Living the American Dream

Jay_Gatsby · 12-28-2005, 08:50 AM

I just came across the following article on Yahoo (which links to a series of articles by Forbes), and was absolutely flabergasted by the kind of money required to live the "American Dream" in various geographic areas. Here's the link if anyone is interested:

http://biz.yahoo.com/special/live05.html

Sheryl · 12-28-2005, 08:54 AM

Pretty scary!

Quote from the article, "a nice, but not opulent, life--private schools for the kids, a large house in an upscale neighborhood, a weekend retreat, a pricey night out once a week, a couple of very nice cars."

This is what they researched. I guess it depends on your definition of "opulent" but it's no wonder there are so many people saving nothing if this is what they consider "living well."

cute fuzzy bunny · 12-28-2005, 08:56 AM

Thats an opulent life. I want to see the authors definition of a less than nice lifestyle... and a 'really' opulent one...

Spanky · 12-28-2005, 09:21 AM

I see a significant portion of the costs is vacation home, private school, and college. Another big item is home payment. I think one can live "well" even without these items. Do we really need to have a vacation home? Do we really need to send our kids to a private college when a public insititution can provide the same level of education? Do we really need to live in an expensive home?

LEX · 12-28-2005, 09:23 AM

Inflated Ego's are way too expensive and an true challenge to ER. 8)

12-28-2005, 09:31 AM

Wow -- the cost of the vacation home alone for someone living in Atlanta is 1,600,000. Plus a lot of vacations not using the vacation home. Probably not very realistic . . .

cute fuzzy bunny · 12-28-2005, 09:35 AM

Swell, just what I need. Another house with another roof to leak.

Every time I think about buying a little place up in Lake Tahoe or in Napa, or a boat, all I have to do is think about the maintenance and repair. Turns me off completely.

**Martha** · 12-28-2005, 09:38 AM

We sold our cabin about a year and a half ago. Don't miss it one bit. All houses are money pits.

ladelfina · 12-28-2005, 10:39 AM

Arrgh.. Again with Forbes.. I lived in their #2 most expensive market and my two-income friends with kids seemed to do superlatively with $100-$150k between them (including vacation homes on the Cape and vacations abroad).

Forbes's version of the American Dream consists of throwing a lot of money away on things that are advertised (surprise!) in Forbes.

The "American Dream' used to be a chicken in every pot. Now it's a Lexus in every driveway.

I cracked up laughing when I saw "vacation homes" tending to cost 10-20% more than the primary home.. This for a house where you spend what's left of your allotted vacation time after your two-weeks-plus skiing in Europe or snorkeling in the Caribbean, mind you! No-one I ever knew with kids and a vacation house ever managed to make any serious use of it on weekends, anyway.. the kids always had too many weekend 'activities' scheduled.

More than double your housing expenditure and it inflates the numbers bigtime..

They might just as well present the "American Dream" as having a 'cottage' in Newport, a la Vanderbilt.. Just another chain-yanking in my opinion..* :P

"Jay Gatsby" should be able to enlighten us, no?

Outtahere · 12-28-2005, 11:25 AM

The sad and scary part is there are people that live like that now and others that aspire to live like that. I prefer to have the money in the bank.

Nords · 12-28-2005, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ()

Swell, just what I need.* Another house with another roof to leak.

Every time I think about buying a little place up in Lake Tahoe or in Napa, or a boat, all I have to do is think about the maintenance and repair.* Turns me off completely.

With so many vacation condos & rental boats available in so many different locations, it's hard to imagine why anyone would want to own one. Unless one needs to point at a possession and be able to say "mine mine mine."

One of the best features of every vacation we take is noting all the maintenance & repairs that need to be done on the place we're inhabiting. And I really enjoy walking around a cruise ship watching all the workers chasing rust... so that I don't have to!

**Martha** · 12-28-2005, 11:53 AM

Upper middle class? Eff me, the article is talking rich. Is rich a bad word now and Forbes won't say it?

