market to crash again, down by 35% (S&P 600) by year end, Gary Schilling

Do you think he is right?

  • Yes

    Votes: 25 19.4%
  • No

    Votes: 104 80.6%

  • Total voters
    129
The market goes crazy on the way up, and also on the way down. Are we at nose-bleed valuation now? Same as many others, I don't think so.

Of course since when should one only adopt a cautious posture when "we are at nosebleed valuation"? Maybe there is a weak assumption in that. Who said that stocks can't go way way down when they are at less than nosebleed valuation? What defines nosebleed valuation?

Most of the public commenters who use data and not just blather (PE10 or similarly averaged valuation measures state (and give data) to show that current valuations are about at the long term average.

So, all other things being equal, we might expect stock prices to grow with the growth in earnings, not aided or hindered by PE expansion or compression.

In today's conditions, does that rate a larger than usual equity allocation, smaller than usual, or just about medium?

Everyone will have his or her own answer, but it is not a trivial quesion.

Ha
 
There are many many people who post on this board who do not have much in equities; you didn't hear from them when the equities were strong and you didn't hear from most of them during the past year, either. I'm glad Helena is happy with her investment decisions, but that doesn't make her (or anyone else who's thrilled with their own investment results) an oracle. No one should change an investment strategy because someone touts a "cash is king" mantra, or someone has been successful in real estate, or someone has cornered the beaver cheese market.

Personally I am waiting for the great beanie baby rebound....
 
That beanie baby inventor was smarter than all of us. He had all those suckers..I mean, "investors in collectibles" really believing they had something worth collecting. What a scam artist! And who would ever believe that, anyway? Lots of folks did. I think he gained his money the Mary Kay way: on the backs of hardworking but uneducated folks. Sorry to say it, but that's the way I saw it.
 
He created a product for which there was demand. It became a fad and the rest is history.
Just because someone participates in a fad doesn't mean they were scammed or are uneducated.
 
Ha, there is nothing in your post that I disagree with. I think the current valuation is fair, and many stocks pay quite decent dividends compared to CDs. The real question is then, looking ahead, are things getting better? I think company profits won't get worse, or mainly, not getting to be in such dire situation as presumed in the March 2009 bottom, even if unemployment remains bad. I keep reminding myself that the market always tries to look ahead. When things don't turn out as bad or rosy as they seem, there are violent corrections.

So, one should always be cautious. Except for the younger members who still have income to keep DCA'ing in the face of a W-shaped recovery, most people here do not have a 100% equity portfolio. We all have various exposures from 40% on up to 70%, if I recall correctly, according to our own risk level. The extreme position of holding all CDs or Treasury has less than 1/5 of the membership here, if I could venture a guess. Some still believe in deflation. I tend to side with Buffet when he said in a recent interview that there is no chance of that.

And by the way, our outlook on the economy tends to be affected by our political inclination. As said in previous posts, some of my close friends hated Clinton when he first took office. Being Libertarians, they believed that he would bring the country to ruinous inflation, hence went to all gold in the early 90s. I won't repeat what happened to their portfolio. I like to take the middle road. Being a centrist, with admittedly a good-sized bias on the conservative side, I still did not think any administration or Congress could totally destroy the US, or the world economy, and kept my stocks.

So, 100% stock or 100% CD or Treasury or 100% gold is never my position. Works for me so far. I am still down 19% from top of market in Oct 2007, but that money, I would never had if I weren't in the market in the first place.

I think that people tend to forget that they are free to manage their money the way they like. So, why do people get hot under the collar? Right or wrong, nobody cares about your money but yourself. My friends went 100% gold. Did I call them stupid and make fun of them? Let me say that we are still good friends, and they have reverted to owning stocks for a few years now, by their own cognizance.


PS. Regarding the Buffet recent interview, he said that we are faced with inflation down the road, but that is the price to pay. He said it was like rescuing a man in quick sand by using a rope to yank him out with a pickup. Sure, he gets dislocated shoulders, but the alternative would be a whole lot worse!
 
