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Re: Listened to a program today on Universal Healthcare..........
Old 08-11-2006, 10:03 AM   #81
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Re: Listened to a program today on Universal Healthcare..........

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Originally Posted by Nords

As for socialized medicine, I have a hard time agreeing that it's a good idea to turn over our healthcare to the government.* That's how the military got its healthcare system, and right now it's so cheap that it ain't necessarily attracting the best & brightest.
I believe that there was an article in Business Week in the last month or so about how the VA has done much to turn itself around.* Because they have customers for life, there is an emphasis on preventive care.* Their outcomes are also better than private medicine.* Sorry, I can't seem to find a link.*

But, from what I understand many of the improvements at the VA came from a good strong leader who has since been ousted by Congress (not confirmed for a new term) because he closed some clinics.*

So there is a political problem with a national system that we would need to work to get our arms around.* I still say we need to make a choice on a direction and do it.* Whether it be a nationalized sytem, a highly regulated insurance industry, or government subsidises.*
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Re: Listened to a program today on Universal Healthcare..........
Old 08-11-2006, 10:56 AM   #82
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Re: Listened to a program today on Universal Healthcare..........

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Originally Posted by razztazz
Class warfare. My folks had more money than your folks. Kiss my ass or you can die. Professional and Business ethics ya know. Hardly the basis for any system worth allowing to exist.

An administrative matter.

Once again., class warfare and btw ... I don't know any cabal of Rich people advocating for socialized medicine. Certainly not Republicans and they are mostly The Rich


YAAAAAAWn... yeah until somebody gets really sick and it starts to get expensive. Or Gawd forbid you actually could go broke.. they you will start with the "There oughtta be a law!" Black people have their programs... poor people live like kings off the Government ... We're the richest nation in the world ... we can put a man on the moon but we can't.....why should I have to pay for this!..... I'm usually Conservative on most issues but we really need to do something about medical care


About most MD's being ...well, I ;'ll say casual in tehe xtreme abotu their knowlge of medicine and give-a-sht factor.. yes I know that. Just shut the F up and take this drug! But I also, belive it or not, have a LOT of frikkin' difficulty actually PAYING for things with MONEY

I mean I need a test or diagnostic done and they're concerned ONLY with INSURANCE INSURANCE INSURANCE. And they willl gladly lie/wag/tweak the paperwork to get it on the insurance before they give me a price! And the times I have done this "al fresco" it was like pulling teeth to get the price THEN nobody wanted to give it to me in writting BEFORE the procedure. They'd schedule it chop chop the hustle me thru THEN I get a bill. If I waited for the bill they'd hold up the test

And as far as seeking your own specialist... tell me how you do that. Specialists do not see "Walk in" traffic . You have to be refrred by another doctor. The principle is "YOU can't know you need a cardiologist (or whatever) (I am not in an HMO or other network. I pay extra to keep my hands free)

There is something much more insidious going on behind the Green Door besides simply a mere insurance plan model or care access issue.


call it class warfare, but the reality is we will never have a socialized system where all doctors will be forced to participate. The richest senators are actually democrats and they will never pass a system that leaves them with bad medicine. the most affluent areas in the US vote democratic and people there will never agree to a socialized system that limits them. I live in NYC, and I know. We have some of the best doctors in the world here and if the government suddenly says people can't see them there will be a revolution.

depending on your health plan, you can go see specialists without a referral all you want. Only in HMO's do you need a permission slip from your doctor.

my wife used to work in one of the best hospitals in the US here where some of the richest people come for care from all over the US and most of them are openly democrat. We will never have a socialized system where all doctors must participate and will get paid very little like medicare.

at best we will have a system like the NY state health insurance where all the uninsured and self employed can enroll and the premiums are based on income with the rest of it subsidized by the state. It's an HMO, very limited and many of the top doctors don't take it. the goal is to reduce costs by reducing ER visits.
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Re: Listened to a program today on Universal Healthcare..........
Old 08-11-2006, 11:03 AM   #83
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Re: Listened to a program today on Universal Healthcare..........

