Major Vulture Attack in Progress

[cute fuzzy bunny]

By the way, i've got two of these freight trains shadowing me, ready to bear down. Mother in law and brother in law who both spend like drunken sailors and have no savings, plenty of debt. Both require good physical health to do their jobs and keep feeding the pipeline. Either one falls down and breaks something, its going to get interesting.

[samclem]

OAP,

- I think you probably need to do what you can to disengage from the machinations of how the siblings have mismanaged their financial lives. If you set up hoops for them to meet whereby you'll help them if they do A and B, you'll just invite an endless string of excuses and fabrications, and you'll be in the postion of "parent" which they will resent even more than a firm "no".

- I don't think you should feel bad about making up the story about the fixed income annuity--I'd classify it as a "white lie." (Did sis feel bad when she lied to you about getting her $$ act straight?) Oh, and just to head off the next assault, (their request that you might tap into your home equity), I'd mention that you already did that in order to buy the biggest monthly annuity that you could ("it is the only way I could get a monthly check big enough to cover my food and medications"). This will put you in the position of being totally tapped out of liquid rources and on a fixed income barely big enough to meet your needs. Heck, you could probably make up a neet loking projection that the nce annuity guy made for you--put it on some cheesy leterhead and everyone woud think it was legit.

- And I recall that you had a really big probem with the kids spending off Mom's money. You might even convince her to get a REAL annuity. Yes, it is normaly a terrible idea but for her (and for you) it might be much better than te alternative of having the kids spend all her money.

samclem

[Sundance Kid]

You gotta say, "NO!" and stand your ground. You didn't create the problem and you've done more for them than they deserve. You may not be popular but, right
now, you're being used like a Tool!

I don't see much advantage to be evasive. Just tell it like it is! If they aren't happy, Well, such is life. It may not be easy but, it's gottta be done.

I didn't realize, so many people had such similar problems. Money or lack of it,
certainly creates serious problems.

Good Luck!

[brewer12345]

Quote:

Originally Posted by samclem -* And* I recall that you had a really big probem with the kids spending off Mom's money.* You might even convince her to get a REAL annuity.* *Yes, it is normaly a terrible idea but for her (and for you) it might be much better than te alternative of having the kids spend all her money. samclem

I wouldn't do that. *There are plenty of sleazebags legitimate businesspeople out there who will happily give you a lump sum in exchange for your annuity payments.

[Outtahere]

OAP you should add that to your byline here, fits the situation perfectly.

[Ginger]

OAP: * Wow, you are really generous to have given your sister over $100,000 over the past few years. * *I would tell your sister "the bank is now closed." * Doesn't sound like she has made one ounce of an effort to stand on her own two feet. *Don't be an enabler! *

[justin]

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldAgePensioner justin, dude, if you still live close to where I lived on Gorman back in the 80's, you are just one county away from my mob. unless you send me that Cambodian money, I'm going to tell my vultures that I know a very generous philanthropist near Gorman St who would love to supply them with money.

I'm not far from Gorman St., but it's still a couple counties from here to the SC border. Are your vultures in NC now?

Yeah, I was thinking of getting some Cambodian family involved if you needed a "hand" taking care of vultures...

[astromeria]

"Since 2000, I've been extorted via my mom for $100,000 at least.* Sometimes in chunks of $15,000.* "

Oh. My. G*d.

I think that's more than I spent on my children over their entire lives--and they're almost 30! I would definitely mention the total figure (with a detailed accounting, if necessary) to whoever is pressuring you. No matter how illogical, it's gotta give them pause if not shut them up entirely--good grief!

I'd stick to bringing food when visiting or taking the extended family out to eat during occasional get-togethers (hmmm, if you can beat their company for an entire meal...).

If I suddenly lost all my savings (can't imagine how since I'm so diversified-), I'd have my house on the market so fast even my own head would spin, and I'd sell just about all belongings that the house buyers didn't want to pay for, including my car. Then the hubster and I would move to a tiny, cheap apartment walking or bus-stop distance from his job and possibly sell the other car. And even though I'm not in great health, I would get a job. I don't even think I would be all that traumatized. Good grief, poor/working class folks have always had to do this sort of thing, and throughout the history of the world, that's the vast majority of human beings.

[73ss454]

OAP

Listen, do you remember me?

I'm a distant cousin on your mothers side. If you don't mind I could use a little help. Please let me know if you need my address.

Thanks,
Cousin Joe

[free4now]

Sounds like this is largely a case of affluenza... the sister wants to live at a higher standard of living than she can afford. But she has been able to afford that house until now with some economic outpatient support. She has to readjust her consumption to her means, but as long as her means include bailouts from the brother, this won't happen.

I have a sister that is up to her ears in debt and eyes my stash as a solution. What I have come to decide is that I will not support her living beyond a minimal level. If she finally gets so down and out that she can't buy shelter or food then she can move in with me and eat my food. I'm sure that living experience would be enough motivation for her to get back on top of things

Since you're going to be moving around that might not be an option for you, but you could tell her that you'll pay for a room at a cheap-but-safe residence hotel for a month or two if she needs it.

If your sister can't afford her house, then moving out is clearly the best thing for her.

[Brat]

If Mom calls tell her you don't discuss anyone's financial issues with third parties, Sis herself must call you.*

Locate a good financial advisor of the credit counseling type in Sis's community, tell this person that you have a relative in need and ask how much s/he would charge for 8 hours of services- maybe pay this person a bonus if Sis never calls you again.* When/If Sis calls tell her you have arrainged for a financial advisor because you are confident that she can learn to manager her affiars, and after you are gone there will be no one around to help her.

