Middle Class Assumptions on ER

[Perryinva]

Small note, just my opinion. Completely free of debt is really only a part of an ER if it is required to make the income work AND the objective is to ER at that level. Plenty that have a decent sized mortgage, say even $3000-3500, (P&I&Taxes&HOA) appear to be living on a high income. Because they start at $36-42k before even eating. But their portfolio might be $2m. They just chose liquidity and higher income over lower expenses and lower income. If $1.2M generates $48k and $24k goes to P&I, then it is no different than someone with the same house paid off ($450k) and $750k. Its just where they are holding their money.

[Oz investor]

regarding the HCOL for some

do they anticipate ( much ) higher inflation ?

do they anticipate rising costs related to dependents , relatives ( or growing children )

and not everyone manages to have a partner for life ( so possible an ex-?? and an estranged family )

do they plan extensive travel ( and holidays ) or maybe moving to a better climate

yes some projected costs of living raise an eyebrow for me , but most people members seem to have a very different lifestyle to me .

i seem to be in the ( protective ) custody of the Fun Police for the next few years , a laptop and internet connection are the big hobbies currently ( for the life i am permitted to live )

if you can go out and enjoy the next 5 ( or more ) years good for you

over in Australia a politician ( a former deputy house leader ) , bitterly complained he couldn't live on $300k a year ( plus perks ) and he is still in parliament and not in any hurry to retire .

so cost of living can vary quite a bit , between families

[daylatedollarshort]

We used to spend a lot more so I know it is pretty easy to do and it is not something I personally want to go back to. In hindsight I wish we had lived more like we do now and retired earlier. We have the same house, upgraded the cars and go out more than we used to so we feel kind of stupid for not paying more attention to our expenses in earlier in life. I don't think in our case we were really getting good value at our higher spending levels. Part of our issue is our area has gotten more expensive over the years so we saved a lot in retirement just by making small adjustments like changing where we shop and get our cars repaired.

[Dtail]

Quote:

Originally Posted by daylatedollarshort We used to spend a lot more so I know it is pretty easy to do and it is not something I personally want to go back to. In hindsight I wish we had lived more like we do now and retired earlier. We have the same house, upgraded the cars and go out more than we used to so we feel kind of stupid for not paying more attention to our expenses in earlier in life. I don't think in our case we were really getting good value at our higher spending levels. Part of our issue is our area has gotten more expensive over the years so we saved a lot in retirement just by making small adjustments like changing where we shop and get our cars repaired.

Once in awhile, I feel the same, but try to look forward. Same with knowledge of investments in addition to spending.
But hey, we cut our expenses quite a bit and moved to a MCOL area.
Plus sometimes one forgets the enjoyment at that time when one was spending.
One crazy but non typical example for us, we spent $1,300 on 2 tickets to Lady Gaga concert and DGF dressed up like L.G.
Had a blast but wouldn't spend over $200 total on a concert now.

[RobbieB]

I'm going the other way. Spending twice what I did while working and loving it -

[athena53]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oz investor regarding the HCOL for some do they anticipate ( much ) higher inflation ? <snip> do they plan extensive travel ( and holidays ) or maybe moving to a better climate yes some projected costs of living raise an eyebrow for me , but most people members seem to have a very different lifestyle to me . <snip> so cost of living can vary quite a bit , between families

Absolutely. Two of my biggest budget items are travel and donations to charity. I'm also putting money in my two granddaughters' college accounts and am nearly finished with 24 monthly payments of $1,000 each to my BIL (late husband's brother) and his wife to help them out.

Peel all of that back and my COL is a lot less. You'll also notice from the many posts here on the subject that medical expenses can be a big % of income for retirees in the US- premiums, high deductibles under the ACA plan, dental, vision and hearing care (the last 3 not covered by traditional Medicare).

[Dtail]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobbieB I'm going the other way. Spending twice what I did while working and loving it -

Hey don't get me wrong Robbie B. Still spending over 100k yearly, but trying to concentrate it more on Entertainment/Travel and eating out to some extent.

[RobbieB]

Good job!

I'm blowing 2 grand for 2 nights at the Mark Hopkins in San Francisco -

Never ever would have done that while I was working.

[indiajust]

I'm in the shallow end with Major Tom and scrabbler1, spending in the low 20's. I wrote a mortgage with half my taxable side and I live off those payments, everything else is in stock/REIT/MLP. The Roth awaits. Pushed off the treadmill at 45 in 08, I have embraced destiny.

[joeprintz]

I agree.. I doubt many retire say at 62 with minimal social security and no pensions with less than a million dollars in investments.- especially if that supports two people with kids- even if they are grown.

[daylatedollarshort]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtail Once in awhile, I feel the same, but try to look forward. Same with knowledge of investments in addition to spending. But hey, we cut our expenses quite a bit and moved to a MCOL area. Plus sometimes one forgets the enjoyment at that time when one was spending. One crazy but non typical example for us, we spent $1,300 on 2 tickets to Lady Gaga concert and DGF dressed up like L.G. Had a blast but wouldn't spend over $200 total on a concert now.

We go to quite a few concerts, but the groups we like usually don't cost a lot any more, like Chicago and REO. Those tickets often go on sale for under $20 each in our area. Our inside joke last year after seeing Styx and REO in concert together was that was the best $12 we ever spent. Mainly we go to see local / regional cover bands at clubs and park concerts so that is usually free, small cover charge or we attend with seat filler tickets.

[Dtail]

Quote:

Originally Posted by daylatedollarshort We go to quite a few concerts, but the groups we like usually don't cost a lot any more, like Chicago and REO. Those tickets often go on sale for under $20 each in our area. Our inside joke last year after seeing Styx and REO in concert together was that was the best $12 we ever spent. Mainly we go to see local / regional cover bands at clubs and park concerts so that is usually free, small cover charge or we attend with seat filler tickets.

I saw Chicago probably about 8 years back. There was a good substitute voice for Peter Cetera. That sometimes can be an issue for older original bands; if their voices haven't held up or the substitutes don't really sound the same.
Up north, I saw a Journey cover band years ago and the lead singer was spot on in looks and hitting the high notes.

[ExFlyBoy5]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtail Up north, I saw a Journey cover band years ago and the lead singer was spot on in looks and hitting the high notes.

Saw the "real" Journey a couple of weeks ago and they have done a good job with Arnel Pineda as he sounds almost EXACTLY like Steve Perry. It's almost scary how much he sounds like him. And I say "new", but Pineda has been with them since 2007...so not so new, I suppose.

[jkern]

Quote:

Originally Posted by joeprintz I agree.. I doubt many retire say at 62 with minimal social security and no pensions with less than a million dollars in investments.- especially if that supports two people with kids- even if they are grown.

Retired at age 51 in 09' with no pension, no SS (not yet anyways), and $900k investment portfolio.

[daylatedollarshort]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtail I saw Chicago probably about 8 years back. There was a good substitute voice for Peter Cetera. That sometimes can be an issue for older original bands; if their voices haven't held up or the substitutes don't really sound the same. Up north, I saw a Journey cover band years ago and the lead singer was spot on in looks and hitting the high notes.

We saw Chicago this summer at an outdoor amphitheater. They sounded a bit different with new members but still amazing. We also have a very good Chicago cover band in our area we saw at a concert in the park last week.