Major Vulture Attack in Progress

Re: Mod Please Move to OTher ? Major Vulture Attack in Progress

I know this may sound silly, but when I am in a difficult situation that I do not know how to handle, I have always resorted to "Love and Respect"

Tell your mother/sister calmly and lovingly but with few words, your gut feelings.

If they do not respect your feelings and argue with you, then at least you can feel whole, knowing your presented your case in an open loving way. How they take it and what they do with it is not in your control.

Also, your feelings are just that! They are yours. No one, not your mother, sister or minister can MAKE you feel any emotion. This puts you in the victim role. Only you control and choose your emotions.

:)
 
Re: Mod Please Move to OTher ? Major Vulture Attack in Progress

Not that you need any more commiseration OAP, but I have a situation that could morph into what you you have. My younger brother has always been the neer do well. Lives in a co-op my parents own, works an off the books job for BAM (bumming around money), etc. If he needs to be bailed out, he goes to the bank of mom & dad. Wants to start a business and needs capital, guess where he went?

I've tried really hard to stay neutral on the subject. Its my parents' money and they have it to spend, so let them spend it. I just really hope that when the gravy train stops running I don't become the next target of choice.
 
Re: Mod Please Move to OTher ? Major Vulture Attack in Progress

I second what poboy said. Whenever a bum on the sidewalk hustles up to me and I think he is about to ask for a dollar, I shriek and ask him for ten bucks first. Not many can recover from this kind of pre emptive psychological counter attack...
 
Re: Mod Please Move to OTher ? Major Vulture Attack in Progress

I consider myself lucky that I really don't have any vultures in my family circling overhead...yet, at least. Now when I was married, my wife's whole family was nothing but a flock of buzzards, but they're out of my life completely now.

The only thing I might have to worry about is my uncle, after my grandmother (his mother) passes away. But I don't consider him to be a vulture, he's more of a "failure to launch", I guess? ::) He's never been good with money, and never really had any money, so he probably wouldn't fend too well on his own. But he's also the type that would give you the shirt off his back, and what he can't do financially he always seems to find a way to do with good old fashioned manual labor. For instance, when Hurricane Isabel came through here back in late 2003, it brought down a couple of trees. Real big mess. I'm sure it would've cost a pretty penny to pay someone to cut it all up and haul it away. So instead he and I cut it up with chainsaws, and then a few months later rented a log splitter and cut it all up into nice, convenient-to-handle pieces.

He's the type of guy who may not have much in the way of financial resources, but still finds a way to save you money in the long run. Plus, my grandma is 82 years old now, and has had Macular degeneration for about 7-8 years, and there's no way she'd be able to keep up the house and everything if he didn't live with her. Even with me living right across the street, I just don't think it would be right for her to be living alone at this point.

I have a few former friends who are vultures. They were hard to cut off, simply because I tend to be a nice guy at all the wrong times. But I'm learning. ;)
 
Re: Mod Please Move to OTher ? Major Vulture Attack in Progress

OAP I too have a sibling that will one day look to me for bailing out and won't get it, at least not from me.

Your immediate concerns are to keep yourself as well as possible and enjoy your hard earned retirement where ever that may be. Give what you want to those that deserve it and none to those that don't.


Oh and I would love to be there for the revealing of the Trusts >:D
 
Re: Mod Please Move to OTher ? Major Vulture Attack in Progress

I feel for you OAP. You are a good hearted person and you have been very generous for your "charity" to your family but charity begins at home (your home where ever it will be).
You are on your own and you need to protect your financial future. It is easy for someone looking at your acumulated "wealth" and ask why you can't share it. They need to begin doing without.

Present them with the steps they need to do (which they will probably reject) and you move on.

I have something similar on much smaller scale brewing with my niece. My brother and my niece on several occasions have been trying to get my father (95) to help pay for her supposed divorce. When my Dad asks why my brother can't help, he says, he doesn't have the money. He is a retired postal worker and still has a 7 day part time job. My father tells him to speak to me and my other brothers as he has very little money left since he gave most of it away to us and the nieces.
My brother or my niece have not spoken to me yet about this and I haven't brought it up. I was going to dip into my charity fund and give my niece some money when I realized her mother (my SIL) whom I like , hasn't worked a day in her life while my brother has held down 2 jobs for years (his business, his choice).
If either came to me, I would suggest that my brother's loving wife/her loving mother sacrifice a little, and get a job to help her daughter out then I would be willing to contribute some money, if my niece still needed it.
 