Quote:
Originally Posted by Martha
I believe that there was an article in Business Week in the last month or so about how the VA has done much to turn itself around.* Because they have customers for life, there is an emphasis on preventive care.* Their outcomes are also better than private medicine.* Sorry, I can't seem to find a link.*
But, from what I understand many of the improvements at the VA came from a good strong leader who has since been ousted by Congress (not confirmed for a new term) because he closed some clinics.
Yep, I read it-- http://www.businessweek.com/print/ma...61.htm?chan=gl

Maybe the military should adopt the VA's model. Right now they're two completely separate-- and not necessarily cooperative-- institutions.
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Re: Listened to a program today on Universal Healthcare..........
Old 08-11-2006, 11:10 AM   #84
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Re: Listened to a program today on Universal Healthcare..........

The last time I went to the VA was 2002. I ran from there and will never return. It was the worst care I had ever received, but you couldn't beat the price.
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Re: Listened to a program today on Universal Healthcare..........
Old 08-11-2006, 12:04 PM   #85
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Re: Listened to a program today on Universal Healthcare..........

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The last time I went to the VA was 2002. I ran from there and will never return. It was the worst care I had ever received, but you couldn't beat the price.
I second that emotion... I went there once in 1996...and had one telephone conversation with them in 1997 or 98. Lost my records..... wasn't pretty. I'm offically disabled but I opt to just walk with a limp instead
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Re: Listened to a program today on Universal Healthcare..........
Old 08-11-2006, 01:13 PM   #86
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Re: Listened to a program today on Universal Healthcare..........

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Originally Posted by lets-retire
Has anyone stopped to think that maybe we are the richest/most powerful country in the would because we don't let the lazy suck off those who work their butts off.
That's a common observation and certainly may be a factor in some situations. But for all the anecdotes about self-inflicted illnesses, smokers, drinkers, obesity, etc. the reality is that everyone gets sick. Sooner or later everyone gets sick. And since health care is not like cars, you can't morally just not sell them the product cause they don't have the money.

So, if you believe the premise in your comment, it's probably best addressed in areas other than health care.

Leave the lazy/poor/high-risk, etc. out of the equation and who wil pay for it when their number comes up and they show up in the ER? Who else: the responsible, hard-working, better-off folks like us. I say cover them (means testing is fine with me) so at least you have a shot at getting them into treatment programs, paying for preventive drugs like BP meds, and keep them out of emergency rooms and the like.

I share your resentment about people who can contribute simply choosing not to, though. Just don't think they are the biggest part of the problem in re: health.
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Re: Listened to a program today on Universal Healthcare..........
Old 08-11-2006, 01:26 PM   #87
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Re: Listened to a program today on Universal Healthcare..........

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I share your resentment about people who can contribute simply choosing not to, though. Just don't think they are the biggest part of the problem in re: health.
Dicey train of thought on a forum dedicated to stopping work at the earliest possible opportunity.* Should we resent ourselves?

Ha
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Re: Listened to a program today on Universal Healthcare..........
Old 08-11-2006, 01:28 PM   #88
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Re: Listened to a program today on Universal Healthcare..........

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Originally Posted by HaHa
Should we resent ourselves?
I resent you asking that question.

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Re: Listened to a program today on Universal Healthcare..........
Old 08-11-2006, 01:37 PM   #89
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Re: Listened to a program today on Universal Healthcare..........

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Originally Posted by HaHa
Dicey train of thought on a forum dedicated to stopping work at the earliest possible opportunity. Should we resent ourselves?


OK, point taken. Let me re-phrase:

"I share your resentment about people who can contribute to their own welfare yet who simply choose not to. On the other hand, those scum-sucking, self-indulgent, ignorant, uncircumcised barnacles who retire early should all be drawn-and-quartered with all resulting injuries excluded from their health plans."

That work?

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Re: Listened to a program today on Universal Healthcare..........
Old 08-11-2006, 01:41 PM   #90
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Re: Listened to a program today on Universal Healthcare..........

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Originally Posted by Rich_in_Tampa
"I share your resentment about people who can contribute to their own welfare yet who simply choose not to. On the other hand, those scum-sucking, self-indulgent, ignorant, uncircumcised barnacles who retire early should all be drawn-and-quartered with all resulting injuries excluded from their health plans."
Does all the above still apply if your barnacle has been circumcised?

