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Re: Major Vulture Attack in Progress
Old 03-31-2006, 06:44 AM   #81
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Re: Major Vulture Attack in Progress

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldAgePensioner
gt,
novel idea but I figure that approach might get me arrested for cruelty to near-animals.* *
Well you did say you wanted a "slick" idea. I would say this qualifies.!!!
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Re: Mod Please Move to OTher ? Major Vulture Attack in Progress
Old 03-31-2006, 08:59 AM   #82
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Re: Mod Please Move to OTher ? Major Vulture Attack in Progress

Quote:
Originally Posted by HaHa
Good link Jane. I would never put myself forward as a poster boy for contentment or achievement, but compared to my 3 sibs I'm "Da Champ." What was the difference? I got the hell out of Dodge, and stayed out. After my first son was born I welcomed them back into my life, but on my terms.

Sometimes it's the rejects that do better than the favorites. It smarts a little when some sibs call me "Mean Mikey", but I'll survive.

Ha
HaHa,

That's something I believe is critical to true independence. I did the same thing when I headed off to law school -- went to Washington, D.C. and stayed. Little Fish/Big Pond forced me to push myself much farther than I would have if I'd stayed close to home and attended a local law school.

OAP -- The advice along the lines of "just say no" is spot on, and tracks the advice in The Millionaire Next Door. Economic Outpatient Care is not a sustainable model, and the person receiving it never learns to stand on his/her own feet. It takes financial trauma -- or at least the very real threat of it -- for some people to "wake up" to the financial realities of life and face their bad spending/saving habits. Unfortunately, many people turn to drugs or alcohol to avoid such a confrontation with reality. If you see this happening, then I'd recommend stepping in to help, if only to pay for drug/alcohol counseling (along with some financial counseling).

Now that I think about it, perhaps offering financial counseling is better than just saying NO to your mother. What would your mother say if instead of just simply giving more money, you offered to hire a financial advisor/credit counselor? (e.g., someone who is used to handling bankruptcy of former big spenders springs to mind) Sometimes you have to turn to a professional who is accustomed to dealing with denials of reality. Although a bit cheesy, some of the forced-behavioral makeover shows spring to mind -- e.g., Nanny 911, SuperNanny, The Biggest Loser, Boot Camp, etc... In conjunction with hiring a professional, you could offer a financial incentive upon successful completion of X number of sessions with the financial advisor and a "passing grade" given to you by the financial advisor.
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Re: Major Vulture Attack in Progress
Old 03-31-2006, 10:03 AM   #83
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Re: Major Vulture Attack in Progress

Cut it off decisively or it will never end. If foreclosure process starts help her find a good bankruptcy attorney and the filing will stop the process for a while. Maybe she can go Chap 13 and work it out. She probably has lots of other debt.
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Re: Major Vulture Attack in Progress
Old 03-31-2006, 10:14 AM   #84
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Re: Major Vulture Attack in Progress

don't know about now but you just need to train them better next time around. mom ran the house businesslike. i got dollars for good grades with the threat of losing money for bad ones. allowance for chores. nothing but love came free. even many of our arguments were settled with written agreements signed by all parties.

when we lived in the islands and went from the condo on the beach to the boat in the marina, my ol'man drove through the poorest section of town and he'd hit a couple of streets twice. when we drove from the florida house on the water out west to visit my grandparents in their retirement area, we never took the main roads. instead the ol'man drove us through the poorest areas, torn apart houses, litter, bums on the street.

one day i asked him why he took those routes. seems he did it for himself (and maybe even for me). he answered: "there but for the grace of god go i."
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Re: Major Vulture Attack in Progress
Old 03-31-2006, 10:16 AM   #85
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Re: Major Vulture Attack in Progress

Poor little princess--I wonder if she feels pride only in her car & house (the screaming fit over losing the new beemer seems a dead giveaway). How sad to never have experienced the satisfaction of earning something, achieving something on your own--and I don't just mean something that costs money, but accomplishments, being a good sister/neighbor/citizen, being able to trust yourself. But it's not too late at 45 if just the right thing would come along and clang her on the head....maybe one of those outward-bound type retreats that teaches self-reliance, new skills, surprising yourself with your inner strength, and mutual give-and-take instead of just being a taker...maybe she'd go if you called it a celebrity spa* :
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Re: Major Vulture Attack in Progress
Old 03-31-2006, 11:47 AM   #86
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Re: Major Vulture Attack in Progress

Quote:
Originally Posted by lazygood4nothinbum
one day i asked him why he took those routes. seems he did it for himself (and maybe even for me). he answered: "there but for the grace of god go i."
LG4NB,
I love this. Very potent.
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Re: Major Vulture Attack in Progress
Old 03-31-2006, 11:50 AM   #87
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Re: Major Vulture Attack in Progress

Hey OAP, you better watch out! They just started the North Carolina Lottery yesterday. Now your little vultures will be more broke than ever.
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Re: Major Vulture Attack in Progress
Old 03-31-2006, 12:09 PM   #88
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Re: Major Vulture Attack in Progress

OAP, don't you mean they'll buy tickets with your last dollar?

(sorry..could not resist)
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Re: Major Vulture Attack in Progress
Old 03-31-2006, 12:23 PM   #89
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Re: Major Vulture Attack in Progress

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldAgePensioner
oh geez louise, justin,
say it ain't so. just when I put down the bottle and get a couple of pots of black coffee in me, you go and put terror back in me.

no kidding, they will buy tickets with their last dollar.
But they can win up to $100,000 dollars! That'll fix all their problems!

