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Re: Mod Please Move to OTher ? Major Vulture Attack in Progress
Old 03-29-2006, 08:06 AM   #21
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Re: Mod Please Move to OTher ? Major Vulture Attack in Progress

"Look, I did nothing to create this crisis, I see them making almost no effort to solve it themselves and I resent being put in a position of guilt because others are bums. Explain to me where I'm at fault here?" I'm sure my standing in the family can't get any lower anyway.

I agree 100%. However, this is the type off statement a thinking person would make. A responsible person. A hard working person. A logical person. Don't expect a vulture to comprehend it. They're not going to care that they made their own mess and now they have to deal with it. All they comprehend is that they have a crisis and you have the means to help them out, and if you don't "save" them, then you're mean and evil.

Basically, you're going to be mean and evil in their eyes if you don't help them out, no matter how nicely or abruptly you turn them down. Just stand by your guns and don't let 'em get to you. I know that's hard to do with family, but sometimes you just gotta do it, for your own sanity.
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Re: Mod Please Move to OTher ? Major Vulture Attack in Progress
Old 03-29-2006, 08:09 AM   #22
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Re: Mod Please Move to OTher ? Major Vulture Attack in Progress

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rustic23
It would appear to me you have three options.
1. Donít answer Ė Mom is going to get to you sometime, so this option does not really seem to work.
Avoidance is not a very good technique. She will detect it.
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Re: Mod Please Move to OTher ? Major Vulture Attack in Progress
Old 03-29-2006, 08:18 AM   #23
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Re: Mod Please Move to OTher ? Major Vulture Attack in Progress

Is there someone like this in every family? *DH's brother is 52 and never had a steady job in his whole life. *DH's mom is paying the brother's rent, and has been for as long as I can remember. *She gets VA disability payments & SS, and is making ends meet, but would be a whole lot more comfortable without the leech. *The brother bleeds people dry wherever he goes. *He knows better than to ask DH for money, but I wonder what will happen when the First National Bank of Mom closes for good.

Good luck with this, OAP. *I know you have a big heart, but don't let the Vulture stomp on it.

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Re: Mod Please Move to OTher ? Major Vulture Attack in Progress
Old 03-29-2006, 08:46 AM   #24
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Re: Mod Please Move to OTher ? Major Vulture Attack in Progress

You are too funny, OAP. I know I sound pretty harsh about your family but we both know the only thing you share with them is some genes. You are very kindhearted and generous. I would love to see you give your money to some deserving person and reap the joy from doing so. You won't with the vultures. You deserve so much better.
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Re: Mod Please Move to OTher ? Major Vulture Attack in Progress
Old 03-29-2006, 08:49 AM   #25
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Re: Mod Please Move to OTher ? Major Vulture Attack in Progress

A couple of thoughts

1) Money won't solve their problems. If you give them money you are somewhat responsible as you are an enabler. Think about this !

2) When they call, just tell em they are a loser and need to get their act together. Let em know that you are on a "budget" now that you are retired and have no "spare" change. let em know that they are on their own.

3) maybe getting put out on the street would be the best thing for them in the long run. Let em' sleep in the shelter or in their cars for a few months.

and lastly remember that - You are not your brothers keeper !
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Re: Mod Please Move to OTher ? Major Vulture Attack in Progress
Old 03-29-2006, 08:54 AM   #26
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Re: Mod Please Move to OTher ? Major Vulture Attack in Progress

I know this may sound silly, but when I am in a difficult situation that I do not know how to handle, I have always resorted to "Love and Respect"

Tell your mother/sister calmly and lovingly but with few words, your gut feelings.

If they do not respect your feelings and argue with you, then at least you can feel whole, knowing your presented your case in an open loving way. How they take it and what they do with it is not in your control.

Also, your feelings are just that! They are yours. No one, not your mother, sister or minister can MAKE you feel any emotion. This puts you in the victim role. Only you control and choose your emotions.




