LTC insurance? Other options?

[mathjak107]

an experience with a much older policy that had more holes and vagueness to it than anything you will likely see today .

i know our policy language is very clear ,simple and precise as to what is covered and when

[merlin3942]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mathjak107 nords had dealt with a much older policy with wording that would rival an old variable annuity . today most if not all policy's are in simple english with simple requirements in order to get paid . older policy's had loop holes and conflicting rules . our partnership plan is 3 years insurance , then it is the perks we want after the insurance runs out . bills are picked up by medicaid with no asset shifting , no asset look back , no trusts needed and most important no ridiculously low maximums on income for the stay at home spouse. it is great you do asset shifting or truets to protect assets . now try to live on the medicaid limits . our partnership plan does away with all that

Good to know! So you are saying there's hope!

[mathjak107]

i can only speak for my gensworth ny partnership plan . but i imagine today all of these policy's are cleaned up

[Nords]

Quote:

Originally Posted by merlin3942 Good to know! So you are saying there's hope!

Merlin, please contact me if you want to know more of the actual details and my experience with John Hancock's long-term care insurance policy. The phrases "...wording that would rival an old variable annuity" and "that had more holes and vagueness to it than anything you will likely see today" are not the experience I had.

Why I Won't Buy Long-Term Care Insurance - Military Guide

[ripper1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nords Merlin, please contact me if you want to know more of the actual details and my experience with John Hancock's long-term care insurance policy. The phrases "...wording that would rival an old variable annuity" and "that had more holes and vagueness to it than anything you will likely see today" are not the experience I had. Why I Won't Buy Long-Term Care Insurance - Military Guide

Great article, Nords. It's a big sham. Not worth it.

[mathjak107]

i would not consider a plan that was not a state partnership plan with perks . i could not give a rats butt about the 3 years insurance coverage i am paying for . i am really interested in the benefits after those 3 years are up .

we have 100% total asset protection , total income protection for the stay at home spouse . we have no look back , no asset spend downs, no irrevocable trusts needed .

as long as we pick a private home that will take medicaid 3 years later we are good to go . extended medicaid then pays the bills .

that is where the real value is . to have to first start with trusts and cut the stay at home spouse off from control of the assets and worse to live on an amount of income that represent impoverishment in nyc was not something i would want to do . just got our premium renewal last week and not a penny increase .

[misanman]

Saw this note this morning:

Quote:

Genworth Financial (NYSE:GNW) has agreed to sell itself to China Oceanwide (OTC:HHRBF). That works out to $5.43 per share in cash, a puny 4.2% premium to Friday's close, but comes as Genworth announces more troubles with its long-term care business and an after-tax charge in Q3 of $275M-$325M. BTIG's Mark Palmer notes GNW would surely today have traded sharply lower than its most recent price of $5.21 were it not for the weekend sale. A conference call is set for 8:00 AM ET.

[athena53]

Quote:

Originally Posted by misanman Saw this note this morning:

Wow. That's a biggie. A guy at our church sells a lot of Their LTC policies. It will be interesting to see how this plays out, although there are plenty of insurance companies in the US with foreign owners.

[Senator]

I am self-insuring. If I am incapacitated forever, who need the money. If I am of sound mind, and get committed to a home, I am going to be the most party animal the world has ever seen.

[MRG]

Quote:

Originally Posted by athena53 Wow. That's a biggie. A guy at our church sells a lot of Their LTC policies. It will be interesting to see how this plays out, although there are plenty of insurance companies in the US with foreign owners.

Many..

I am sometimes surprised of the "inbreeding of the industry" . Some of these multinational insurance companies were called clients when I was employed.

One observation is they all had local flavor. I'm guessing it's different to say your effed in South Africa than in Iowa.

[RobbieB]

Yup Genworth put me through the mill with all the paperwork requests and they never paid a dime.

[mathjak107]

the funny thing is you hear sporadic story's about them not paying a dime , yet all are in trouble pricing these plans because they are paying out more then anticipated .

the stories vs the numbers do not add up .

[misanman]

Quote:

the funny thing is you hear sporadic story's about them not paying a dime , yet all are in trouble pricing these plans because they are paying out more then anticipated . the stories vs the numbers do not add up .

Makes sense to me:

(1) the policies were priced too cheaply
(2) policy holders are trying to extract what they're owed for LTC
(3) the insurance companies are trying to stem their losses by resisting payment of claims

[athena53]

Quote:

Originally Posted by misanman Makes sense to me: (1) the policies were priced too cheaply (2) policy holders are trying to extract what they're owed for LTC (3) the insurance companies are trying to stem their losses by resisting payment of claims

I headed over to an actuarial discussion board once I saw the news on the Genworth acquisition and the general opinion is that the policies were way underpriced. One major element was assumptions on lapse rates- lapses are good from the company point of view because they pay premiums for years then stop- so the company never had to pay claims. In the beginning, not having any history, they used lapse rates from disability insurance, which turned out to be too high (and thus over-optimistic).

Another was interest rates. Pricing included assumptions about what rates of return the company would make when they invested the assets underlying the reserves (money set aside from collected premiums that will eventually be needed to pay claims). They rates may have been reasonable at the time of pricing, but in this investment market they turned out to be too high- another over-optimistic aspect of pricing.