It is kind of fun to look at examples of conspicuous consumption and get the good feeling of "I am better than them, I can resist the temptations of a material life."

Jay_Gatsby · 12-28-2005, 12:09 PM

I noticed that the assumed savings rate was less than 1%, which in my mind is completely unrealistic for even the most ardent of spendthrifts these days.* I mean, based on a $300k post-tax income, we're only talking about saving $3,000 a year?

As for aspiring to live like the people in the article, I do aspire to live like that, but I won't mortgage my ability for FIRE to pay for it.

Like (), I enjoy cruises because everything (other than the booze) is included.* You can often purchase a cruise for less than it costs to rent a room at a mediocre hotel for a night.

I think the piece was written to help people feel better about their conspicuous consumption.* If they have the trappings (but not the post-tax income) of the people portrayed in the piece, they must be rich upper middle class.* If Forbes referred to the people in the piece as rich or wealthy, there would be little personal identification with them, since people who engage in conspicuous consumption always consider themselves to be in the upper middle class (horrors of horrors if they could be considered anything less, since the middle class includes* blue collar types like plumbers).

SteveR · 12-28-2005, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martha

Upper middle class?* Eff me, the article is talking rich.* Is rich a bad word now and Forbes won't say it?

This opens up the whole conversation again about what defines Upper Middle Class from Rich. *Where does one draw that line? *

If the people in the article are rich then what about the folks that have NWs well over $10 million or $100 million. *It would seem they would be in a whole different "class" from those in this article. *

Wonder how much debt these people carry with all the toys and other expenses? *

brewer12345 · 12-28-2005, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martha

Upper middle class?* Eff me, the article is talking rich.* Is rich a bad word now and Forbes won't say it?

Heh, remember this is Forbes. "Rich" to them is probably upwards of $100 million NW.

Rich · 12-28-2005, 12:26 PM

Actually, I find it remarkable how comfortably we Americans can live on a relatively modest budget. The article, while amusing, was bogus.

jug · 12-28-2005, 02:56 PM

Amazing, its all in the mind.

I live IMHO pretty well, as far as Im concerned, on about 45000K cash a year.

I go on vacations overseas if I want, I have my 2 cars, my home. enough food in my belly.

Its all relative

jug

SteveR · 12-28-2005, 03:47 PM

For some people, the American Dream as shown in this article, means having what these people have as far as luxury items and private school for kids, big chunk of $$ for "luxury colleges" and the requisite country club memberships, $60k cars and vacation homes. For others, the dream is to have enough. Many on this board fall into the "have enough" category without going to the extremes shown in this article. Some here are at the extremes too (both high and low) as far as income and luxury items owned.

How much is enough? We each measure that with our own yardstick.

Arif · 12-28-2005, 03:49 PM

If that is upper middle class then I just slipped below the poverty line

laurence · 12-28-2005, 05:43 PM

I think Chris Rock said something about the difference between rich (or as Forbes puts it - upper middle class) and Wealthy:

"Shaq is Rich - the guy who write's Shaq's check and says, 'here ya go, Shaq, now go get an Escalade with 22 inch spinners!" is wealthy!"

I will never buy a vacation home, my parents own vacation homes in Big Bear, Mammoth, and Colorado, and I have free access. We've used the Big Bear once.

12-28-2005, 08:50 AM	#1
Jay_Gatsby Thinks s/he gets paid by the post Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 1,101	Living the American Dream I just came across the following article on Yahoo (which links to a series of articles by Forbes), and was absolutely flabergasted by the kind of money required to live the "American Dream" in various geographic areas. Here's the link if anyone is interested: http://biz.yahoo.com/special/live05.html __________________ He had one of those rare smiles with a quality of eternal reassurance in it . . . It faced, or seemed to face, the whole external world for an instant and then concentrated on you with an irresistible prejudice in your favor. -- The Great Gatsby, F. Scott Fitzgerald

