Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Like watching a car drive off a cliff...
Old 08-14-2016, 06:45 AM   #1
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 138
Like watching a car drive off a cliff...

This is more of a vent and frankly, not sure which forum this really belongs on.

Most everyone on this site obviously has similar interests/practices in planning their lives, controlling expenses, saving for RE, understanding investing, etc. What I have recently been reminded of is there is a whole other group of people out there who have made very poor irresponsible choices and will be at risk of living off SS only. Case in point, my 54 yr old BIL recently had an accident that for now has him wheel chair bound as a quadriplegic. There is a reasonable chance he will regain a fair amount of his mobility, but we will not know for 12 months. He & my SIL both have college degrees, however, he is the bread winner in a very narrow industry with limited income potential. SIL has always been under employed working part time in a sandwich shop. 4 kids between ages of 14 - 20, 2 in college. They have sacrificed everything to send their kids to private schools and college out of state. Fast forward today... this accident to my BIL has totally exposed their financial situation. They have some, but little NW in home, $15k in credit card debt, no savings/RE acct. Large family on my DW side and we will all be contributing $$ to bridge the next 12 -18 months until we know more. Both my BIL and SIL have their head in the sand and think everything will just work out. Even if he gets 100% back, they are driving off a financial cliff and refuse to see it regardless of any sound family advice. Frustrating, heart breaking none the less, but this is probably more typical than any of us want to believe.
__________________

__________________
DawgMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 08-14-2016, 07:03 AM   #2
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
frayne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: 19th Hole
Posts: 2,433
Sorry to hear about your BIL and his situation but I would think they are probably in the majority. I wonder what percentage of the US population would be considered financially responsible ? My guess, less than 25% and that is no doubt generous.
__________________

__________________
Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is an absurd one.
frayne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2016, 07:10 AM   #3
Recycles dryer sheets
Pilot2013's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Greenville
Posts: 313
Quote:
Originally Posted by DawgMan View Post
Both my BIL and SIL have their head in the sand and think everything will just work out.
I think this, unfortunately, is the majority of people. My Sis and I talk about this often. While I am not in perfect shape and could have done MUCH better (as evidenced by some on here), and a catastrophe would thwart ER, I think I would be able to make it without burdening others.

One of discussions with Sis is how those in situation like your BIL and his wife seem to live without a care in the world, while those of us that have the foresight and understanding of this need seem to have the more stressful lives...
__________________
Pilot2013 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2016, 07:15 AM   #4
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 138
What makes it worse is there are non adult kids (my nieces and nephews) involved that have been kept in the dark, been indulged most of their lives (never had a part time job) that are about to see their lives completely change (hopefully make them stronger in the long term). Also, while we as family provide a bridge for the next 12 - 18 months of up to $100K, its so clear how the movie ends here. We are providing a band aid to only see it get ripped off! The Family (at least we say this now) have said the financial aid will stop once recuperating period has ended. At that point, its their baby. We will see...
__________________
DawgMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2016, 07:18 AM   #5
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
mpeirce's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Columbus area
Posts: 1,443
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilot2013 View Post
One of discussions with Sis is how those in situation like your BIL and his wife seem to live without a care in the world, while those of us that have the foresight and understanding of this need seem to have the more stressful lives...
Do kids get taught Æsop's The Ant and the Grasshopper any more?
__________________
mpeirce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2016, 07:43 AM   #6
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Ready's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Southern California
Posts: 1,522
Really sorry to hear about your BIL. Just being wheelchair bound is incredibly challenging, regardless of the financial situation. I hope he fully recovers.
__________________
Ready is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2016, 07:57 AM   #7
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Car-Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Citizen of Texas
Posts: 2,126
Quote:
Originally Posted by DawgMan View Post
Also, while we as family provide a bridge for the next 12 - 18 months of up to $100K, its so clear how the movie ends here. We are providing a band aid to only see it get ripped off! The Family (at least we say this now) have said the financial aid will stop once recuperating period has ended. At that point, its their baby. We will see...
It's really nice to see your DW family step up but my guess is (only a guess since I don't know your family) if he doesn't recover as planned, the 100k and timeline will grow and grow. I've seen a number of similar scenarios and while they usually start off well, some family members don't always hold up their end of the bargain, for one reason or another, and the others end up doing or contributing more to help them keep up. But that will/can become another set of problems.