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1974 - ballpark 60/40 transferred to NOLA Denver hadn't made it to the Superbowl yet.

2009 - ballpark 65/35. Retired 15 years.

Soooo when are we gonna talk about something important like the Saint's finally making it to the big show?

I mean a little market fluctuation here and there over the years is one thing but the Saint's in 4th quarter can be a real heart stopper.

:ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:

heh heh heh - I have no memory as to where I picked up on the '60/40 policy portfolio', so called 'traditional pension fund' and have rued many a day over the decades all the portfolio's(in hindsight) that beat the pants off what I owned - but in the end it got the job done.

Now about those dang Saint's! A few guys a the doughnut shop have old never say die Chiefs hats on - but at least they made it once. :(.

Maybe one great Norwegian widow stock to console me.
 
That beanie baby inventor was smarter than all of us. He had all those suckers..I mean, "investors in collectibles" really believing they had something worth collecting. What a scam artist! And who would ever believe that, anyway? Lots of folks did. I think he gained his money the Mary Kay way: on the backs of hardworking but uneducated folks. Sorry to say it, but that's the way I saw it.

He created a product for which there was demand. It became a fad and the rest is history.
Just because someone participates in a fad doesn't mean they were scammed or are uneducated.

+1 to Zathras. Geez Orchidflower, is every capitalist a bad person that just steals from others? He made a product people liked, they bought it. If some were speculating in them, well that's their own business.

My wife and kids had a bunch of 'em. They were kinda cute, and ~ $5 as I recall. The guy was smart, because $5 makes it a very affordable treat/indulgence.

We need a govt agency to select each and every purchase we make. We all are obviously just too stupid to avoid "scams". :rolleyes:

He probably ended up paying a lot of taxes too. Yep, let's get rid of that top 2% of earners... bad people (until we count on them to pay 90% of the taxes).

-ERD50
 
If someone participates in a fad because they like it (or whatever other reason they have), well, if they enjoy it then more power to them. But this beanie baby company tried to get the public to buy that they were actually purchasing "collectibles." THAT was the scam they were perpetrating. But if someone likes beanie babies, thinks they are cute or whatever, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. Just don't think they are "collectibles", because they aren't and never will be.
Personally, I have a friend who owns a gift shop who sold beanie babies, and a friend who bought them by the dozen for her mother who collected them. I'm not a beanie baby hater. They're cute. I'm just finding the beanie baby company guilty of misleading the uninformed about what a real collectible is...and it ain't beanie babies as you must be aware of by now. That's all....not knocking your love of beanie babies at all.
 
But when the market heads back up, many of us (definitely including me) are likely to think, "What was the big deal? I'll probably have it all back in a few more months."

Ha

Wheeeeeeee! Sorry, had to say it.:blink: But if the DOW gets close to 10k, I got to believe there will be a pretty big sell off. I'll probably be one of the one's doing the selling.
 
... Just don't think they are "collectibles", because they aren't and never will be.

Things become collectables because lots of people enjoy them and thus... collect them;)
So just what is it in your definition that makes a collectable, a colectable?
 
I make most of my investment decisions by gut instinct . I've been wrong but I've also been right . I've read most of the investing gurus books but my guts wins out . Right now I think this rally is as Finance Dude says " A sucker rally ". A lot of people bailed out of the market during the carnage and they are now sitting with cash making squat and wondering why they do not jump back in . So even with the economy still in the toilet they want to make money .
 
Some still believe in deflation. I tend to side with Buffet when he said in a recent interview that there is no chance of that.

Couldn't agree more NW-B. About a year ago I quipped that long term deflation in America is as likely as spaceships on the White House Lawn. I think I was censured for this.

But it's true- deflation just is not possible with our speculative minded population and institutions, and our very Keynesian admistration and congress. I feel that there is essentially no cost to leaving that particular base unguarded.

Ha
 
I make most of my investment decisions by gut instinct . I've been wrong but I've also been right . I've read most of the investing gurus books but my guts wins out . Right now I think this rally is as Finance Dude says " A sucker rally ". A lot of people bailed out of the market during the carnage and they are now sitting with cash making squat and wondering why they do not jump back in . So even with the economy still in the toilet they want to make money .