Re: Mod Please Move to OTher ? Major Vulture Attack in Progress

I consider myself lucky that I really don't have any vultures in my family circling overhead...yet, at least. Now when I was married, my wife's whole family was nothing but a flock of buzzards, but they're out of my life completely now.
Click to expand...

You poor thing, were you married to my ex... :'(

Based on my experiences with folk like this, I say run like hell, just say NO, wash your hands, cliche, cliche... :bat:

They can't be helped; they must help themselves!!
 
Re: Mod Please Move to OTher ? Major Vulture Attack in Progress

You poor thing, were you married to my ex...

Hmmm, your first name isn't Cliff by any chance, is it? If so, I'm sorry... :D
 
Re: Mod Please Move to OTher ? Major Vulture Attack in Progress

I feel your pain!

My SIL is divorced and is disabled.  She is also a Princess and has some problems with not being able to make herself feel better with retail therapy.  She rents an apt. with one of her divorced daughters that was a kid.  The dad pays nothing and the daughter works at a fairly low paying job.  

We get a phone call last year....we had only been married 6 months at the time.  SIL is getting thrown out of ther apt.  Her medical insurance is being cancelled and they have no money for food.  Her car was just stolen, her credit cards are maxed out and she has a ton of late medical bills overdue, etc. and the grandkid is very sick...can you lend them some $$$?  Long story short...we lent them $8000 to get her bills back to current, her apt. rent paid and doctor bills paid.  She said she would pay us back.  Flash forward 6 months.  Another phone call...same issues....I ask if she has taken advantage of all the options open to her under disability with the welfare state she lives in.  She say no. I spend a ton of time researching all her options and send it to her.  She does nothing but all of sudden she now has SS disability and the state is paying part of her rent and utilites...she needs only $500 more to cover stuff until her health insurance kicks in again.  We pay it with the stipulation that this is IT...no more.  

We have gotten two checks from her for $10 as repayment.  ::)  It is better than nothing but I knew this was going to be a gift from the very begining.  The problem is what it has done to the relationship between my wife and her over this.  They hardly talk to each other and when they do it is very tense.  

Sometimes it is hard to know what to do.  Family would seem to be a better charity than some one you don't know but then again..... :-\
 
Re: Mod Please Move to OTher ? Major Vulture Attack in Progress

OldAgePensioner said:
I wonder if it's possible to hire someone to initiate embarrasing moments for evil siblings. Hmm, sounds like a great business op.
Click to expand...

You know, I'm not far from South Carolina. Maybe you and I should talk a bit. I might happen to know some people who know some people... :D
 
Re: Mod Please Move to OTher ? Major Vulture Attack in Progress

OAP,

More condolences from me--you've had a tough row to hoe this year, this is not what you need at this time.

- I agree with others--the "logical" approach won't work with folks who believe you must help them, even if it breaks you. And it will.

- Avoidance won't work in the long term, and will add to your stress.

- I think the options boil down to either a firm "no" or a "I just can't help"
-- The "NO" is the right answer--if we weren't dealing with real people. In addition to your Sis, your Mom may even be allienated by this. Now, if you can realy live with that (in full knowlwedge that the ire is a result of their own illogical sense of entitlement t what you worked hard for), then do it.
-- "I just can't help:" How about this twist on an earlier sugestion: Tell them that, with everything that has happened in your life, you really wanted to wash your hands of thinking about investments and doing all the monthly number crunching and worrying about money running out. You are really happy with the annuity you bought--it's certainly not much every month, but it is gauranteed for life and covers your bare necessities. If something really big does come up (say a medical expense) you might have to call Sis for a hand, and you're pretty sure she'll help out since you've helped her before.
This call would best be placed to Mom before she calls you. Tell her how relieved you are to have this money stuff off your mind. Just an idea.

I hope everything works out.

samclem
 
Re: Mod Please Move to OTher ? Major Vulture Attack in Progress

Maybe you should itemize all the times you have been extorted and present that to them. Say, "Look, I'm not a bad guy. I gave you $15K on this date and $15K on this date" and on and on and show them the total. Have the sister do a similar list with how she spent the money. :-\

Just a thought.