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Re: Mod Please Move to OTher ? Major Vulture Attack in Progress
Old 03-29-2006, 08:58 AM   #27
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Re: Mod Please Move to OTher ? Major Vulture Attack in Progress

Not that you need any more commiseration OAP, but I have a situation that could morph into what you you have. My younger brother has always been the neer do well. Lives in a co-op my parents own, works an off the books job for BAM (bumming around money), etc. If he needs to be bailed out, he goes to the bank of mom & dad. Wants to start a business and needs capital, guess where he went?

I've tried really hard to stay neutral on the subject. Its my parents' money and they have it to spend, so let them spend it. I just really hope that when the gravy train stops running I don't become the next target of choice.
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Re: Mod Please Move to OTher ? Major Vulture Attack in Progress
Old 03-29-2006, 09:07 AM   #28
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Re: Mod Please Move to OTher ? Major Vulture Attack in Progress

I second what poboy said. Whenever a bum on the sidewalk hustles up to me and I think he is about to ask for a dollar, I shriek and ask him for ten bucks first. Not many can recover from this kind of pre emptive psychological counter attack...
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Re: Mod Please Move to OTher ? Major Vulture Attack in Progress
Old 03-29-2006, 09:20 AM   #29
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Re: Mod Please Move to OTher ? Major Vulture Attack in Progress

I consider myself lucky that I really don't have any vultures in my family circling overhead...yet, at least. Now when I was married, my wife's whole family was nothing but a flock of buzzards, but they're out of my life completely now.

The only thing I might have to worry about is my uncle, after my grandmother (his mother) passes away. But I don't consider him to be a vulture, he's more of a "failure to launch", I guess? : He's never been good with money, and never really had any money, so he probably wouldn't fend too well on his own. But he's also the type that would give you the shirt off his back, and what he can't do financially he always seems to find a way to do with good old fashioned manual labor. For instance, when Hurricane Isabel came through here back in late 2003, it brought down a couple of trees. Real big mess. I'm sure it would've cost a pretty penny to pay someone to cut it all up and haul it away. So instead he and I cut it up with chainsaws, and then a few months later rented a log splitter and cut it all up into nice, convenient-to-handle pieces.

He's the type of guy who may not have much in the way of financial resources, but still finds a way to save you money in the long run. Plus, my grandma is 82 years old now, and has had Macular degeneration for about 7-8 years, and there's no way she'd be able to keep up the house and everything if he didn't live with her. Even with me living right across the street, I just don't think it would be right for her to be living alone at this point.

I have a few former friends who are vultures. They were hard to cut off, simply because I tend to be a nice guy at all the wrong times. But I'm learning.
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Re: Mod Please Move to OTher ? Major Vulture Attack in Progress
Old 03-29-2006, 09:33 AM   #30
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Re: Mod Please Move to OTher ? Major Vulture Attack in Progress

OAP I too have a sibling that will one day look to me for bailing out and won't get it, at least not from me.

Your immediate concerns are to keep yourself as well as possible and enjoy your hard earned retirement where ever that may be. Give what you want to those that deserve it and none to those that don't.


Oh and I would love to be there for the revealing of the Trusts
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Re: Mod Please Move to OTher ? Major Vulture Attack in Progress
Old 03-29-2006, 09:36 AM   #31
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Re: Mod Please Move to OTher ? Major Vulture Attack in Progress

I feel for you OAP. You are a good hearted person and you have been very generous for your "charity" to your family but charity begins at home (your home where ever it will be).
You are on your own and you need to protect your financial future. It is easy for someone looking at your acumulated "wealth" and ask why you can't share it. They need to begin doing without.

Present them with the steps they need to do (which they will probably reject) and you move on.

