Millionaires?

Razor · 07-05-2008, 11:39 AM

Just wondering how many millionaires are on this forum.
A yes or no will suffice unless you want to ellaborate.
I am talking about net worth.
Right now I am about 60k short of having a net worth of a million bucks. I hope I make it before I retire but the market is not cooperating.

bentley · 07-05-2008, 11:44 AM

Currently at 1.37mm +/-. Was north of 1.5mm three weeks ago.

Am tempted to bail out, and move to cd's and treasuries until the dust settles, but dang it, I would sure hate to miss the turnaround....whenever that is going to be. If anyone knows, please inform the rest of us....lol

ladelfina · 07-05-2008, 11:44 AM

Yes. But Razor, why don't you make a simple poll with 2 options? (easier to tally). If people want to write more they will.

When is your planned retirement? Will you have a pension or is the $1mm it?

bentley · 07-05-2008, 11:46 AM

The actual number becomes a lot more relevant when an age, and a retirement age is included. Otherwise, it's just noise.

**Martha** · 07-05-2008, 11:59 AM

Razor, I added a poll. Some might like being anonymous.

Razor · 07-05-2008, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ladelfina

Yes. But Razor, why don't you make a simple poll with 2 options? (easier to tally). If people want to write more they will.

When is your planned retirement? Will you have a pension or is the $1mm it?

I didn't know how, but someone did it for me.
I can take early retirement in Oct and my pension will just about cover our health insurance. My wife plans to keep working and I plan on finding a part time job I enjoy doing.

Razor · 07-05-2008, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bentley

The actual number becomes a lot more relevant when an age, and a retirement age is included. Otherwise, it's just noise.

There is no relevance. I was just curious to how many millionaires are on this retirement forum.

CaseInPoint · 07-05-2008, 12:21 PM

There's a huge difference between having a net worth of $1M (which includes one's home value), vs. having investable assets of $1M, excluding one's home.

As an interesting exercise, you might also want to research how much money one would have to have today to be at the same level of what was traditionally known as being a "millionaire," 20 or 30 years ago.

2B · 07-05-2008, 12:23 PM

We're back to the old question of how to "value" pensions. I have a $15K/yr pension that has no COLA or medical benefits. Also, I have many years to wait for SS. In my situation there's no way I can consider myself FI without $1MM+. Someone my same age with a COLA'd pension of 85+% of their prior salary and lifetime heath benefits doesn't need a dime in savings. I would consider them to be "richer" than me.

2B · 07-05-2008, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaseInPoint

There's a huge difference between having a net worth of $1M (which includes one's home value), vs. having investable assets of $1M, excluding one's home.

As an interesting exercise, you might also want to research how much money one would have to have today to be at the same level of what was traditionally known as being a "millionaire," 20 or 30 years ago.

Back at the turn of the 19th century, a "gentleman" was defined as someone that had 10,000 pounds (British). They could by gov't bonds and live a comfortable London life full of leisure activities with just the interest. We would probably call these people their equivalent of being "millionaires."

Two things have happened over the last two decades. One is obvious -- inflation. The absolute value of $1MM adjusted for about 4% (more or less) inflation since 1978 is about $3.25MM. However, interest rates on US bonds are about half as much now so you'd need $6-7MM to generate the same inflation adjusted income. To be able to really be "well off," let's say you need $10MM today.

Razor · 07-05-2008, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaseInPoint

There's a huge difference between having a net worth of $1M (which includes one's home value), vs. having investable assets of $1M, excluding one's home.

As an interesting exercise, you might also want to research how much money one would have to have today to be at the same level of what was traditionally known as being a "millionaire," 20 or 30 years ago.

Just wondering how many millionaires we had here, nothing more. The definition of a millionaire is sombody with a net worth over $1 million.
Keeping it simple.

calmloki · 07-05-2008, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2B

Back at the turn of the 19th century, a "gentleman" was defined as someone that had 10,000 pounds (British). They could by gov't bonds and live a comfortable London life full of leisure activities with just the interest. We would probably call these people their equivalent of being "millionaires."

Two things have happened over the last two decades. One is obvious -- inflation. The absolute value of $1MM adjusted for about 4% (more or less) inflation since 1978 is about $3.25MM. However, interest rates on US bonds are about half as much now so you'd need $6-7MM to generate the same inflation adjusted income. To be able to really be "well off," let's say you need $10MM today.

Dang, let's not say that. Too depressing.

bentley · 07-05-2008, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Razor

The definition of a millionaire is sombody with a net worth over $1 million.

Thanks so much for that clarification. We've been wondering about that for a long time now.

CaseInPoint · 07-05-2008, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2B

To be able to really be "well off," let's say you need $10MM today.

Yes, that's right.

In my own research, I've found that most estimates say $11M.

These days, there's a (somewhat) new concept of the "Middle Class Millionaire," which goes to show how being a millionaire just ain't what it used to be...

**Want2retire** · 07-05-2008, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ladelfina

Yes. But Razor, why don't you make a simple poll with 2 options? (easier to tally). If people want to write more they will.

When is your planned retirement? Will you have a pension or is the $1mm it?

Yes.

My planned retirement will be 490 days from today (about 16 months). I am waiting until I qualify for lifetime medical. It isn't easy to wait, but it is probably prudent to do so.

Yes, I will have a small pension. Also, I will be nearly 62, and plan to claim SS at 66. I plan to live an average lifestyle in a part of the country where the cost of living is relatively low.

CaseInPoint · 07-05-2008, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Razor

Keeping it simple.