Net proceeds from the lottery do go to support education :

Is "full-time lottery ticket scratcher" considered an occupation? If so, at least your vultures will be employed.
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Re: Major Vulture Attack in Progress
Old 03-31-2006, 12:49 PM   #90
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Re: Major Vulture Attack in Progress

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldAgePensioner
Jay_Gatsby,
If my spendthrifts were put on a reality show it would be more popular than American Idol.* Imagine my younger sister (45 yo) trying to justify owning a new BMW without ever having worked 1 day in her life.

My brother recently tried to convince her that she needed to sell the car and get something more economical.* He said she went into a rage, screaming about how much she loved the car and would not part with it.* *She's a Princess.
I guess the practical, well-reasoned and behavior modification approach won't work with them in their current state. Perhaps financial trauma is the best thing for them at this point... Sad, very sad.

You've convinced me that the "just say no" approach is the best one. Let your siblings deal with a bankruptcy court judge.
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Re: Major Vulture Attack in Progress
Old 03-31-2006, 12:54 PM   #91
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Re: Major Vulture Attack in Progress

Jay_Gatsby,
thanks for the advice. Just last evening my brother and I gave it a bit of brain storming and, sadly came to the conclusion that they will need the shock of hitting the bottom. I'm a bit worried about the stress on him.

They truly don't get it. They are confident that I/he will bail them out again.
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Re: Major Vulture Attack in Progress
Old 03-31-2006, 01:29 PM   #92
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Re: Major Vulture Attack in Progress

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldAgePensioner
Jay_Gatsby,
thanks for the advice.* Just last evening my brother and I gave it a bit of brain storming and, sadly came to the conclusion that they will need the shock of hitting the bottom.* I'm a bit worried about the stress on him.

They truly don't get it.* They are confident that I/he will bail them out again.
There's no stress like seeing family members struggle -- especially if you have the means of alleviating their suffering. The problem in doing so in your situation is that you're not really alleviating any suffering, just transferring it from them to you.

Remember Law Number 10 of the 48 Laws of Power: Infection: Avoid the Unhappy and Unlucky

"You can die from someone else’s misery – emotional states are as infectious as disease. You may feel you are helping the drowning man but you are only precipitating your own disaster. The unfortunate sometimes draw misfortune on themselves; they will also draw it on you. Associate with the happy and fortunate instead."
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Re: Mod Please Move to OTher ? Major Vulture Attack in Progress
Old 03-31-2006, 01:45 PM   #93
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Re: Mod Please Move to OTher ? Major Vulture Attack in Progress

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Originally Posted by OldAgePensioner
"I know that I should leave but then, I just can't go (they) win again"
Old Hank, the white man's blues singer. This song, "You Win Again" was one that sometimes put me to bed at night, and was still there to greet me first thing in the morning. Just remember, stomping can flow both ways.



Ha
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Re: Major Vulture Attack in Progress
Old 03-31-2006, 01:52 PM   #94
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Re: Major Vulture Attack in Progress

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay_Gatsby
Remember Law Number 10 of the 48 Laws of Power: Infection: Avoid the Unhappy and Unlucky
i'd never heard of this before so i looked it up on the web. ick.

and apparently the next law puts oap right back to square 1.

"Law 11

Learn to Keep People Dependent on You

To maintain your independence you must always be needed and wanted.* The more you are relied on, the more freedom you have.* Make people depend on you for their happiness and prosperity and you have nothing to fear.* Never teach them enough so that they can do without you."

there, you see oap. it's not that they have $ problems. it's that you have all that power.
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Re: Major Vulture Attack in Progress
Old 03-31-2006, 01:54 PM   #95
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Re: Major Vulture Attack in Progress

Quote:
Originally Posted by lazygood4nothinbum
instead the ol'man drove us through the poorest areas, torn apart houses, litter, bums on the street.

one day i asked him why he took those routes. seems he did it for himself (and maybe even for me). he answered: "there but for the grace of god go i."
That sounds familiar. *My boss (the greatest boss I ever had, and I sincerely mean that!) is African American, and she and her 3 brothers were raised by their school-teacher-mom after their father died when they were very young. *They all worked very hard, and are all very successful. *My boss has 2 young boys, and whenever they shirk their responsibilities or don't do their homework, she packs them in the car and takes them on a drive through the poorest section of town and shows them the deadbeats hanging out on the street corner. *She asks them, "do you want to turn out like that??" *Lesson learned. *They seem to be really nice kids, so far!

CJ
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Re: Major Vulture Attack in Progress
Old 03-31-2006, 02:01 PM   #96
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Re: Major Vulture Attack in Progress

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Originally Posted by cj
*They all worked very hard, and are all very successful. *
they must've gone to the same school, cornell or hard knocks, same difference? i imagine your boss's kids did way better than i (than me? where's my hardbrace handbook when i need it). it didn't really teach me to work hard or become successful. though i never spoiled (too badly). & it gave me incentive to be inventive in my laziness.
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Re: Major Vulture Attack in Progress
Old 03-31-2006, 02:08 PM   #97
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Re: Major Vulture Attack in Progress

l4ngb (saw LL use that earlier),
ick is right. I seem to be in violation of all 48 Laws.

cj, likewise, I've seen a past friend who influenced all his children to get the maximum education (usually college) that they were capable of. What he did I'll never know but I do know I've never met a harder working person. Never. Sun up to midnight.
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Re: Major Vulture Attack in Progress
Old 03-31-2006, 04:36 PM   #98
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Re: Major Vulture Attack in Progress

Do like I do: Tell nobody what you have and claim to be in debt too.
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Re: Major Vulture Attack in Progress
Old 03-31-2006, 05:25 PM   #99
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Re: Major Vulture Attack in Progress

MODERATORS, ATTENTION.

This thread has more than helped me decide what to do. I am just going to say no and offer to help with any legal, financial advisor, etc.

Therefor, if this thread is deemed to still be helpful to others, OK, but if not, I will not throw a hissy fit if it is LOCKED.
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