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Re: Listened to a program today on Universal Healthcare..........
Old 08-11-2006, 01:42 PM   #91
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Re: Listened to a program today on Universal Healthcare..........

Rich- I was talking macro not micro.
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Re: Listened to a program today on Universal Healthcare..........
Old 08-11-2006, 01:45 PM   #92
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Re: Listened to a program today on Universal Healthcare..........

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Originally Posted by REWahoo!
Does all the above still apply if your barnacle has been circumcised?
You always manage to cut through to the real meat of the problem.
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Re: Listened to a program today on Universal Healthcare..........
Old 08-11-2006, 01:46 PM   #93
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Re: Listened to a program today on Universal Healthcare..........

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Originally Posted by REWahoo!
Does all the above still apply if your barnacle has been circumcised?
Speak for yourself man, mine's a geoduck. *

Ha
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Re: Listened to a program today on Universal Healthcare..........
Old 08-11-2006, 01:52 PM   #94
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Re: Listened to a program today on Universal Healthcare..........

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Originally Posted by al_bundy
once in a while my wife looks at the best doctors in their fields, and most of them don't accept medicare or medicaid
All the best doctors I know in every field accept both Medicare and Medicaid. Virtually every physician at any major academic or research medical center does (some of the best practice in those settings).

What on earth are you referring to?

How are you determining who's the best? "Concierge" practices?
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Re: Listened to a program today on Universal Healthcare..........
Old 08-11-2006, 02:00 PM   #95
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Re: Listened to a program today on Universal Healthcare..........

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Originally Posted by Rich_in_Tampa
All the best doctors I know in every field accept both Medicare and Medicaid. Virtually every physician at any major academic or research medical center does (some of the best practice in those settings).

What on earth are you referring to?

How are you determining who's the best? "Concierge" practices?
Agree with you Rich.

When I lived in Boston my girl friend was badly injured. She was taken care of, mostly with reduced rates or free, by world famous doctors at Massachusetts General Hospital. IMO, the best doctors are often the least money oriented
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Re: Listened to a program today on Universal Healthcare..........
Old 08-11-2006, 02:32 PM   #96
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Re: Listened to a program today on Universal Healthcare..........

www.nymag.com

they do an annual survey of some of the best doctors
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Re: Listened to a program today on Universal Healthcare..........
Old 08-11-2006, 02:57 PM   #97
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Re: Listened to a program today on Universal Healthcare..........

Quote:
Originally Posted by HaHa
Speak for yourself man, mine's a geoduck.
I had a pithy rejoinder inquiring about a geoduck being a variety of shirmp, but...oh nevermind.


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Re: Listened to a program today on Universal Healthcare..........
Old 08-11-2006, 03:10 PM   #98
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Re: Listened to a program today on Universal Healthcare..........

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Originally Posted by al_bundy
www.nymag.com
they do an annual survey of some of the best doctors
But how do they determine the best?
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Re: Listened to a program today on Universal Healthcare..........
Old 08-11-2006, 03:39 PM   #99
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Re: Listened to a program today on Universal Healthcare..........

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Originally Posted by al_bundy
www.nymag.com
they do an annual survey of some of the best doctors
Al, I know these are very convincing ratings the way they are worded and edited.

I am not one of the world's best doctors. I have made the relevant "Best Doctors in Town" and even national listings virtually every year since I was 35 years old. Maybe because I am in academics. These are, alas, often polls of doctors rating their colleagues who just happen to refer a lot back and forth, etc. That plus the docs who are truly nationally recognized in their fields and live in the area. Lots of great doctors are included in the list, but even more docs who are popular. Not to demean anyone, but these are often an odd melange of true role models, ritzy practices, big practices, and good old boys/girls.

The bigger the city, the less likely they are to reflect scientific quality and interpersonal giftedness. They do measure a certain ability to sustain a legitimate, high profile practice, often with a high income slant. At least I would use caution before accepting that these listings represent "the best" or the worst. Hope that provides a bit of perspective.

They sell magazines but probably are not the definitive resource in this hard-to-measure parameter.
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Re: Listened to a program today on Universal Healthcare..........
Old 08-11-2006, 03:58 PM   #100
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Re: Listened to a program today on Universal Healthcare..........

Exact same thing goes for Best Lawyer lists.
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