As a start, maybe the younger kids should start attending public schools and the out of state kids come back and attend a local collage or better yet, for the older ones "get jobs" to pay their own way.
__________________
Car-Guy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2016, 08:05 AM   #8
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
ivinsfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,664
Quote:
Originally Posted by DawgMan View Post
What makes it worse is there are non adult kids (my nieces and nephews) involved that have been kept in the dark, been indulged most of their lives (never had a part time job) that are about to see their lives completely change (hopefully make them stronger in the long term). Also, while we as family provide a bridge for the next 12 - 18 months of up to $100K, its so clear how the movie ends here. We are providing a band aid to only see it get ripped off! The Family (at least we say this now) have said the financial aid will stop once recuperating period has ended. At that point, its their baby. We will see...
Wow, that's a lot more then I would and just puts off the day of reckoning for all of them. They need 100K for basics? Now I'm not heartless and realize there was a health issue, but many bad not health related issues lead to this outcome. About how much of this amount will be your money and how do you know they won't continue with the crazy spending?
__________________
ivinsfan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2016, 08:18 AM   #9
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 8,163
When do short-term disability payments start?

For kids in college, they must have terrific financial aid if family had no savings. But they can drop out for a year to stay at home to take care of father. And they can work. There are lots and lots of "Help Wanted" signs in retail and food establishments.

For kids in private school, they can switch.

My post could be responded to with "It not about the nail." Can you tell my sex?
BTW, my wife's father died while she was a freshman in college. Things did change.
__________________
LOL! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2016, 08:31 AM   #10
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Alberta/Ontario/ Arizona
Posts: 2,579
Sorry to hear about your BIL and hope he recovers. Your DW's family are to be commended for stepping up.

Clearly the majority of people in our society don't do very well financially. Not much we can do about it other than realize how lucky (smart?) we are.
__________________
Danmar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2016, 08:53 AM   #11
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 4,839
So sad on many levels. There's many in the same financial position.

A buddy of mine credits me with showing how he could get at his retirement funds. Well I did tell him about QDROs but not to get divorced to do so. Their still a happy couple, with zero retirement. Guy's close to 60, couple of kids in junior high school. Guys skills are very limited to the obsolete technology he supports.
__________________
MRG is online now   Reply With Quote
I'm afraid they are the majority....
Old 08-14-2016, 08:53 AM   #12
Recycles dryer sheets
Johnora's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Idaho
Posts: 59
I'm afraid they are the majority....

First off, great job helping out your family as that is what family is supposed to do.

We have my DW parents living with us for last 14 years and will be until the end because no thoughts what so ever on how they were going to live in retirement. He even retired because he thought he should and then couldn't pay his mortgage. No thought towards money at all.

Because we are the planners, and I have laid out a long financial plan to prepare for retirement, my DW and I know that if and when anything else happens to someone else in the family who also is living life without a plan or a care, they will simply come knocking at our door.

However we might not be home....

People need to wake up, pay attention unless they wish to work much longer than they should.

My thoughts go out to your family for all they have done and I hope your BIL recovers 100% and is able to get back on track. As long as he is in a wheelchair he is a captive audience to talk to.
__________________
FIRE'd 3/1/2017 age 52 - Pension w/ COLA - all other retirement accounts A/A 86/14 - previous net income (cash flow) each month funded at 101% - SWD currently 1.1%
Johnora is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2016, 09:03 AM   #13
Administrator
W2R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 37,096
Life is tough sometimes. I don't have the statistics at hand, but my guess is that the vast majority of retirees live off social security alone so it can be done.

In his case it sounds like he would qualify for SS disability if he doesn't recover much. He may not be able to continue his prior lifestyle, though, and that plus the care he might need as a quadriplegic will be a big adjustment for him and his family.
__________________
Fairy tales are more than true: not because they tell us that dragons exist, but because they tell us that dragons can be beaten.

― N. Gaiman (2002)








W2R is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2016, 09:12 AM   #14
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 138
In regards to some of the comments, yes, we have said 1) get older kids home now, take a semester off and get a job and/or go to local school and live at home, 2) remove kids from private school and put in public. BIL/SIL think a combination of college loans & pushing out $$ due for these will solve the issue until BIL is back "on his feet"... they are fooling themselves. Unfortunately, BIL started a new job in Jan and does not have disability leaving only SS to fill in the gaps. As mentioned earlier, this has been a lifetime of habits and the snow ball has been rolling down the hill just waiting for 1 event to implode it. Completely understanding the "needs" for the next 12 - 18 months is still a work in progress, but with no income, no disability, funding 100% of the medical premium and max out of pocket expenses, we anticipate a number larger than any of us would like. And yes, I see potential family conflict in all of this with who really gives and what... lots of potential for more family problems. For many reasons, it amazes me how people let this happen to themselves and their family, but clearly more of an epidemic than any off us would hope. I suppose its a combination of ignorance is bliss, entitlement, lack of responsibility/maturity, keeping up with the Jones, betting on the come, and pure illusion that let these people sleep at night. The sad part is we are all affected, particularly when its family, especially when minors are involved. Tough love is on the horizon as there is a fine line between providing real needed assistance and enabling...
__________________
DawgMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2016, 09:30 AM   #15
Moderator
Walt34's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Eastern WV Panhandle
Posts: 15,442
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpeirce View Post
Do kids get taught Æsop's The Ant and the Grasshopper any more?
Apparently not. It was read to me many times and the message sunk in.

