ivinsfan]

I forgot to ask what, is the attitude from the receiving family about this money. Obviously it's a handout and not just a loan. Are they grateful, acting entitled, or embarrassed about the situation? Are they willing to show you a monthly budget to live on. If I were in your shoes, I say it was for 12 months instead of 12-18 at some point they have to take control over their own lives.

 

[DawgMan]

I think in theory drafting a contract or putting certain conditions in place for financial assistance from the family is ideal, but not sure it is practical while we are dealing with the unknown (i.e. it will take 12 + months to know the extent of any permanent paralysis). While our plan is to "control" the $$ by paying many of the fixed expenses directly, during the period of stabilizing my BIL and giving both my BIL/SIL and their family a break to hopefully face their new reality, the plan is to turn the faucet of at a set time and hand them back the keys. It's hard to play the tough love card in the middle of a life changing accident that was out of his control when we have the ability to help. The hope is they see the light somewhere during this time and change their ways, although my experience is I am not holding out much hope. The tough love comes once BIL is stabilized. As said before, this train was coming off the tracks one way or another, but my BIL accident just accelerated it. There is a lesson in all of this I will hammer home with others (I.e. immediate family and friends), you just hope some good can come from it.

 

[skipro33]

I'll go back to read all the replies, but to blindly just answer the OP's post;
First, there is no way I would accept financial aid from family or friends no matter what. NO WAY.

Second, the ONLY way I'd offer up free money to any family is under conditions; first that all their finances are divulged completely. I want the assurance that the money I am donating is going to go for essentials. What someone else considers essential and what I consider essential are mucho differnto. For example. The home should have ONE cell phone with a minimum account. Not generous plans for everyone. Internet, cable/sat tv, etc all need to be minimized to fit within my donation budget. Groceries, dining, # of cars all are going to be managed to my satisfaction before I donate a dime.

I've seen over and over within my own family (brother and his kids and grandkids) how the current generation is one of entitlement and how my generation fostered this mindset.

The bottom line is that I worked hard and sacrificed. Sorry the relative is in hard times, but with boats in the garage, new cars in the driveway, no clothing more than 12 months old, every computer game, electronic device, etc (I'm speculating on this of course) there is no way I'm going to help fund it. The fact that they come across that 'everything is gonna be alright' is a big red button begging to be pushed, and I'm the type of guy that pushes it. Instead of cash, I'll bring over groceries, I'll pay the bills, but I'm not handing over money to anyone who's demonstrated such a poor regard for their own. What would make me think they'd treat the money earned from my sweat any more responsibly than their own earnings?

 

[Texas Proud]

Finally read a response that was in line with mine.... by Skipro33....

First, I am sorry to hear about BIL... it is a tragedy... but, it also shows why STD and LTD are important insurance to get....


But, there is NO way that I would be funding a lifestyle that I would not fund with my own family.... IOW, there is no way I would pay for out of state tuition or private school for my kids.... so there is no way I would pay to have somebody's family spending that on their family...

So, way to put it out there Skipro33.....

 

[simple girl]

Dealing with this issue myself right now. Sibling has been counting on getting SSDI and of course got turned down. Now prob another 1.5 years until hearing, and no guarantee he will get it even then.

He owns his house but has not paid his taxes, and it is about to go to sheriff's sale. Remainder of siblings trying to decide what to do. Hate to see him lose his only remaining asset (and become homeless!), but hate to enable further, either (we've already given him money last year). Oh and his vehicle broke down and isn't fixable. Has a dirt bike as his only means of transportation.

He suffers from depression and anxiety (along with a host of other medical issues). I love him dearly and this is killing me. Afraid to say/do something that might put him over the edge. Horrible position to be put in.

 

[JoeWras]

First, I am sorry to hear about BIL... it is a tragedy... but, it also shows why STD and LTD are important insurance to get....

Yes, important when working to replace expected wage.

But don't forget the extra care needed for someone who is this impaired is not covered. ST/LTD only cover wage loss.

 

[redduck]

...First, there is no way I would accept financial aid from family or friends no matter what. NO WAY.

You seem to feel strongly about not accepting financial aid from friends or family no matter what. How come?

 

[Souschef]

niece's stock

My mom required 24 hr care at home, and it was paid for out of her funds. When they were running out, I knew she had some stock the was promised to my 2 nieces.
Both of them are well off, and I told my sister I was not going to subsidize them by paying for mom;s care. I said after all the stock is sold, I will help pay for her care, which I did.

