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Re: Made in U.S., Shunned in China
Old 11-20-2005, 08:44 PM   #41
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Re: Made in U.S., Shunned in China

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Originally Posted by mikew
I think I read Bangor has more PHDs than silicon valley.
The one in Washington or the one in Maine? And in what subject(s)?!

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Originally Posted by mikew
Another thing is that American design too masculine. The rest of the world is moving towards cute. The last time I looked motorola cell phones looked like rocks compared to Japanese and European cell phones. Most people don't need a phone that can be run over by a car or a car that can run over a buffulo.
I'd be a lot more inclined to use a cell phone if I could find one that actually bridged the gap between my ear and my mouth without making me feel like I should be yelling into my cupped hand. We could call it, oh, I don't know, a "telephone handset".
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Re: Made in U.S., Shunned in China
Old 11-20-2005, 09:19 PM   #42
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Re: Made in U.S., Shunned in China

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I'd be a lot more inclined to use a cell phone if I could find one that actually bridged the gap between my ear and my mouth without making me feel like I should be yelling into my cupped hand.
Surprisingly enough, that is actually not needed. I have an earpiece, that was issued with my phone, which has a microphone built in that just barely sticks out of my ear and faces my mouth. Somehow it works just fine. Looks a little strange to see people using them, though -- they really look like they are talking to themselves.

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Re: Made in U.S., Shunned in China
Old 11-20-2005, 09:35 PM   #43
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Re: Made in U.S., Shunned in China

On mikew's rant, I would tend to agree. The idea that any one country could maintain a defensible lead in intellectual property seems hard to swallow. Thinking up stuff is the easy part -- making it work and producing it cheaply enough is the hard part.

And American design does look pretty bad in general. (Exception: I love my Dell Inspiron 300m. Though I must admit that my Japanese colleagues consider Dell to be cheap, unreliable crap.) It may be well-targeted to the American market, but it doesn't export very well. Hard to see how a competitive edge could be maintained there.

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Re: Made in U.S., Shunned in China
Old 11-20-2005, 09:49 PM   #44
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Re: Made in U.S., Shunned in China

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Saying America will keep the intellectual property and the rest of the world can produce it is drawing a line in the sand. I think I read Bangor has more PHDs than silicon valley. There are design studios that can produce anything that Americans can faster, cheaper, and at the same level or better. The same thing is happening in China. New research and design centers are spring up all over China. China is not following a traditional development path. They are developing at all levels of the ladder at the same time. Also every other country is coming up.

Another thing is that American design too masculine. The rest of the world is moving towards cute. The last time I looked motorola cell phones looked like rocks compared to Japanese and European cell phones. Most people don't need a phone that can be run over by a car or a car that can run over a buffulo.

America cannot just give away entire sections of industry and the production process when things get tough or else there will not be anything left. I think America needs to have a national policy on competiveness like India* China and Japan. This needs to be formulated by the govt with a national concensus. That needs to be made for the country not just industry. American industry does not have the same goals as America. As Lazarus has said.

And he stepped off the soap box
Mike
Mike, very astute and well expressed post.

ha
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Re: Made in U.S., Shunned in China
Old 11-20-2005, 10:05 PM   #45
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Re: Made in U.S., Shunned in China

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Originally Posted by bpp
And American design does look pretty bad in general.* (Exception:* I love my Dell Inspiron 300m.* Though I must admit that my Japanese colleagues consider Dell to be cheap, unreliable crap.)
Yeah, the Dell 300m is a nice machine. But not exactly a triumph of American design. It's made by Samsung.

Samsung Q20
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Re: Made in U.S., Shunned in China
Old 11-20-2005, 10:21 PM   #46
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Re: Made in U.S., Shunned in China

Looking around my house and office I found nothing "Made in USA" - interestingly, I have 4 "Superficially US" products - a GE telephone, Made in PRC", a Texas Instruments BAII Plus calculator also "Made in China", and a HP desktop and a HP Officejet 6110 Printer/Fax/Copier, both "Made in China".

As far as I can tell the only products I have/use with a US source are a VISA card, but that's issued by a local bank, Microoift software and a few Hollywood DVD/VCD's, but a decent % of those are fakes, made in Thailand, or China. I also have some AIA insurance coverage, but all of that is administered locally. Plenty of McDonalds but I would never eat there!
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Re: Made in U.S., Shunned in China
Old 11-20-2005, 10:47 PM   #47
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Re: Made in U.S., Shunned in China

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Much better to pay workers what they are worth in the present market and have portable benefits.
Cash on the barrel head, and low taxes so we can keep it.
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Re: Made in U.S., Shunned in China
Old 11-20-2005, 11:16 PM   #48
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Re: Made in U.S., Shunned in China

Well, again, we should be cultivating our strong higher education system and intellectual property. While Japanese cars are kicking American butt, those designs come from U.S. graduates. Art center in Pasadena has the preeminent transportation design program in the world.

You know, what does England produce? Their economy is older than ours, and they seem to be doing allright.
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Re: Made in U.S., Shunned in China
Old 11-20-2005, 11:20 PM   #49
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Re: Made in U.S., Shunned in China

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You know, what does England produce? Their economy is older than ours, and they seem to be doing allright.
Vodafone and David Beckham.