I have something similar on much smaller scale brewing with my niece. My brother and my niece on several occasions have been trying to get my father (95) to help pay for her supposed divorce. When my Dad asks why my brother can't help, he says, he doesn't have the money. He is a retired postal worker and still has a 7 day part time job. My father tells him to speak to me and my other brothers as he has very little money left since he gave most of it away to us and the nieces.
My brother or my niece have not spoken to me yet about this and I haven't brought it up. I was going to dip into my charity fund and give my niece some money when I realized her mother (my SIL) whom I like , hasn't worked a day in her life while my brother has held down 2 jobs for years (his business, his choice).
If either came to me, I would suggest that my brother's loving wife/her loving mother sacrifice a little, and get a job to help her daughter out then I would be willing to contribute some money, if my niece still needed it.
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Re: Mod Please Move to OTher ? Major Vulture Attack in Progress
Old 03-29-2006, 09:47 AM   #32
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Re: Mod Please Move to OTher ? Major Vulture Attack in Progress

Quote:
I consider myself lucky that I really don't have any vultures in my family circling overhead...yet, at least. Now when I was married, my wife's whole family was nothing but a flock of buzzards, but they're out of my life completely now.
You poor thing, were you married to my ex...

Based on my experiences with folk like this, I say run like hell, just say NO, wash your hands, cliche, cliche...

They can't be helped; they must help themselves!!
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Re: Mod Please Move to OTher ? Major Vulture Attack in Progress
Old 03-29-2006, 09:49 AM   #33
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Re: Mod Please Move to OTher ? Major Vulture Attack in Progress

You poor thing, were you married to my ex...

Hmmm, your first name isn't Cliff by any chance, is it? If so, I'm sorry...
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Re: Mod Please Move to OTher ? Major Vulture Attack in Progress
Old 03-29-2006, 10:02 AM   #34
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Re: Mod Please Move to OTher ? Major Vulture Attack in Progress

I feel your pain!

My SIL is divorced and is disabled. *She is also a Princess and has some problems with not being able to make herself feel better with retail therapy. *She rents an apt. with one of her divorced daughters that was a kid. *The dad pays nothing and the daughter works at a fairly low paying job. *

We get a phone call last year....we had only been married 6 months at the time. *SIL is getting thrown out of ther apt. *Her medical insurance is being cancelled and they have no money for food. *Her car was just stolen, her credit cards are maxed out and she has a ton of late medical bills overdue, etc. and the grandkid is very sick...can you lend them some $$$? *Long story short...we lent them $8000 to get her bills back to current, her apt. rent paid and doctor bills paid. *She said she would pay us back. *Flash forward 6 months. *Another phone call...same issues....I ask if she has taken advantage of all the options open to her under disability with the welfare state she lives in. *She say no. I spend a ton of time researching all her options and send it to her. *She does nothing but all of sudden she now has SS disability and the state is paying part of her rent and utilites...she needs only $500 more to cover stuff until her health insurance kicks in again. *We pay it with the stipulation that this is IT...no more. *

We have gotten two checks from her for $10 as repayment. *: *It is better than nothing but I knew this was going to be a gift from the very begining. *The problem is what it has done to the relationship between my wife and her over this. *They hardly talk to each other and when they do it is very tense. *

Sometimes it is hard to know what to do. *Family would seem to be a better charity than some one you don't know but then again.....
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Re: Mod Please Move to OTher ? Major Vulture Attack in Progress
Old 03-29-2006, 10:13 AM   #35
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Re: Mod Please Move to OTher ? Major Vulture Attack in Progress

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldAgePensioner
I wonder if it's possible to hire someone to initiate embarrasing moments for evil siblings. Hmm, sounds like a great business op.
You know, I'm not far from South Carolina. Maybe you and I should talk a bit. I might happen to know some people who know some people...

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Re: Mod Please Move to OTher ? Major Vulture Attack in Progress
Old 03-29-2006, 10:21 AM   #36
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Re: Mod Please Move to OTher ? Major Vulture Attack in Progress

OAP,

More condolences from me--you've had a tough row to hoe this year, this is not what you need at this time.

- I agree with others--the "logical" approach won't work with folks who believe you must help them, even if it breaks you. And it will.

- Avoidance won't work in the long term, and will add to your stress.