CJ
 
Re: Mod Please Move to OTher ? Major Vulture Attack in Progress

I like SamClem's suggestion!!! Beat Sis to the sob story to head off the approach.  Maybe throw in that you will need help from family for care in your last days. 

If you take that great trip you have been dreaming about don't tell any family members (give your good bro your plans a sealed envelope and tell him to open it only if you turn up missing), just say that you are going camping to contemplate life.

Your Mom's situation, in the middle of it all, is of her own making.  In fact she may relish being MS Fix-it but she has blown her stash of cash on kid cash repairs that don't stick. Give her a chance to offer you a crying towel, she needs to feel needed.
 
Re: Mod Please Move to OTher ? Major Vulture Attack in Progress

Here's one example of how whacked the logic of some vultures can be. When I was married, I drove a 1968 Dodge Dart. It hit the 300,000 mile mark shortly after we were married. My wife had nothing. I also had a 1967 Catalina and a 1957 DeSoto, but those types of cars don't make the best daily transportation in the world, so I bought a 1988 LeBaron turbo coupe from my uncle, for her to drive. It had power everything, leather, all these electronic gizmos, and was about as beautiful as a K-car could be. She loved it. She even gave it a name. "Baron". Okay, so it really didn't take much creativity to give a LeBaron THAT particular name! ::)

On one of those occasions when the wife was bitching about how I don't do anything for her, I mentioned the LeBaron. To which she replied "No, you didn't do anything FOR me. You wanted me to have that car, and you bought it because YOU wanted me to have it, not because I wanted it so NO, you DIDN'T do anything FOR me!"

She sure didn't bitch about it when I gave her that LeBaron when we split up! It was kinda funny; most of my family and friends thought I was a fool for letting her have the LeBaron...they said I should've kept it and given her the Dart! But the Dart, at least, was cheap and easy to fix when it broke. That LeBaron was dead as could be, in just about every respect, about a year and a half after we split. Nothing but a 2800 pound bookend, at around 115,000 miles.

Okay, so the Dart's now little more than a yard ornament, with 338,000 miles on it, but it got me reliably through a very rough time in my life!
 
Re: Mod Please Move to OTher ? Major Vulture Attack in Progress

Tell your sister, mother and anyone else who engages that its obvious your sister cant afford her home and should sell it, and move to an apartment she can afford.

Make sure you tell (whoever) that once your sister has exhausted her own options for settling her life (which includes selling what she cant afford, selling what she shouldnt have bought, stop buying what she cant pay for, and getting jobs to pay the bills), if she needs a little help for ONE MONTH to get afloat and stablize her life, that you'll be happy to help with that.

Your motto is "OAP helps those who help themselves". There is no hope for the helpless.
 
Re: Mod Please Move to OTher ? Major Vulture Attack in Progress

By the way, i've got two of these freight trains shadowing me, ready to bear down. Mother in law and brother in law who both spend like drunken sailors and have no savings, plenty of debt. Both require good physical health to do their jobs and keep feeding the pipeline. Either one falls down and breaks something, its going to get interesting.
 
Re: Mod Please Move to OTher ? Major Vulture Attack in Progress

OAP,

- I think you probably need to do what you can to disengage from the machinations of how the siblings have mismanaged their financial lives. If you set up hoops for them to meet whereby you'll help them if they do A and B, you'll just invite an endless string of excuses and fabrications, and you'll be in the postion of "parent" which they will resent even more than a firm "no".

- I don't think you should feel bad about making up the story about the fixed income annuity--I'd classify it as a "white lie." (Did sis feel bad when she lied to you about getting her $$ act straight?) Oh, and just to head off the next assault, (their request that you might tap into your home equity), I'd mention that you already did that in order to buy the biggest monthly annuity that you could ("it is the only way I could get a monthly check big enough to cover my food and medications"). This will put you in the position of being totally tapped out of liquid rources and on a fixed income barely big enough to meet your needs. Heck, you could probably make up a neet loking projection that the nce annuity guy made for you--put it on some cheesy leterhead and everyone woud think it was legit.