12-28-2005, 08:56 AM	#3
cute fuzzy bunny Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ... Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Losing my whump Posts: 22,527	Re: Living the American Dream Thats an opulent life. I want to see the authors definition of a less than nice lifestyle... and a 'really' opulent one... __________________ Many an optimist has become rich by buying out a pessimist

12-28-2005, 09:21 AM	#4
Spanky Thinks s/he gets paid by the post Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Minneapolis Posts: 2,784	Re: Living the American Dream I see a significant portion of the costs is vacation home, private school, and college. Another big item is home payment. I think one can live "well" even without these items. Do we really need to have a vacation home? Do we really need to send our kids to a private college when a public insititution can provide the same level of education? Do we really need to live in an expensive home? __________________ May we live in peace and harmony and be free from all human sufferings.

12-28-2005, 09:23 AM	#5
LEX Recycles dryer sheets Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 325	Re: Living the American Dream Inflated Ego's are way too expensive and an true challenge to ER. 8) __________________ "TEMPUS FUGIT"

12-28-2005, 09:31 AM	#6
WhodaThunkit Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Living the American Dream Wow -- the cost of the vacation home alone for someone living in Atlanta is 1,600,000. Plus a lot of vacations not using the vacation home. Probably not very realistic . . .

12-28-2005, 08:54 AM	#2
Sheryl Thinks s/he gets paid by the post Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 1,461	Re: Living the American Dream Pretty scary! Quote from the article, "a nice, but not opulent, life--private schools for the kids, a large house in an upscale neighborhood, a weekend retreat, a pricey night out once a week, a couple of very nice cars." This is what they researched. I guess it depends on your definition of "opulent" but it's no wonder there are so many people saving nothing if this is what they consider "living well."

12-28-2005, 09:35 AM	#7
cute fuzzy bunny Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ... Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Losing my whump Posts: 22,527	Re: Living the American Dream Swell, just what I need. Another house with another roof to leak. Every time I think about buying a little place up in Lake Tahoe or in Napa, or a boat, all I have to do is think about the maintenance and repair. Turns me off completely. __________________ Many an optimist has become rich by buying out a pessimist

12-28-2005, 09:38 AM	#8
Martha Administrator Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: minnesota Posts: 9,861	Re: Living the American Dream We sold our cabin about a year and a half ago. Don't miss it one bit. All houses are money pits. __________________ . Do not rely on the information provided--my posts are not to be taken as legal advice. Needless to say you must consult with your legal representative. I am not responsible for errors. If I offended you with cya I apologize. If I did not, I tried.

12-28-2005, 10:39 AM	#9
ladelfina Thinks s/he gets paid by the post Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 2,652	Re: Living the American Dream Arrgh.. Again with Forbes.. I lived in their #2 most expensive market and my two-income friends with kids seemed to do superlatively with $100-$150k between them (including vacation homes on the Cape and vacations abroad). Forbes's version of the American Dream consists of throwing a lot of money away on things that are advertised (surprise!) in Forbes. The "American Dream' used to be a chicken in every pot. Now it's a Lexus in every driveway. I cracked up laughing when I saw "vacation homes" tending to cost 10-20% more than the primary home.. This for a house where you spend what's left of your allotted vacation time after your two-weeks-plus skiing in Europe or snorkeling in the Caribbean, mind you! No-one I ever knew with kids and a vacation house ever managed to make any serious use of it on weekends, anyway.. the kids always had too many weekend 'activities' scheduled. More than double your housing expenditure and it inflates the numbers bigtime.. They might just as well present the "American Dream" as having a 'cottage' in Newport, a la Vanderbilt.. Just another chain-yanking in my opinion..* :P "Jay Gatsby" should be able to enlighten us, no?

