Many ARE saving enough for retirement

[Cut-Throat]

CT, for once I can finally say I agree with you 100%

Well of course you agree with me, because this is one of the knee-jerk right-wing opinions. I never have said all the right wing ideas were wrong - just about 95% of them are.

 

[donheff]

Well of course you agree with me, because this is one of the knee-jerk right-wing opinions. I never have said all the right wing ideas were wrong - just about 95% of them are.

Good one CT, don't let em make you change your colors.

 

[jazz4cash]

The teachers I know (including my sister) think the money is decent and pension is great, but the disparity comes in the level of hardship required because of all the administrative crap they have to do that is not really teaching and low marginal esteem society has for public school teachers. We really don't give them the tools they need to deal with all the extraneous problems like dangerous conditions, poverty, kids that are hungary, not ready for school, etc. etc.

If you teach in an area that has an abundance of these problems and/or high cost of living, the pay seems much less.

 

[Dog]

Response to the comment about the teaching profession having strong union representation. The WEA (WA Educ Assoc) doesn't hesitate to use children as a marketing tactic in their politicing. No one is going to attack or question spending more money on the children/students. A pretty powerful tool and they don't hesitate to use it. Most teachers I know complain about their compensation and the hours that they work. Interestingly, most have never worked full time in the private sector - going straight from college to teaching.

 

[Spanky]

Most teachers I know complain about their compensation and the hours that they work.

So do other professions (even doctors, atheles) cry for higher pay and less work - it's part of human nature.

 

[mathjak107]

i wont say teachers have it easy here in nyc but for a job where you work about 6 months out of a year with all the time off the pay is great and the benefits amazing.if most of us only worked 6 months out of the year our incomes would be a far cry from theirs.i dont feel sorry for them at all!

 

[astromeria]

My, but some teachers have an amazing amount of time off! My son teaches public school in Eastern MA, where he has 9 weeks off in summer and 3.5 weeks at other times of year: ~3 months off in total. He's paid $45k in his 6th year of teaching, and is eligible for his pension (60% of pay) after 27 years of service.

 

[mathjak107]

my buddy retired from the new york city board of ed.he gets 75k a year in pension and fully paid medical...whats that worth ?
most teachers complain and complain but nobody ever leaves.

i wonder how many teachers would give up their 9 to 3 for a 9 to 5+ job and their 3 to 6 months of time off for 2 weeks vacation .
as well as give up their retirement benefits for a "you get whatever you can save deal " like the rest of the working stiffs like us

 

[mathjak107]

astro lets start a new topic" teachers who complain" ha ha

 

[Spanky]

most teachers complain and complain but nobody ever leaves.

i wonder how many teachers would give up their 9 to 3 for a 9 to 5+ job and their 3 to 6 months of time off for 2 weeks vacation .

Like most government workers, they complain but will stay unless they can get a better offer (most likely from another government agency or school system).

 

[mathjak107]

yep problem is most teachers and gov't workers have not worked long enough in private industry to see what it is they really have and all the benefits.when we had the transit strike in nyc these transit workers had not a clue what the benefits they had were worth in private sector..it was sickening seeing them shutting our city down because it wasnt enough.

 

[FIRE'd@51]

No one has mentioned tenure, which is probably one of the biggest benefits (and also the cause of some teachers "just putting in time" after several years of teaching). When my sister was teaching, tenure was given after just two years in the public schools. Is it still that way?

 

[astromeria]

Tenure policies depends on the school. My son got tenure after 3 years of middle school teaching, but it's not automatic--2 young teachers who started with him didn't get tenure. During the 4 years my daughter taught, a couple of people also didn't get tenure--so I have to assume it isn't uncommon.

Tenure was so unimportant to my son that he never mentioned it for nearly a year despite an average of two conversations a week--and even then it was only because I asked him how long until he'd be up for tenure!

At the college where my husband teaches, it takes 6 years--and you have to pass a 3-year review mid-way. If you don't pass, you're out of the dept--this happened to one of the 2 new profs hired during or jsut before my husband went there. Thse who don't pass go to another school (or to private industry, as was the case here) and start over.

Note that sometimes profs go to another school for other reasons, but they still have to start over for tenure. For example, 2 of DH's colleagues are married to each other and moved to his school from another state. They had to start their 6 years from scratch, even though they were hired as Associate Professors.

