Like watching a car drive off a cliff...

[Walt34]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mulligan Hopefully they are like me, Walt. I have a mortgage, credit card debt, a vehicle payment (on another CC) and retired. But I could pay it off tomorrow if I chose to, though. Well, make it a week, as I have screwed up my finances buying too much stock and don't even have $500 to my name now...Better give me a week!

Lots of members here have mortgages, cc debt and car loans but like you they also have the resources to pay them off. Nothing wrong with that of course.

But the in-laws do not have the resources to pay them off and instead rely on anticipated future income. That can create a problem.

[LARS]

It is very true that all of us are "but for the Grace of God" away from a disaster. However, how prepared we are for that disaster has little to do with God and much to do with our own preparations. There are exceptions to this, but what the OP describes doesn't seem to be one of them.

Thus, to my mind, much of the burden falls to BIL/SIL. Somewhere in all this is Lincoln's words of wisdom to his step-brother...

Finally, to my mind, these kind of financial situations take on a new meaning if you've retired and no longer have a paycheck to replenish spent funds.

YMMV...



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[LARS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by folivier If you can get all of the family who is contributing to agree to do something like this> Draw up a contract that states in order to receive any assistance he has to do the following: 1) get older kids home now, take a semester off and get a job and/or go to local school and live at home, 2) remove kids from private school and put in public. Etc..... Not really any different than the requirements banks put on someone with bad debt to get a loan.

Sorry but this just allows the parents to shift blame from themselves to family members vis a vis their children. "We don't want to upset your life, but your nasty Aunts/Uncles are making us..."


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[Mulligan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walt34 Lots of members here have mortgages, cc debt and car loans but like you they also have the resources to pay them off. Nothing wrong with that of course. But the in-laws do not have the resources to pay them off and instead rely on anticipated future income. That can create a problem.

I always find it fascinating to see what is being rationalized in peoples heads who do that... I can relate in a way. I was that way more or less until about a dozen years ago or so. I just mostly focused on not being in debt, but accumulating any wealth was never important to me as I knew a pension was down the road. But it is a amazing how just a few tweaks and an attitude transformation can quickly bring about growing wealth. Although I will never be a 1%er, assuming I dont outlive Methuselah, but now I am accumulating more wealth than ever and doing less than ever to acquire it.


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[redduck]

Quote:

Originally Posted by LOL! ...My post could be responded to with "It not about the nail." Can you tell my sex? BTW, my wife's father died while she was a freshman in college. Things did change.

OK, I want to take a shot at guessing your sex, but I need more information. Can you give just one or two more clues?

note: words in bold by redduck

[GrayHare]

Quote:

Originally Posted by folivier If you can get all of the family who is contributing to agree to do something like this> Draw up a contract

+1

BIL's lack of savings is water under the bridge. Figure out what can be done now to protect the family.

[JoeWras]

Sorry to hear about your BIL. I've spoken here about one of my BILs. We thought he didn't even qualify for SS (too many cash jobs). Turns out he does, barely, and he took it at 62. Working cash jobs on the side still. Our sisters and BILs can sometimes confound us!

As for the accident, this is the primary reason we have LTC coverage. Not for when we are old and nearly dead, but for now. We'll drop it when we get reasonable old. Beyond that, my brain will probably be so out of it I won't care if the state "takes care" of me.

[ivinsfan]

I forgot to ask what, is the attitude from the receiving family about this money. Obviously it's a handout and not just a loan. Are they grateful, acting entitled, or embarrassed about the situation? Are they willing to show you a monthly budget to live on. If I were in your shoes, I say it was for 12 months instead of 12-18 at some point they have to take control over their own lives.

