Middle, Upper Middle Class Distinction for Retirees

[Spanky]

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Originally Posted by NW-Bound There's something lower? No Class?

Classless - no need for distinctions of wealth, income, education, culture or social network.

[kcowan]

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Originally Posted by Major Tom I didn't remember that, but Google came to the rescue. Quite an entertaining thread - he lasted all of 8 posts before exiting in a huff. Definitely not the right temperament for this place

Anyone who takes a screen name of SEC Lawyer is too full of themselves to be an active participant here!

[ShokWaveRider]

Major Tom had it right, It was not the intention to analyze and fixate about class. Purely to try to make sense of the quagmire of socio-economic positioning with respect to the retiree and ER and their expenditures in relation to their NW and their own acceptable standard of retirement living. After all we all had an idea of what we needed to ER, then we did it, and now years later have some good insight.

My original thoughts still hold. I will repeat unless you have forgotten.

From what I have managed to find from checking Google etc. is that those aged 55-64 with a net worth of between $843k and $2.8m put one in that category. I am asking here as most people in this group, I would think (Assumption) fall somewhere in that group or above. Let us also assume that include a paid off residence.


To Clarify a little, this is as I understand a general designation for working stiffs, as I cannot find any data specific to a retiree, which for most have no direct working earned income. Because "most" of our income is directly related to our NW, I think it is a good indicator. Of course those who have rental income etc. are a little different as in my books they are still working. (Tongue in cheek LOL) I would be worried about the properties and renters etc. That to me is too much like work.

Top 10% have between $973k - $1.2k
Top 5% have between $2m - $2.7m

A lot of you are REALLY hung up on the word "class". Remember we all just got the BIGGEST "Middle Class" Tax cut ever. Not my words, so please do not blame the messenger. The way some of you are harping on about it, smells of insecurity..... (DOH! Just kidding ) Really I am kidding. If one is in this forum, they are hardly insecure. But it sure sound like it when we keep on about it. We can change it to "Wealth Percentile" if you like. Not that the banter is not entertaining.

[Gumby]

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Originally Posted by Major Tom I'm quite sure that by now, ShokWaveRider fully regrets even mentioning the subject of class, social or economic, because we have taken the subject and run with it. All this despite the fact that it was not intended to be the main topic of discussion! Nevertheless, I will continue barking up the wrong tree by saying that all this talk of class makes my head hurt a bit, though nowhere near as much as attempting to unravel the issue of social class in the UK, which is a veritable head-scratcher. From the Wikipedia article on the subject, "There are many inconsistencies and subtleties that many believe are far more important to the British system than a person's assets. For example, many believe that referring to one's self as "classy" or even using the word "class" in such a context is indicative of a lower class." The first rule of Fight Club is: you do not talk about Fight Club. The second rule of Fight Club is: you DO NOT talk about Fight Club! Social class in the United Kingdom

My mother, a born and bred English prole, made a very sharp distinction between a "Toff" and a "Proper Gentleman", and made me promise to be the latter should I ever come into money.

[MichaelB]

Monty Python explains class

Edit to change link, Alan's updated version is much better. I'll post instead another favorite Python clip -
Upper Class Twit of the Year

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MqObJtGrKaA

[ShokWaveRider]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gumby My mother, a born and bred English prole, made a very sharp distinction between a "Toff" and a "Proper Gentleman", and made me promise to be the latter should I ever come into money.

Mine too. She thought anyone who di not speak "The Queens English" was lower "C$#@@" . Cockney etc. As per the UK Explanation link above. She sent me to "Public School" until I went to College in England, so what does that make me? PS. "Public School in the UK is like Private Schools in the USA.

[Pilot2013]

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Originally Posted by Red Badger A large study conducted in the 40's determined that soldiers who would jump off the 34' tower would jump from any height (there are occasional "passengers" who refuse to exit the bird, but it's rare).

Interesting study. As a pilot, I have always found that once I get above a certain height (500 ft?) I no long have a fear of height. Climbing to the top of a 24 ft extension ladder this weekend to try and fix a loose piece of siding, however, was terrifying.

[karen1972]

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Originally Posted by Winemaker https://lifehacker.com/the-perfect-s...ate-1605278164 I think this link from 2014 pretty much says it all, but it will need 4 years of inflation adjustment. Here in Grapetown in 2014, I needed $76,200 per household a year to be happy. That should take care of all needs except for material things. I wonder if wine is considered material? Upper Middle Affluent? Classy even? Beverage of lumpen slums of cyberspace champions?