- And I recall that you had a really big probem with the kids spending off Mom's money. You might even convince her to get a REAL annuity. Yes, it is normaly a terrible idea but for her (and for you) it might be much better than te alternative of having the kids spend all her money.

samclem
 
Re: Mod Please Move to OTher ? Major Vulture Attack in Progress

You gotta say, "NO!" and stand your ground. You didn't create the problem and you've done more for them than they deserve. You may not be popular but, right
now, you're being used like a Tool!

I don't see much advantage to be evasive. Just tell it like it is! If they aren't happy, Well, such is life. It may not be easy but, it's gottta be done.

I didn't realize, so many people had such similar problems. Money or lack of it,
certainly creates serious problems.

Good Luck!
 
Re: Mod Please Move to OTher ? Major Vulture Attack in Progress

samclem said:
-  And  I recall that you had a really big probem with the kids spending off Mom's money.  You might even convince her to get a REAL annuity.   Yes, it is normaly a terrible idea but for her (and for you) it might be much better than te alternative of having the kids spend all her money.

samclem
Click to expand...

I wouldn't do that.  There are plenty of sleazebags legitimate businesspeople out there who will happily give you a lump sum in exchange for your annuity payments.
 
Re: Mod Please Move to OTher ? Major Vulture Attack in Progress

OAP you should add that to your byline here, fits the situation perfectly.
 
Re: Mod Please Move to OTher ? Major Vulture Attack in Progress

OAP:   Wow, you are really generous to have given your sister over $100,000 over the past few years.    I would tell your sister "the bank is now closed."   Doesn't sound like she has made one ounce of an effort to stand on her own two feet.  Don't be an enabler!  
 
Re: Mod Please Move to OTher ? Major Vulture Attack in Progress

OldAgePensioner said:
justin,
dude, if you still live close to where I lived on Gorman back in the 80's, you are just one county away from my mob. :D

unless you send me that Cambodian money, I'm going to tell my vultures that I know a very generous philanthropist near Gorman St who would love to supply them with money. :D
Click to expand...

I'm not far from Gorman St., but it's still a couple counties from here to the SC border. Are your vultures in NC now?

Yeah, I was thinking of getting some Cambodian family involved if you needed a "hand" taking care of vultures... ;)
 
Re: Mod Please Move to OTher ? Major Vulture Attack in Progress

"Since 2000, I've been extorted via my mom for $100,000 at least.  Sometimes in chunks of $15,000.  "

Oh. My. G*d.

I think that's more than I spent on my children over their entire lives--and they're almost 30! I would definitely mention the total figure (with a detailed accounting, if necessary) to whoever is pressuring you. No matter how illogical, it's gotta give them pause if not shut them up entirely--good grief!

I'd stick to bringing food when visiting or taking the extended family out to eat during occasional get-togethers (hmmm, if you can beat their company for an entire meal...).

If I suddenly lost all my savings (can't imagine how since I'm so diversified-), I'd have my house on the market so fast even my own head would spin, and I'd sell just about all belongings that the house buyers didn't want to pay for, including my car. Then the hubster and I would move to a tiny, cheap apartment walking or bus-stop distance from his job and possibly sell the other car. And even though I'm not in great health, I would get a job. I don't even think I would be all that traumatized. Good grief, poor/working class folks have always had to do this sort of thing, and throughout the history of the world, that's the vast majority of human beings.
 
Re: Mod Please Move to OTher ? Major Vulture Attack in Progress

OAP

Listen, do you remember me?

I'm a distant cousin on your mothers side. If you don't mind I could use a little help. Please let me know if you need my address.

Thanks,
Cousin Joe
 
Re: Mod Please Move to OTher ? Major Vulture Attack in Progress

Sounds like this is largely a case of affluenza... the sister wants to live at a higher standard of living than she can afford. But she has been able to afford that house until now with some economic outpatient support. She has to readjust her consumption to her means, but as long as her means include bailouts from the brother, this won't happen.

I have a sister that is up to her ears in debt and eyes my stash as a solution. What I have come to decide is that I will not support her living beyond a minimal level. If she finally gets so down and out that she can't buy shelter or food then she can move in with me and eat my food. I'm sure that living experience would be enough motivation for her to get back on top of things :uglystupid:

Since you're going to be moving around that might not be an option for you, but you could tell her that you'll pay for a room at a cheap-but-safe residence hotel for a month or two if she needs it.

If your sister can't afford her house, then moving out is clearly the best thing for her.
 
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