[DawgMan]

I think in theory drafting a contract or putting certain conditions in place for financial assistance from the family is ideal, but not sure it is practical while we are dealing with the unknown (i.e. it will take 12 + months to know the extent of any permanent paralysis). While our plan is to "control" the $$ by paying many of the fixed expenses directly, during the period of stabilizing my BIL and giving both my BIL/SIL and their family a break to hopefully face their new reality, the plan is to turn the faucet of at a set time and hand them back the keys. It's hard to play the tough love card in the middle of a life changing accident that was out of his control when we have the ability to help. The hope is they see the light somewhere during this time and change their ways, although my experience is I am not holding out much hope. The tough love comes once BIL is stabilized. As said before, this train was coming off the tracks one way or another, but my BIL accident just accelerated it. There is a lesson in all of this I will hammer home with others (I.e. immediate family and friends), you just hope some good can come from it.

[skipro33]

I'll go back to read all the replies, but to blindly just answer the OP's post;
First, there is no way I would accept financial aid from family or friends no matter what. NO WAY.

Second, the ONLY way I'd offer up free money to any family is under conditions; first that all their finances are divulged completely. I want the assurance that the money I am donating is going to go for essentials. What someone else considers essential and what I consider essential are mucho differnto. For example. The home should have ONE cell phone with a minimum account. Not generous plans for everyone. Internet, cable/sat tv, etc all need to be minimized to fit within my donation budget. Groceries, dining, # of cars all are going to be managed to my satisfaction before I donate a dime.

I've seen over and over within my own family (brother and his kids and grandkids) how the current generation is one of entitlement and how my generation fostered this mindset.

The bottom line is that I worked hard and sacrificed. Sorry the relative is in hard times, but with boats in the garage, new cars in the driveway, no clothing more than 12 months old, every computer game, electronic device, etc (I'm speculating on this of course) there is no way I'm going to help fund it. The fact that they come across that 'everything is gonna be alright' is a big red button begging to be pushed, and I'm the type of guy that pushes it. Instead of cash, I'll bring over groceries, I'll pay the bills, but I'm not handing over money to anyone who's demonstrated such a poor regard for their own. What would make me think they'd treat the money earned from my sweat any more responsibly than their own earnings?

[Texas Proud]

Finally read a response that was in line with mine.... by Skipro33....

First, I am sorry to hear about BIL... it is a tragedy... but, it also shows why STD and LTD are important insurance to get....


But, there is NO way that I would be funding a lifestyle that I would not fund with my own family.... IOW, there is no way I would pay for out of state tuition or private school for my kids.... so there is no way I would pay to have somebody's family spending that on their family...

So, way to put it out there Skipro33.....

[simple girl]

Dealing with this issue myself right now. Sibling has been counting on getting SSDI and of course got turned down. Now prob another 1.5 years until hearing, and no guarantee he will get it even then.

He owns his house but has not paid his taxes, and it is about to go to sheriff's sale. Remainder of siblings trying to decide what to do. Hate to see him lose his only remaining asset (and become homeless!), but hate to enable further, either (we've already given him money last year). Oh and his vehicle broke down and isn't fixable. Has a dirt bike as his only means of transportation.

He suffers from depression and anxiety (along with a host of other medical issues). I love him dearly and this is killing me. Afraid to say/do something that might put him over the edge. Horrible position to be put in.

[JoeWras]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texas Proud First, I am sorry to hear about BIL... it is a tragedy... but, it also shows why STD and LTD are important insurance to get....

Yes, important when working to replace expected wage.

But don't forget the extra care needed for someone who is this impaired is not covered. ST/LTD only cover wage loss.

[redduck]

Quote:

Originally Posted by skipro33 ...First, there is no way I would accept financial aid from family or friends no matter what. NO WAY.

You seem to feel strongly about not accepting financial aid from friends or family no matter what. How come?

[Souschef]

My mom required 24 hr care at home, and it was paid for out of her funds. When they were running out, I knew she had some stock the was promised to my 2 nieces.
Both of them are well off, and I told my sister I was not going to subsidize them by paying for mom;s care. I said after all the stock is sold, I will help pay for her care, which I did.