 

[FIRE'd@51]

Tenure policies depends on the school. My son got tenure after 3 years of middle school teaching, but it's not automatic--2 young teachers who started with him didn't get tenure. During the 4 years my daughter taught, a couple of people also didn't get tenure--so I have to assume it isn't uncommon.

Were those individuals who didn't get tenure rehired by the school to try again, or were they told they would never get tenure at that school?

Tenure was so unimportant to my son that he never mentioned it

That is somewhat surprising, since there is a significant value to having a guaranteed job for life (or as long as you want it).

 

[astromeria]

Were those individuals who didn't get tenure rehired by the school to try again, or were they told they would never get tenure at that school?

I don't know--but I do know of those who didn't get tenure, they all left the schools and some left teaching entirely. Ya gotta earn tenure--your colleagues have to think you've got the right stuff as well as the dept chair, dean/principal of your school--and at college, the members of that year's tenure committee (that would include faculty and staff from outside your dept). Someone in my husband's department was denied promotion to full Professor, and he's still there. He's an awesome teacher and contributor to the college, and a wonderful human being and ppular with students and faculty, but the tenure committee felt that his scholarly research has been a bit thin of late. He will try again--but he's long since tenured.

That is somewhat surprising, since there is a significant value to having a guaranteed job for life (or as long as you want it).

My son is idealistic. Of course, he's still under 30 Seriously though, permanent employment was not part of the appeal for him--although the summer vacation and pension were. As an experienced camp counselor/instructor, he knew that teaching was for him.

 

[FIRE'd@51]

Someone in my husband's department was denied promotion to full Professor................. He's an awesome teacher and contributor to the college, and a wonderful human being and popular with students and faculty, but the tenure committee felt that his scholarly research has been a bit thin of late.

I've always thought it paradoxical that colleges and universites hire people to teach, then base tenure and promotion decisions almost entirely on research.

 

[Zoocat]

Tenure in the public schools K-12 is really not the same as in higher education. You can be fired in K-12 or let go so much more easily in case of budget cutbacks or for cause (the causes for firing are more liberally applied).

 

[SolidA]

OK, I've been reading, and finally HAD to weigh in. Any of you who think teaching is a "piece of cake dream job" is MORE than welcome to come spend a week in my classroom. FYI, I started my professional life in the private sector (marketing) and switched to teaching in my thirties. I have been teaching now for 12 years (oops - I gave my age away! ), have NEVER had a summer off (can you say "mandatory CEU's" - that I, not the district, have to pay for) and of course, summer school teaching so I could make ends meet (single mom, 2 sons).

I chose this profession as a calling - the salary was NOT attractive, compared to what I could have made in the private sector. Most of my students have probation officers, have problems at home, are behind in their schoolwork, etc. etc. I spend hours every week coming up with new ideas and curriculum (much of it purchased out of my pocket) to keep my students (junior high) engaged and in school. Any one who thinks this is a cush job, email me and you can come volunteer in my classroom to find out for yourself!!!

All this being said, I wouldn't go back to private sector work - I do love what I do. The pension (to which I contribute over HALF, directly out of my pay, whether I want it or not) will make up for the lack of salary now, but WE DO NOT GET PAID RETIREMENT MEDICAL BENNIES. Also, I contribute to my 403B because I know the pension won't be enough. Yes, some teachers who are retiring now have better benefits - they were grandfathered in. Times have changed - so, before you all weigh in with your opinions, check the current facts!!! 'Nuff said

 

[donheff]

Times have changed - so, before you all weigh in with your opinions, check the current facts!!! 'Nuff said

As you will see from previous posts, I taught years ago and am in awe of the skill and committment of many teachers. But I do agree with the many posters who point out that the market appropriately sets the pay/benefits. People are lined up for teaching slots so it would be folly for taxpayers (or tuition payers at private schools) to agree to higher wages. There are, undoubtedly, other things we could demand of our school districts to improve but who believes that raising teacher pay would, in itself, lead to pupil performance improvemments in under achieving schools?

 

[yakers]

People are lined up for teaching slots so it would be folly for taxpayers (or tuition payers at private schools) to agree to higher wages.

Maybe in your area, there are literally hundreds of unfilled openning in Los Angeles. It used to be that anyone with a degree could get a teaching job, now a specific credential is required. This commonly turns into a 5 year requirement for a not so great paying job in pretty brutal conditions-new teachers commonly get the less desirable schools. My wife just retired from teaching in LA, her pension is all of $24K a year and she will not get SS. But she loved teaching and is planning on working with a local college in placing new teachers in class rooms. From my perspective almost all of her "free" time was taken up grading papers, writing presentations, writing lesson plans and the like.