[LRS]

You don't need any more advice, yet here I am with my shovel-load:

What Andre69 said way back on page one is right. I just want to comment about wanting love and family-feeling from your sibs: they will not love you if you keep on giving them money, nor will they appreciate what you are doing for them. In fact, they will despise you even more and treat you like a fool.

You wish you could at least help your mom. But she is working on their behalf, not yours. All of them are willing to lie in order to get money from you.

Don't explain anything to them, or try to lie to them. If you do, they will wait patiently until you stop making noise, then they will clamor for you to shove more money down their gullets. When you have no more money, you will be of no further use to them.

Move, leave no forwarding address, send postcards at holidays from your post office box. Try developing friendships with people with whom you share common interests and a bond of trust. Transfer your craving for family there.

I agree this is harsh but you may actually be helping them more by removing yourself as the locus of their dependency. Their lives won't stop, they will manage to blunder on without you.

[bbuzzard]

Amen. I feel like a must be a cold hearted B#!%#$d, but there is no way that a free-loading realtive would get $100k from me. If they are helping themselves, and need temporary help, that is one thing, but you have something else on your hands. Makes me glad that no one (family or otherwise) has a clue about my net worth. In fact, I suspect most of them think I am signficantly less affluent than they are, as a live a poor lifestyle. I did give my stock broker brother $200 when he lost his job in 1987 (we all remember the 1987 market correction) (don't laugh, I was in graduate school and just married and that was probably 10-15% of our discresionary income for the year). He did not ask for it, and has paid it back in varuious ways x10 in the following years.

[MJ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cj Maybe you should itemize all the times you have been extorted and present that to them. Say, "Look, I'm not a bad guy. I gave you $15K on this date and $15K on this date" and on and on and show them the total. Have the sister do a similar list with how she spent the money. Just a thought. CJ

Unfortunately just like in business, the attitude from these types of people is "what have you done for me lately". The good deads of the past are forgotten.

[astromeria]

OAP, who's the bleeding heart here--you are SO nicer than me!

My kids got aged cars as college graduation gifts from me. In fact, my daughter's fiance still drives that ancient Acura, leaking oil and without a functional A/C, because my daughter couldn't afford to park it in DC when she moved there for grad school. And she wouldn't dream of asking me to subsidize her parking--she knows I would've said No, and without a moment's hesitation. Nobody in a city needs a car--they just want one.

BTW, my daughter used the Acura wihtout A/C during the summer she interned at* ExxonMobil headquaters in Dallas--in fact she drove from Boston to DC to my house in SC to TX and back wihtout A/C--and lived to tell the tale* I did offer to spend the $2k necessary to fix the A/C, but she refused on the grounds that it was an unnecessary luxury.

We breed 'em tough in New Yawk and Bawstin* 8)

[shorttimer]

OAP, don't take this the wrong way but you need help. A good counselor can help you at setting limits and exploring how you get sucked into this vortex of cash removal. I am no expert but it sounds to me like a co-dependency type relationship going on. Like those people who bring food to a person who is so fat they can't stand and the fire department finally has to come and cut a hole in the wall to get them to the hospital.

I am so cheap when my brother called to ask for $5,000 I said no. He has had more new cars in ten years than I have had my whole life, eats out all the time, and does not hesitate to buy stuff. He has a state pension and bowed out the first chance -he acts like he is an executive at Microsoft instead of a low to middle class citizen.

One of my coworkers is almost seventy and flat broke but comes in showing off her new QVC expensive clothes all the time "they were the buy of the day",cheap gaudy jewelry and spends a fortune on having her hair done. Very sad, but she blames it on being a widow. Could it be she spends more a month on clothes than DH and I do in a year? And of course, none of the kids work, they depend on handouts and who they can hook up with for money. One of her sons is in his fourties and has never ever had a job! Can you imagine?

As long as you lie down people will step on you. Get up, brush yourself off and take care of your own physical and mental health. The idea of showing your Mom how much you have given them is good. Get an answering machine. Move and get a PO box and communicate that way. Call your mom from a pay phone if need be with a phone card. Do you really think you are helping anyone? Really?

[cute fuzzy bunny]

You can go with the route that I've planned to offer if and when my family nightmare materializes.

"All of our money is tied up in investments that periodically produce enough income for us to live on, and maybe a little extra to help you for a very short time, which you would have to pay back. If we tried to free up as much cash as you need, the tax implications would be five figures at least and our long term budget would be screwed up. At best we would be blowing up any inheritance for our son. Can we help you work up a plan for you to sell some stuff or for other people in your household to pitch in and get jobs and cut your spending to help you get back on your feet?

Hello? Hello? Are you still there?"

All of it is true. No funny business, no avoidance, no lying, offer of help...

[Martha]

OK, OAP, you have six pages of responses. EVERYONE says cut them off. Stop it, stop it, stop it. You don't need to beat yourself up about them anymore. You have given them plenty of money. Money doesn't help. The help they need isn't going to come from you.

Go to San Francisco. Give only your brother your telephone number.

You got rid of your possessions. Time to get rid of the leeches.

It seems like you do this because you are worried about your mom. Tell her that the only reason you have helped is because you care for her. Tell her that you are worried about her, but giving money hasn't helped. She is still depressed and rapidly losing all her assets to her greedy children. Suggest counseling. If her insurance doesn't pay, you could offer to pay the counselor directly.

[Martha]

But you are not helping your mom. You money isn't helping her. Believe me.

If you care to try to help her, she sounds like she needs an intervention. Ignore the tears. Send her to counseling. No more money. End it.

No more "yes, buts".

[Outtahere]

Standing next to Martha, nodding in agreement OAP you'd better listen to the Queen!!!!