[FUEGO]

I see this often enough with friends and family. Even a small accident or job loss could break them. My SIL's husband sustained a minor workplace injury and couldn't work (or perhaps "couldn't work") for a couple months and they were basically destitute. She cashed out her 401k (36 years old and has $450 in her 401k now) to bridge the gap. At least she didn't lose the house. Her husband is back at work now but they just asked her mom to borrow $800 to pay for an "unexpected" repair to their SUV. I imagine they are one of those households that routinely have less than one paycheck in the bank (even though I think they earn ~$70k combined HH income).

[Nemo2]

Some of the allusions on this thread remind me of what I told my late wife when a friend of hers said "It's only money"........."The only people, (other than Saudi princes, etc), who say "it's only money" are the people who don't have any"

[razztazz]

Quote:

."The only people, (other than Saudi princes, etc), who say "it's only money" are the people who don't have any"

Can I start using this one whenever I lecture people?

[skipro33]

Quote:

Originally Posted by redduck You seem to feel strongly about not accepting financial aid from friends or family no matter what. How come?

Because I should be prepared enough to not need the financial aid. It's been tested; we lost everything we owned other than the clothes on our backs and one of our dogs to a wild land fire. Not even my wallet. My wife did grab her purse as we ran from the house, so we had an insurance card to call our insurance company. An agent met me within 45 minutes and gave me a check for $20,000, a debit card for $400 and checked us into a hotel. We were covered for everything from the minute we suffered to loss, until, about 2 years later, I was sitting in front of my TV with a cold beer from my fridge.
There was zero need for asking anyone for financial aide. A lot of folks offered. A lot of folks offered a lot of stuff and we were grateful. People came to us with food, but I had no way of keeping it or even a plate and fork to serve and eat it with. Ha!! Some people offered us furniture but we had no place to put a couch or bed for that matter for the next year or so. Besides, the insurance company paid for all new replacements, so I really didn't need the stuff I had no place to store anyways.

But, one thing I can say, is that anyone going though something like this; a material or a medical loss or crisis is that, no matter how little you might be able to practically use what ever someone offers up, you have a deep obligation to humbly accept it ease THEIR pain for having someone they care about suffering a loss. The pain in people's eyes as they greeted me afterwards was lifted when they offered and I said thank you with sincerity. Even though I knew I was covered, I needed to recognize their hearts were hurting for us and that I needed to help them feel that our burden was lightened because of their support.

Are the people you help through a crisis thoughtful enough to not only acknowledge the financial need you've supplied but also the emotional toll it takes on them that a loved one is suffering somehow enough that a financial gift might help?

This is one crisis I have gone though. There are others. Loss of job while raising 2 boys ages 3 and 5 where I lost our medical insurance, our home foreclosed and worse. But we made it and by GOD it made me understand the value of money and how to make IT work for ME instead of the other way around. That was a time when there was no family financially able to offer any support other than a meal once in a while.

We make our own 'luck' in this world. I don't believe for a minute that a financially irresponsible adult is a victim. I do believe that they prey on those who are responsible. To me, if someone is capable of making enough to need $100,000 for a year's support when a crisis happens and they get back on their feet, then they are not stupid, they are unethical.

[DawgMan]

Skipro33 - I like your attitude! As right as I think you may be, you are the exception, not the rule. Its easy to forget we live in richest country on the planet and while not easy, it still is the land of opportunity for those who approach their life with some planning and are intentional. I have very little patience for the victim mentality, but I also have a compassionate side particularly when minor children are involved as is the case with my BIL. I think there is a fine line between helping someone, financially or otherwise, and enabling them. As a Family (7 siblings on DW side), we are still going thru the final math and "rules" of our aid. While you had the resolve to pull yourself up (and I am confident you are better/stronger because of it), I have come to learn not everyone has those same strengths and some need some help to get back on their way. If I am fortunate enough to be able to help in some way, then I feel part of my calling in this world is to give back (not an obligation). My challenge like others I suppose is knowing the difference between helping and enabling.