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Re: Made in U.S., Shunned in China
Old 11-20-2005, 11:30 PM   #50
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Re: Made in U.S., Shunned in China

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You know, what does England produce?* Their economy is older than ours, and they seem to be doing allright.
Good point. Here's a ranking of current account balances:

World Ranking

US is dead last, but the UK is just two places in front of us at #147. And they also have an inverted yield curve right now. And a popping housing bubble. Let's see how their economy and stock market does in the next few years.
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Re: Made in U.S., Shunned in China
Old 11-20-2005, 11:33 PM   #51
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Re: Made in U.S., Shunned in China

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. . .You know, what does England produce?* . . .
Fish & chips? Ale? That's a good question.
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Re: Made in U.S., Shunned in China
Old 11-20-2005, 11:57 PM   #52
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Re: Made in U.S., Shunned in China

wab writes:
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Yeah, the Dell 300m is a nice machine. But not exactly a triumph of American design. It's made by Samsung.
Oh well. That was one short-lived burst of patriotic pride.

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Re: Made in U.S., Shunned in China
Old 11-21-2005, 12:05 AM   #53
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Re: Made in U.S., Shunned in China

This factory is in Guangdong, China, apparently.

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Re: Made in U.S., Shunned in China
Old 11-21-2005, 12:35 AM   #54
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Re: Made in U.S., Shunned in China

Whoops should have checked my sources.
I guess I was thinking of bangor wales.
The original quote was from a case study.
There are boutique software shops in Gurgaon that have more PhDs per capita than you do down stairs and they’re not writing code for coffeemakers. These guys are doing embedded avionics software. And the Price advantage is one to five. Sometimes one to ten.HBR 6/2005

This was mixed up with some quotes I still haven’t tracked down yet.
But there were 175,000 tech workers in Silicon Valley and 160,000 in Bangalore India in July 2004. This was projected to grow to 200,000 sometime in 2004 or 2005.
from ZDnet
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Re: Made in U.S., Shunned in China
Old 11-21-2005, 07:24 AM   #55
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Re: Made in U.S., Shunned in China

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This factory is in Guangdong, China, apparently.
God bless the USA... :P
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Re: Made in U.S., Shunned in China
Old 11-21-2005, 07:29 AM   #56
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Re: Made in U.S., Shunned in China

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Where do you get this?

Ha
Eastern European Porn or the idea that it's quality is superior?

I guess the answer is same anyway. *
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Re: Made in U.S., Shunned in China
Old 11-21-2005, 12:51 PM   #57
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Re: Made in U.S., Shunned in China

Back to what the locals in China are buying.. When I was there in the very early 80's it remined me of photos from the early 40's (I was just a gleam in my Father's eye then).* Consider the purchasing decisions of those who lived through the depression in modest homes.* Every unit of purchasing power is precious.* The first consideration was need, then how long it would last.* Few of us must raise our families in the space they have, it makes Tiny Houses look like mansions.* They save their money because they have little room for goods, and when they do purchase they think long and hard.* I am just guessing here: washers and refrigs, communications devices are big sellers.* Even I remember ice boxes and what a big deal it was for my parents to purchase an electric refrig.* The washer had wringers of the roller type, upgrading to one that spun clothes was a big deal.* Mother hung the wash outside in good weather, in the basement when it rained.* Chinese don't have basements, they have bamboo poles they stick out of the window.* China will use cellular, no need to lay telephone wire.*

No wonder they reject bad quality, they can't aford it!

The kids (theirs and ours) don't remember those days.* Until they start raising families they will spend money on 'stuff'.

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Re: Made in U.S., Shunned in China
Old 11-21-2005, 01:02 PM   #58
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Re: Made in U.S., Shunned in China

I remember my first trip to China in 1985 -- there were only three consumer goods then that anyone could buy -- a fan (first rung on the ladder) a small college dorm-sized refrigerator (you were definitely upper-middle class) and the Color TV -- you set one up and the whole village hung outside your house and looked in the open window. They were all wearing Mao suits (blue jumpsuits) then.

Things got a long way in the next four years -- no Mao suits when I went back in 89. Now things are so chaotic and developed that my FIL, who is over there now, says 'don't bother coming to China for a vacation -- it's so developed, polluted, chaotic etc that you'll never enjoy yourself'. Apparently they've come a long way in a hurry. Makes you wonder where they're going during our lifetimes...
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Re: Made in U.S., Shunned in China
Old 11-22-2005, 05:26 PM   #59
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Re: Made in U.S., Shunned in China

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikew
America cannot just give away entire sections of industry and the production process when things get tough or else there will not be anything left. I think America needs to have a national policy on competiveness like India China and Japan. This needs to be formulated by the govt with a national concensus. That needs to be made for the country not just industry. American industry does not have the same goals as America. As Lazarus has said.
Trust in the invisible hand!

The last thing America needs is a bunch of bureaucrats picking industrial champions.
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Re: Made in U.S., Shunned in China
Old 11-22-2005, 07:39 PM   #60
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Re: Made in U.S., Shunned in China

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I think America needs to have a national policy on competiveness like India* China and Japan. This needs to be formulated by the govt with a national concensus. That needs to be made for the country not just industry. American industry does not have the same goals as America.
I was holding back, but...

OK, what we need is a bipartisan committee to start a new federal organization-- the Bureau of American National Competitiveness. It'll need a Cabinet-level secretary, of course, along with a national media campaign and a cool website. We'll need to overhaul our foreign policy, allocate a good portion of next year's federal budget, and possibly implement a national sales tax to fund the re-election campaigns programs.

Ready, everybody? Get out your wallets!
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