 

[FUEGO]

I see this often enough with friends and family. Even a small accident or job loss could break them. My SIL's husband sustained a minor workplace injury and couldn't work (or perhaps "couldn't work") for a couple months and they were basically destitute. She cashed out her 401k (36 years old and has $450 in her 401k now) to bridge the gap. At least she didn't lose the house. Her husband is back at work now but they just asked her mom to borrow $800 to pay for an "unexpected" repair to their SUV. I imagine they are one of those households that routinely have less than one paycheck in the bank (even though I think they earn ~$70k combined HH income).

 

[Nemo2]

Some of the allusions on this thread remind me of what I told my late wife when a friend of hers said "It's only money"........."The only people, (other than Saudi princes, etc), who say "it's only money" are the people who don't have any"

 

[razztazz]

."The only people, (other than Saudi princes, etc), who say "it's only money" are the people who don't have any"

Can I start using this one whenever I lecture people?

 

[skipro33]

You seem to feel strongly about not accepting financial aid from friends or family no matter what. How come?

Because I should be prepared enough to not need the financial aid. It's been tested; we lost everything we owned other than the clothes on our backs and one of our dogs to a wild land fire. Not even my wallet. My wife did grab her purse as we ran from the house, so we had an insurance card to call our insurance company. An agent met me within 45 minutes and gave me a check for $20,000, a debit card for $400 and checked us into a hotel. We were covered for everything from the minute we suffered to loss, until, about 2 years later, I was sitting in front of my TV with a cold beer from my fridge.
There was zero need for asking anyone for financial aide. A lot of folks offered. A lot of folks offered a lot of stuff and we were grateful. People came to us with food, but I had no way of keeping it or even a plate and fork to serve and eat it with. Ha!! Some people offered us furniture but we had no place to put a couch or bed for that matter for the next year or so. Besides, the insurance company paid for all new replacements, so I really didn't need the stuff I had no place to store anyways.

But, one thing I can say, is that anyone going though something like this; a material or a medical loss or crisis is that, no matter how little you might be able to practically use what ever someone offers up, you have a deep obligation to humbly accept it ease THEIR pain for having someone they care about suffering a loss. The pain in people's eyes as they greeted me afterwards was lifted when they offered and I said thank you with sincerity. Even though I knew I was covered, I needed to recognize their hearts were hurting for us and that I needed to help them feel that our burden was lightened because of their support.

Are the people you help through a crisis thoughtful enough to not only acknowledge the financial need you've supplied but also the emotional toll it takes on them that a loved one is suffering somehow enough that a financial gift might help?

This is one crisis I have gone though. There are others. Loss of job while raising 2 boys ages 3 and 5 where I lost our medical insurance, our home foreclosed and worse. But we made it and by GOD it made me understand the value of money and how to make IT work for ME instead of the other way around. That was a time when there was no family financially able to offer any support other than a meal once in a while.

We make our own 'luck' in this world. I don't believe for a minute that a financially irresponsible adult is a victim. I do believe that they prey on those who are responsible. To me, if someone is capable of making enough to need $100,000 for a year's support when a crisis happens and they get back on their feet, then they are not stupid, they are unethical.

 

[DawgMan]

Skipro33 - I like your attitude! As right as I think you may be, you are the exception, not the rule. Its easy to forget we live in richest country on the planet and while not easy, it still is the land of opportunity for those who approach their life with some planning and are intentional. I have very little patience for the victim mentality, but I also have a compassionate side particularly when minor children are involved as is the case with my BIL. I think there is a fine line between helping someone, financially or otherwise, and enabling them. As a Family (7 siblings on DW side), we are still going thru the final math and "rules" of our aid. While you had the resolve to pull yourself up (and I am confident you are better/stronger because of it), I have come to learn not everyone has those same strengths and some need some help to get back on their way. If I am fortunate enough to be able to help in some way, then I feel part of my calling in this world is to give back (not an obligation). My challenge like others I suppose is knowing the difference between helping and enabling.

 

[skipro33]

And YOU are a good man, DawgMan. Kind hearted. Generous. Grateful for your own bounty and compassionate to the less fortunate.

I have a strong faith that, if you are ever taken advantage of for those qualities, that the person who does will have a higher power to answer to for it one day.

Listen to your heart, and never be afraid to speak up for what you feel is right. It's not easy to speak hard truths to family, but if it's what they need, then be strong for them and speak your concerns. Make clear the demarcation of your gifting and generosity and that you and yours are experiencing heartache if you don't think they are getting that message and acknowledging your pain.

 

[redduck]

You seem to feel strongly about not accepting financial aid from friends or family no matter what. How come?

Because I should be prepared enough to not need the financial aid. It's been tested;...We make our own 'luck' in this world. I don't believe for a minute that a financially irresponsible adult is a victim. I do believe that they prey on those who are responsible. To me, if someone is capable of making enough to need $100,000 for a year's support when a crisis happens and they get back on their feet, then they are not stupid, they are unethical.

skipro33, thank you for your thoughtful reply.