12-28-2005, 11:25 AM	#10
Outtahere Thinks s/he gets paid by the post Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 1,677	Re: Living the American Dream The sad and scary part is there are people that live like that now and others that aspire to live like that. I prefer to have the money in the bank. __________________ Dogs aren't our whole lives, but they make our lives whole. - Roger Caras

12-28-2005, 11:53 AM	#12
Martha Administrator Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: minnesota Posts: 9,861	Re: Living the American Dream Upper middle class? Eff me, the article is talking rich. Is rich a bad word now and Forbes won't say it? It is kind of fun to look at examples of conspicuous consumption and get the good feeling of "I am better than them, I can resist the temptations of a material life." __________________ . Do not rely on the information provided--my posts are not to be taken as legal advice. Needless to say you must consult with your legal representative. I am not responsible for errors. If I offended you with cya I apologize. If I did not, I tried.

12-28-2005, 12:09 PM	#13
Jay_Gatsby Thinks s/he gets paid by the post Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 1,101	Re: Living the American Dream I noticed that the assumed savings rate was less than 1%, which in my mind is completely unrealistic for even the most ardent of spendthrifts these days.* I mean, based on a $300k post-tax income, we're only talking about saving $3,000 a year? As for aspiring to live like the people in the article, I do aspire to live like that, but I won't mortgage my ability for FIRE to pay for it. Like (), I enjoy cruises because everything (other than the booze) is included.* You can often purchase a cruise for less than it costs to rent a room at a mediocre hotel for a night. I think the piece was written to help people feel better about their conspicuous consumption.* If they have the trappings (but not the post-tax income) of the people portrayed in the piece, they must be rich upper middle class.* If Forbes referred to the people in the piece as rich or wealthy, there would be little personal identification with them, since people who engage in conspicuous consumption always consider themselves to be in the upper middle class (horrors of horrors if they could be considered anything less, since the middle class includes* blue collar types like plumbers). __________________ He had one of those rare smiles with a quality of eternal reassurance in it . . . It faced, or seemed to face, the whole external world for an instant and then concentrated on you with an irresistible prejudice in your favor. -- The Great Gatsby, F. Scott Fitzgerald

12-28-2005, 12:26 PM	#16
Rich Recycles dryer sheets Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 97	Re: Living the American Dream Actually, I find it remarkable how comfortably we Americans can live on a relatively modest budget. The article, while amusing, was bogus.

12-28-2005, 02:56 PM	#17
jug Recycles dryer sheets Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 124	Re: Living the American Dream Amazing, its all in the mind. I live IMHO pretty well, as far as Im concerned, on about 45000K cash a year. I go on vacations overseas if I want, I have my 2 cars, my home. enough food in my belly. Its all relative jug

12-28-2005, 03:47 PM	#18
SteveR Moderator Emeritus Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 2,675	Re: Living the American Dream For some people, the American Dream as shown in this article, means having what these people have as far as luxury items and private school for kids, big chunk of $$ for "luxury colleges" and the requisite country club memberships, $60k cars and vacation homes. For others, the dream is to have enough. Many on this board fall into the "have enough" category without going to the extremes shown in this article. Some here are at the extremes too (both high and low) as far as income and luxury items owned. How much is enough? We each measure that with our own yardstick. __________________ Work? I don't have time to work....I'm retired.

12-28-2005, 03:49 PM	#19
Arif Full time employment: Posting here. Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 661	Re: Living the American Dream If that is upper middle class then I just slipped below the poverty line __________________ You take the blue pill - the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill - you stay in Wonderland and I show you how deep the rabbit-hole goes.

12-28-2005, 05:43 PM	#20
laurence Moderator Emeritus Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: San Diego Posts: 4,788	Re: Living the American Dream I think Chris Rock said something about the difference between rich (or as Forbes puts it - upper middle class) and Wealthy: "Shaq is Rich - the guy who write's Shaq's check and says, 'here ya go, Shaq, now go get an Escalade with 22 inch spinners!" is wealthy!" I will never buy a vacation home, my parents own vacation homes in Big Bear, Mammoth, and Colorado, and I have free access. We've used the Big Bear once.