- I think the options boil down to either a firm "no" or a "I just can't help"
-- The "NO" is the right answer--if we weren't dealing with real people. In addition to your Sis, your Mom may even be allienated by this. Now, if you can realy live with that (in full knowlwedge that the ire is a result of their own illogical sense of entitlement t what you worked hard for), then do it.
-- "I just can't help:" How about this twist on an earlier sugestion: Tell them that, with everything that has happened in your life, you really wanted to wash your hands of thinking about investments and doing all the monthly number crunching and worrying about money running out. You are really happy with the annuity you bought--it's certainly not much every month, but it is gauranteed for life and covers your bare necessities. If something really big does come up (say a medical expense) you might have to call Sis for a hand, and you're pretty sure she'll help out since you've helped her before.
This call would best be placed to Mom before she calls you. Tell her how relieved you are to have this money stuff off your mind. Just an idea.

I hope everything works out.

samclem
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Re: Mod Please Move to OTher ? Major Vulture Attack in Progress
Old 03-29-2006, 10:41 AM   #37
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Re: Mod Please Move to OTher ? Major Vulture Attack in Progress

Maybe you should itemize all the times you have been extorted and present that to them. Say, "Look, I'm not a bad guy. I gave you $15K on this date and $15K on this date" and on and on and show them the total. Have the sister do a similar list with how she spent the money.

Just a thought.

CJ
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Re: Mod Please Move to OTher ? Major Vulture Attack in Progress
Old 03-29-2006, 10:44 AM   #38
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Re: Mod Please Move to OTher ? Major Vulture Attack in Progress

I like SamClem's suggestion!!! Beat Sis to the sob story to head off the approach.* Maybe throw in that you will need help from family for care in your last days.*

If you take that great trip you have been dreaming about don't tell any family members (give your good bro your plans a sealed envelope and tell him to open it only if you turn up missing), just say that you are going camping to contemplate life.

Your Mom's situation, in the middle of it all, is of her own making.* In fact she may relish being MS Fix-it but she has blown her stash of cash on kid cash repairs that don't stick. Give her a chance to offer you a crying towel, she needs to feel needed.
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Re: Mod Please Move to OTher ? Major Vulture Attack in Progress
Old 03-29-2006, 10:54 AM   #39
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Re: Mod Please Move to OTher ? Major Vulture Attack in Progress

Here's one example of how whacked the logic of some vultures can be. When I was married, I drove a 1968 Dodge Dart. It hit the 300,000 mile mark shortly after we were married. My wife had nothing. I also had a 1967 Catalina and a 1957 DeSoto, but those types of cars don't make the best daily transportation in the world, so I bought a 1988 LeBaron turbo coupe from my uncle, for her to drive. It had power everything, leather, all these electronic gizmos, and was about as beautiful as a K-car could be. She loved it. She even gave it a name. "Baron". Okay, so it really didn't take much creativity to give a LeBaron THAT particular name! :

On one of those occasions when the wife was bitching about how I don't do anything for her, I mentioned the LeBaron. To which she replied "No, you didn't do anything FOR me. You wanted me to have that car, and you bought it because YOU wanted me to have it, not because I wanted it so NO, you DIDN'T do anything FOR me!"

She sure didn't bitch about it when I gave her that LeBaron when we split up! It was kinda funny; most of my family and friends thought I was a fool for letting her have the LeBaron...they said I should've kept it and given her the Dart! But the Dart, at least, was cheap and easy to fix when it broke. That LeBaron was dead as could be, in just about every respect, about a year and a half after we split. Nothing but a 2800 pound bookend, at around 115,000 miles.

Okay, so the Dart's now little more than a yard ornament, with 338,000 miles on it, but it got me reliably through a very rough time in my life!
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Re: Mod Please Move to OTher ? Major Vulture Attack in Progress
Old 03-29-2006, 11:19 AM   #40
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Re: Mod Please Move to OTher ? Major Vulture Attack in Progress

Tell your sister, mother and anyone else who engages that its obvious your sister cant afford her home and should sell it, and move to an apartment she can afford.

Make sure you tell (whoever) that once your sister has exhausted her own options for settling her life (which includes selling what she cant afford, selling what she shouldnt have bought, stop buying what she cant pay for, and getting jobs to pay the bills), if she needs a little help for ONE MONTH to get afloat and stablize her life, that you'll be happy to help with that.

Your motto is "OAP helps those who help themselves". There is no hope for the helpless.
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