But, as to making our own "luck," I've never been sold on that. I've met lots of people who are "financially irresponsible." They either don't/won't or can't get it. I'm not sure it's a skill that everyone possesses--or that everyone can develop. I think it might be how some people are wired.

 

[Teacher Terry]

I would not be willing to give that much $ to someone unless they were willing to make sacrifices, recognize how they got into this situation and certainly not help them pretend they have enough $ to continue to live as they were. If he does not get better and has to go on SSDI which can take years to get you might have as well just lit a match to that $ you originally gave them. It will just allow them to postpone the inevitable. I would help them come up with a plan such as would selling their home be better to get the equity and is renting cheaper, etc? They are really in denial since they are not open to changing the kids schools, etc. Maximum medical improvement for most injuries occurs within the first 6 months with a smaller improvement from 6-12 months. Usually by the end of 12 months the gains are done. I would also help them to find what programs they may be eligible for and what items do they have of value that they could sell. Boats, RV's, jewelry, etc. Yes this will be painful for them but it should be.

 

[mickeyd]

Many folks that have posted here for a long time have abided by LBYM, often not knowing that was what they were doing. It just felt like the correct/sane thing to do. Lack of upscale residence, lack of new/top shelf auto, kids educated at community college/state U, thrifty vacations...I could go on and on.


Others have chosen to purchase that large house on the hill, bought those two Lexus autos that are parked out back, sent John and Mary to the "best" private schools in the land, taken numerous winter ski vacations and European summer trips.


We all make financial decisions based on what we think is best for our gang. In the long run, we all think we made the right decision.

 

[Teacher Terry]

People that make the big lifestyle choices should not expect family to bail them out when they suddenly can't afford their lifestyle.

 

[Texas Proud]

Just another POV....

How much do you think they would help YOU if you were in their situation


IOW, if they are stretched to the limit before the accident... what kind of assistance could they give... probably none... and I doubt they would change their lifestyle so they could help...


Yes, I know it is family, and that can be a big issue... but I think about my family and ask who would help me... of my 5 siblings I think maybe 2 would... another might do things for me, but not help financially....

For me I have only 1 that would need any kind of help... all the others would not need help...

 

[Nemo2]

Can I start using this one whenever I lecture people?

Be my guest.

(The friend in question, eased out through downsizing, immediately took a cruise, and stated she'd figure out how to pay for it later.....after all "It's only money".)

 

[tmm99]

My heart goes out to the family going through such a difficult and shocking event. That in itself is devastating to deal with. It looks like that it's double tragic this has happened to a family who is most unprepared financially.

Having said that, I will have to agree with Teacher Terry. The best thing for them to do is to face the new reality. You could help them put together a new game plan, using the resources they have themselves and utilizing whatever programs they are eligible for. I could see myself giving them grocery store gift cards and pack them home made frozen meals so they don't have to cook as much, but I am not sure if I would go any further than that, if they are still thinking of keeping the kids in private schools and such.

 

[Teacher Terry]

If the husband can't be left alone maybe various family members can help with staying with him so the wife can find a f.t. job. There are millions of ways to help as suggested above with meals, errands, etc. For years I worked with people with disabilities to help them get back to work. The sad thing is that many had exhausted all their retirement $ etc before coming to us for help or hearing about us. There are also lots of programs to help people but it can take time to research and navigate the bureaucracies so that is some of the other ways they can be helped. There are tons of ways to help without having to give $. Giving $ can build resentment on how it is spent, etc. Obtaining a sudden disability is really a difficult time for families due to role changes in the family, depression, financial probs, etc.

 

[Miranda]

My heart also goes out to the man who experienced the accident and his immediate family grappling with with this dramatic change in their lives.

I can understand the extended family wanting to "be there" for this family. My own family has a strong "charity starts at home" ethic that unfortunately isn't accompanied by an "ant and grasshopper" ethic. I am afraid this will lead to entitlement/enabling or an unpopular tough love call in at least one case.

However my gut reaction to imagining myself in the shoes of the OP is that this event could be a stone that has the potential to drag everyone down financially and affect long term financial goals. I know that is a very selfish view. I don't feel like I would let a family members misfortune derail my long term financial goals. I would figure out what I was comfortable giving vs what the family members needs are.

And as others have mentioned, I would like to think we would not seek or expect family members to assist us. For our whole adult lives dh and I have kept expenses in check, not lived lavishly and saved regularly. We liked to think we were positioned well to weather and recover from any storm at all points of our journey. Knock wood that has so far not been tested.

fwiw...