But as DawgMan notes this seems to be pretty much the norm. A BIL retired at 62 after his 2nd heart surgery and the doc told him "You're retired. Now." It did stress them some and the pension is not what they had planned on but at least they do have that. Had it happened before he was eligible for any pension at all he would have been on SSDI only, but at least his wife worked as a nurse and had a six-figure income.

They're both retired now and have a mortgage, two vehicle payments, and cc debt. We have none of those, so we find it hard to understand why people do that to themselves.
__________________
I heard the call to do nothing. So I answered it.
Walt34 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2016, 09:44 AM   #16
gone traveling
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 7
Interesting thread, I think we all have that relative (s) headed toward that cliff, I did not budget in my ER plan for bailouts so these actions give me heartburn,,,,


Sent from my iPad using Early Retirement Forum
__________________
Doughpile is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2016, 09:48 AM   #17
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 354
If you can get all of the family who is contributing to agree to do something like this>
Draw up a contract that states in order to receive any assistance he has to do the following: 1) get older kids home now, take a semester off and get a job and/or go to local school and live at home, 2) remove kids from private school and put in public. Etc.....
Not really any different than the requirements banks put on someone with bad debt to get a loan.
__________________
You do not have a soul. You are a soul. You have a body.
folivier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2016, 09:51 AM   #18
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
mpeirce's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Columbus area
Posts: 1,443
Quote:
Originally Posted by Walt34 View Post
...so we find it hard to understand why people do that to themselves.
My theory is that most people just do what other people do - i.e. follow the cultural norms.

That worked fine when almost everyone was a farmer/peasant and you saw how old folks were taken care of (they basically lived with younger folks until they died) and followed that pattern. It made sense to have lots of kids so there'd be at least one around to feed you when you got old.

Since the industrial revolution (not long ago really in generational terms) things changed. People didn't live in extended families as much, so it didn't work as well to just have granny and gramps live with the younger generation.

Culturally, we invented pensions. That sorta worked, for some, for awhile. And wasn't really economically sustainable. Certainly not when companies only last a few years and people change jobs a lot.

Social security helps. But it's basically a safety net, not a plan for living well after retiring. It keeps lots of folks from starving, but for some, that's about it.

Some portion of the population are naturally planners. People who think ahead and delay gratification for future benefit. Ants. Most of the folks here fit in that category.

For "ants" modern life offers many rewards. For "grasshoppers" not so much.

Of course you might argue that grasshoppers have more fun early in life, which ants give up. I don't see it that way myself.

So the real solution is how to establish new cultural norms so people do the right thing. Not sure how that's done, especially with such constant change going on in culture and work opportunities.
__________________
mpeirce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2016, 09:53 AM   #19
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Mulligan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 6,943
Quote:
Originally Posted by Walt34 View Post
Apparently not. It was read to me many times and the message sunk in.

But as DawgMan notes this seems to be pretty much the norm. A BIL retired at 62 after his 2nd heart surgery and the doc told him "You're retired. Now." It did stress them some and the pension is not what they had planned on but at least they do have that. Had it happened before he was eligible for any pension at all he would have been on SSDI only, but at least his wife worked as a nurse and had a six-figure income.

They're both retired now and have a mortgage, two vehicle payments, and cc debt. We have none of those, so we find it hard to understand why people do that to themselves.


Hopefully they are like me, Walt. I have a mortgage, credit card debt, a vehicle payment (on another CC) and retired. But I could pay it off tomorrow if I chose to, though. Well, make it a week, as I have screwed up my finances buying too much stock and don't even have $500 to my name now...Better give me a week!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
__________________
Mulligan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2016, 09:54 AM   #20
Full time employment: Posting here.
Souschef's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Santa Paula
Posts: 822
I have a cousin who fits the description. They have blown through over $1 M in inheritances! My BIL sat down with them to try to work out a budget, and it was obvious they will run out of money/ They live in some fantasy land that it will all come out right.
__________________

__________________
Retired Jan 2009 Have not looked back.
AA 95%/0/5
WR 2% SI 2SS & 2 Pensions
Souschef is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
3 Ways To Avoid Going Off A Stock Market Cliff With The Buy-And-Hold Herd BTravlin FIRE and Money 16 10-24-2014 09:31 PM
Will annuities be pushed off the fiscal cliff? obgyn65 FIRE and Money 6 12-19-2012 08:46 AM
Neighbor Falls off Small Cliff TromboneAl Health and Early Retirement 22 11-20-2011 04:39 PM
Push me off the cliff! Westernskies Hi, I am... 14 05-07-2008 10:55 AM
Like Lemmings over a cliff... Andy H Hi, I am... 96 09-27-2007 03:21 PM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:16 PM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.