Money not being lost in unwise purchases is money being made, even if the current yield on the cash balances is zero.

Ha
 
Just saw Buffet on TV. He says that although he doesn't know where the market is going in the next few days, he'd rather have stocks at Dow 9000 than long-term Treasuries. Why? He mentions inflation again, and reiterates that it is the price to pay to rescue the economy from the housing bubble.

Surely, some will say Buffet would say that because he has loads of stocks. But Berkshire Hathaway always has a huge cash hoard in the tens of billion. Just because the Oracle believes in stocks doesn't mean he doesn't keep some cash handy.
 
Money not being lost in unwise purchases is money being made, even if the current yield on the cash balances is zero.

Ha



Very true . Certainly the people who got out of the market before the crash saved their stash but a lot of them may be thinking about tip toeing back in .Which should hopefully add to this rally for a little while .
 
And here's what Bill Gross, the bond king, has to say for people who hold no stock:

Investors should buy emerging-market currencies to protect themselves against the risk that U.S. policy makers will allow the dollar to slide should they lack the skill to “drain the system of emergency liquidity at the appropriate time,” Pimco said.

No matter whether you are a bear or a bull, diversify is the name of the game. Diversify, baby, diversify...
 
I was thinking about why the market is so unpredictable.

Its moves are caused by investors' buy and sell decisions, and I'll bet that a significant number of those investors are making decisions based on superstition, technical analysis, emotion, and sayings ("As goes January, so goes the year.", "Sell in May and go away," "If Santa Claus Should Fail to Call, Bears May Come to Broad & Wall").

If so, it's no wonder that it's unpredictable.
 
Rational? Irrational? Efficient? Inefficient? :confused:

I no longer care why, only that it goes up and down a lot. A lot more than it should. And it makes me angry. :mad:

AND HOW DO I PROFIT? Just something an ER'ed guy to do for a challenge. :D

Tough quest, and I am still trying. My trade execution, er rebalancing, is far from perfect, but it has not ruined me yet, and even provided me some reasonable gains. I will play this game until I get bored or get too far behind W2R with her MFs, then go psst Wellesley :)
 
Rational? Irrational? Efficient? Inefficient? :confused:

I no longer care why, only that it goes up and down a lot. A lot more than it should. And it makes me angry. :mad:

Me too, or it makes me happy and wanting to utter a little "Wheee!" But since I have an asset allocation I really don't buy and sell other than to rebalance when I dare. I just sit back and watch (happily, this week).

AND HOW DO I PROFIT? Just something an ER'ed guy to do for a challenge. :D

Tough quest, and I am still trying. My trade execution, er rebalancing, is far from perfect, but it has not ruined me yet, and even provided me some reasonable gains. I will play this game until I get bored or get too far behind W2R with her MFs, then go psst Wellesley :)

I love my Wellesley! The dividends just keep coming. Even though they are down a little this last time, it's not enough to worry me much.
 
Money not being lost in unwise purchases is money being made, even if the current yield on the cash balances is zero.

Ha

If that is the case, I have two questions.
1) Is it also the case that: Money not being made in wise purchases is money being lost?
2) Am I making $1000 today if I don't go to the casino and blow $1000 at the blackjack table, and if so, can I claim that as income:ROFLMAO:
 
2) Am I making $1000 today if I don't go to the casino and blow $1000 at the blackjack table, and if so, can I claim that as income:ROFLMAO:

Why? Then you'll have to pay taxes on it, and sometimes, that's not a wise use of dollars <insert your wild and crazy thoughts here>.


-- Rita
 
If that is the case, I have two questions.
1) Is it also the case that: Money not being made in wise purchases is money being lost?
2) Am I making $1000 today if I don't go to the casino and blow $1000 at the blackjack table, and if so, can I claim that as income:ROFLMAO:

Apparently this principle is not for you. ¡Está bien!
 

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