Yes, I understand. You're just about at the $1M level, and that's a great achievement in and of itself. Something to celebrate and enjoy to the max.

And the best part is that now you'll find that it's true that the first million is the hardest to make. It really does get quicker and easier.

Razor · 07-05-2008, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bentley

Thanks so much for that clarification. We've been wondering about that for a long time now.

Some people didn't seem to understand. They didn't want to include their home or a million ain't what it used to be etc.. Boy, you guys make things a lot more complicated than they are.

Razor · 07-05-2008, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaseInPoint

Yes, I understand. You're just about at the $1M level, and that's a great achievement in and of itself. Something to celebrate and enjoy to the max.

And the best part is that now you'll find that it's true that the first million is the hardest to make. It really does get quicker and easier.

Thanks. I am glad someone understands. 25 years ago my net worth was about $5,000.

**Marquette** · 07-05-2008, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Razor

Boy, you guys make things a lot more complicated than they are.

To be honest, that is the first time that I've seen this type of behavior on these boards and I am shocked. Shocked I tell you.

rogersteciak · 07-05-2008, 01:49 PM

While net asset valuations are interesting, the practical consideration (in my opinion) is financial freedom. Assets by themselves are less useful than the cash income they produce that you can use to pay living expenses.

When your investment income exceeds your living expenses (including taxes) by your desired margin of safety, you are financially free and have the option of not working for a living (no matter what your age).

Investment income includes the 4% SWR of a Work Less, Live More portfolio, dividends, rents, profits, pensions, social security, annuities, and whatever else you might make on a regular basis no matter whether you are awake or asleep. This investment income, of course, must also stay ahead of inflation.

For those who are not financially free yet, it's a good idea to figure out your Financial Freedom Day and strive to make it happen. LBYM (including paying off debt) takes care of the living expenses side of the equation. Then you can focus on the income side of the equation.

Cashflow spreadsheets are your friend here because they give you visibility into your financial future. You can make financial changes now and see what the impacts are years in the future.

View Poll Results: Is your net worth a million US dollars or over?
yes	195	74.14%
no	68	25.86%
Voters: 263. You may not vote on this poll

07-05-2008, 11:39 AM	#1
Razor Recycles dryer sheets Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 419	Millionaires? Just wondering how many millionaires are on this forum. A yes or no will suffice unless you want to ellaborate. I am talking about net worth. Right now I am about 60k short of having a net worth of a million bucks. I hope I make it before I retire but the market is not cooperating.

07-05-2008, 11:59 AM	#5
Martha Moderator Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: minnesota Posts: 9,327	Razor, I added a poll. Some might like being anonymous. __________________ . Do not rely on the information provided--my posts are not to be taken as legal advice. Needless to say you must consult with your legal representative. I am not responsible for errors. If I offended you with cya I apologize. If I did not, I tried.

07-05-2008, 12:23 PM	#9
2B Thinks s/he gets paid by the post Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Houston Posts: 2,129	We're back to the old question of how to "value" pensions. I have a $15K/yr pension that has no COLA or medical benefits. Also, I have many years to wait for SS. In my situation there's no way I can consider myself FI without $1MM+. Someone my same age with a COLA'd pension of 85+% of their prior salary and lifetime heath benefits doesn't need a dime in savings. I would consider them to be "richer" than me. __________________ The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane -- Marcus Aurelius

07-05-2008, 01:49 PM	#20
rogersteciak Recycles dryer sheets Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 144	Financial freedom more important that net asset valuation While net asset valuations are interesting, the practical consideration (in my opinion) is financial freedom. Assets by themselves are less useful than the cash income they produce that you can use to pay living expenses. When your investment income exceeds your living expenses (including taxes) by your desired margin of safety, you are financially free and have the option of not working for a living (no matter what your age). Investment income includes the 4% SWR of a Work Less, Live More portfolio, dividends, rents, profits, pensions, social security, annuities, and whatever else you might make on a regular basis no matter whether you are awake or asleep. This investment income, of course, must also stay ahead of inflation. For those who are not financially free yet, it's a good idea to figure out your Financial Freedom Day and strive to make it happen. LBYM (including paying off debt) takes care of the living expenses side of the equation. Then you can focus on the income side of the equation. Cashflow spreadsheets are your friend here because they give you visibility into your financial future. You can make financial changes now and see what the impacts are years in the future.

07-05-2008, 11:44 AM	#2
bentley Dryer sheet aficionado Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Lake Charles Posts: 34	Currently at 1.37mm +/-. Was north of 1.5mm three weeks ago. Am tempted to bail out, and move to cd's and treasuries until the dust settles, but dang it, I would sure hate to miss the turnaround....whenever that is going to be. If anyone knows, please inform the rest of us....lol

07-05-2008, 11:44 AM	#3
ladelfina Thinks s/he gets paid by the post Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 2,560	Yes. But Razor, why don't you make a simple poll with 2 options? (easier to tally). If people want to write more they will. When is your planned retirement? Will you have a pension or is the $1mm it?

07-05-2008, 11:46 AM	#4
bentley Dryer sheet aficionado Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Lake Charles Posts: 34	The actual number becomes a lot more relevant when an age, and a retirement age is included. Otherwise, it's just noise.

07-05-2008, 12:21 PM	#8
CaseInPoint Recycles dryer sheets Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 107	There's a huge difference between having a net worth of $1M (which includes one's home value), vs. having investable assets of $1M, excluding one's home. As an interesting exercise, you might also want to research how much money one would have to have today to be at the same level of what was traditionally known as being a "millionaire," 20 or 30 years ago.