I assume this is based on the Berkeley study that said at $70K the amount of "happiness" one gets from more money greatly diminishes. So I've always seen that as the "cut off" of middle and upper middle... you can be perfectly happy with less, you have all the things you need, but likely have to say no to things you'd like. In HCOL cities, I'd just use a COL calculator to adjust it accordingly.

Now to generate that type of income in early retirement, you are likely talking $2M+ unless you have pensions, rental income, etc. To me that seems to be the numbers I hear most people talk about (at least those without pensions), they dream of having $1M+, so $2M+ for a couple. You're not the lifestyles of the rich and famous but you will never struggle either.

For me I have specific requirements for places I live, they need to have sidewalks, people need to be using those sidewalks, I need to see people caring for their own lawns, the cars need to be mid-range vehicles, etc.. that's what I'm comfortable with... I like to know my neighbors and be in a walking friendly area. I haven't seen any upper-middle-class neighborhoods that fit that. It makes me feel sad when I drive around and see pristine places where you never see anyone except the hired gardeners, no sidewalks, etc.. it just seems so isolated... its not my style at all.

[NW-Bound]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spanky Classless - no need for distinctions of wealth, income, education, culture or social network.

I was teasing my friend Nemo. Like one would say "he has no class".

But as Karen pointed out in the above post, one's socioeconomic status always comes into play in our lives, even if you do not consciously think about it. You do not look down on people who are stuck at a lower rung in society, but you still want to be in a neighborhood that you feel safe. And you are more comfortable socializing with people whose situation is more like yours. You have more things in common to talk about.

The US is not truly classless, but I like it much better than other societies. Reading about the caste system in India makes me cringe.

[Big_Hitter]

all i know is that i'm middle class

[Nemo2]

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Originally Posted by NW-Bound I was teasing my friend Nemo. Like one would say "he has no class".

Oh, I'm sure that way more than one person would say that!

[MichaelB]

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Originally Posted by NW-Bound I was teasing my friend Nemo. Like one would say "he has no class".

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Originally Posted by Nemo2 Oh, I'm sure that way more than one person would say that!

I will admit that DW has said that to me on more than one occasion.

[Alan]

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Originally Posted by MichaelB Monty Python explains class

...and here is the 21st century updated version...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JSahEDRjvw

[MichaelB]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan ...and here is the 21st century updated version...

First time seeing that clip for me, but it is much better. Thanks!

[Bestwifeever]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan ...and here is the 21st century updated version... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JSahEDRjvw

So funny.

We must have some class because we are adding Britbox to our Amazon Prime channels.

[Alan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bestwifeever So funny. We must have some class because we are adding Britbox to our Amazon Prime channels.

I've heard good things about Britbox, which didn't exist before we'd moved back in 2016

[RunningBum]

ShokWave, I still have absolutely no idea of the purpose of your thread.

From the title and first post, it looked like you want to classify people, for some reason. But you are saying others are getting hung up on your use of class, even though that's all you talked about in that post.

Then you said it was to help with a housing decision. I'll repeat for a third time that it makes no sense to obfuscate that decision by trying to put yourself into a category. You haven't explained why you can't just make it a decision based on your finances and desires.

Now in your post this morning you still want to label and/or categorize people. I'm not hung up on the word "class", I'm hung up on the whole concept that you are wanting to put people in buckets. Why? Why is this important?

[Cayman]

I looked at wealth percentiles in the past using census.gov data and found it helpful. It provided perspective on my financial situation relative to other households in the US so that I could measure whether I was moving ahead with wealth accumulation. Shokwave, I think wealth percentiles are helpful for that purpose.

Like others here, I dislike using hierarchical social class categories for the reasons so many of you have stated already --- who needs self elevation?

[Lawrence of Suburbia]

I see myself as occupying a fairly singular "class", at least compared to most of you. Once I quit my job, I'll be in the category of (hopefully) 'comfortable poverty'. This is because I'll not really be "early retired" (unless you allow one year before S.S. 'full retirement'), and my net worth is a fraction of most of yours'. But my wants are pretty insignificant now, so I'd say my retirement income will be spent on what is only necessary. Anything extra (fancy meals out, new musical gear, trips out of town, etc.) I will have to earn with part-time casual work.

[Floridatennisplayer]

Again, a meaningless exercise with no point. Just so someone can say I am higher class than you. Jr. High stuff.