My sister is a teacher in Chicago, not great pay. She had a wonderful (not financially, but fulfilling) life teaching overseas in Turkey, Columbia & Korea but will now have to work into her 70s to get a survivable pension. She is trilingual, has a Masters and was a National Merit scholar. Probably could have been better paid in industry.

I have met plenty of former teachers in industry, every single one makes more than when they were teaching. (one senior manager used to teach French in HS!) They all thought teaching was tough and not worth the money so they are no longer there.

Now NYC may be different, they seem to have high saleries and benifits but that is not common accross the country.

I agree that the most critical improvements in education are not financial. It would be great for Principals to be able to get rid of poor performing teachers for instance. But just because some problems can not be solved by additional funds does not mean that additional funds are not warrented and a necessary part of the package for improving schools.

 

[mathjak107]

I can't speak for other areas other than new york so ill keep my comments to the nyc bored of ed.In the scheme of earning potentials with a masters two professions stand out as the lowest paid jobs you can take utilizing the masters.Social worker is one and teaching is the other.Like i said the pay for the amount of time worked is great but amount wise its less than a masters usually brings here in nyc.
So heres the point:Our entire education system starting with college in our city and state colleges seem to be geared to cranking out teachers and social workers if you have no clear cut goal of being anything else when you go in.Its structured like a funnel.The classes that lead to teaching are always plentiful,they are a little easier ,they are set up in such away that once you take a few of these and follow up with another like psych101 and psych 102 you start to fall into this funnel that leads to teaching or social worker.The classes seem to lead no where except down the teaching funnel.Its the systems way of creating teachers.Not that its a bad thing its just if a kid isnt aware of this sly little setup before they turn around there is no hope of being anything else without starting from scratch again with different classes.

 

[Rob]

I visit this website for some ideas and inspiration, and I usually get it. I've been teaching for more than 30 years and am 59 yo+. I will have a comfortable pension, and it is not from any state. Instead it is with a private teacher pension plan (TIAA-CREF). I am having some difficulty making the move to retirement, because of the desire to always have more in my pension plan. However, I am getting to the point that life is so short. 52K a year is enough for a single man even if I do not have my own house. The high deductable insurarance I have (cost of insurance is $3,500/year) alleviates the health costs fear.

As with any job, the headaches and irritations you have at 59 were exciting challenges at 30. I'm rapidly reaching the point of wanting change, whether it be hobbies or volunteer work. Akaisha and Billy with their website (RetireEarlyLifestyle.com) and this website certainly have helped me. It takes me a bit longer than most to finally make the move. Even 59 is not really that early to retire anymore.

Rob

 

[SteveR]

I visit this website for some ideas and inspiration, and I usually get it.  I've been teaching for more than 30 years and am 59 yo+.  I will have a comfortable pension, and it is not from any state.  Instead it is with a private teacher pension plan (TIAA-CREF).  I am having some difficulty making the move to retirement, because of the desire to always have more in my pension plan.  ...  It takes me a bit longer than most to finally make the move. Even 59 is not really that early to retire anymore.

Rob

Welcome to the club!
Some have a harder time knowing when enough is "enough." Me included. I ER'd in 2002 but took another less stressful job in a smaller company with the hope that things would be different. At first they were but over time the job is stale and my BS bucket is full. It is time for me to leave. The nest has a lot of feathers but adding a few more each month is hard to walk away from. At some point you have to just take a chance with the math and with what you have done. The many here that have taken the leap into ER are an inspiration to the rest of us.

My countdown clock is now tied to the sale of my cabin instead of a specific date. Once we sell I am gone. DW has 10 months to go but she knows she is on the downhill side and each day is a bit better; despite her current health issues.

Go with your gut. Life is indeed too short and tomorrow is not promised to any of us. I know this all too well as do others here. Do the math. Check it twice and if you can do it.....DO IT.

Good luck to you.

 

[rs0460a]

I ER'd in 2002 but took another less stressful job in a smaller company

Sorry - but it sounds like you didn't "early retire", but just decided to "change the landscape".  Of course, there is nothing wrong with that, but it certainly isn't retirement...

- Ron

 

[SteveR]

Sorry - but it sounds like you didn't "early retire", but just decided to "change the landscape".  Of course, there is nothing wrong with that, but it certainly isn't retirement...

- Ron

Never said I was retired, only that I took an ER from my former company. I was ER'd but chose to work for anonther company for a while.