MMND: Financially Independent?

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Quote:

Originally Posted by twaddle So, is it her blog? We've had people with blogs here before. Even Real Authors(TM) and people with pretty specific agendae. But we still treated them with respect.

Seems to me the difference is evident. As are the efforts of people whose primary purpose is to create dissension.

[quietman]

I see you want to make peace and perhaps revise a bit of the history of what happened here. Certainly your request that the moderators remove any mention of you or links to your blog is NOT motivated by your revelation that this community in not part of your target market, but more likely a result of the hugely unflattering trail you left behind here. Let's not pretend otherwise.

Still, if you want to join the community and discuss the topics of interest you would be welcome. Please check your arrogant attitude and know it all style and you will be more likely to receive cooperative responses. I'm happy you have found (unconventional) success for yourself, but like many here am resistant to proselytizing message that there is any ONE right way. A little humility is a strong asset on this forum. You should see many examples of (very) successful folks introducing themselves and receiving positive receptions. Try it. We are at heart a very friendly bunch.

[GoodSense]

I read her blog and enjoyed it. It's a good reminder of LBYM. I especially liked "8 Questions to Ask Yourself Before You Buy." For the long-term frugalists, it's nothing new. But for those who are still resisting the urge to buy things (which is most of the American public and maybe relatively few of the forum members), it's helpful. I guess it all depends on which leg of the FIRE journey you're on.

I don't know enough about investment to know the merit of each method. Since I don't have a lot of free time, I'm going the low-cost, index funds route. No matter what method, or whether she has reached FI as conventionally defined, she has accomplished a lot at her young age.

[twaddle]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cute fuzzy bunny Seems to me the difference is evident. As are the efforts of people whose primary purpose is to create dissension.

You and I have had plenty of disagreements over the years. But I've got to tell you that I'm impressed by your ability to modify your position in response to facts and logic. Sometimes.

Here's my simple logic on this one: MMND is a human being. If you forget this simple fact, here are some pictures of her to remind you:

Millionaire Mommy Next Door: Parenting With Purpose: This I Believe...

Now, I'm not a fan of all human beings. There are *many* whom I don't like. I can usually ignore the ones I don't like. If that doesn't work, I might even call the cops.

We have both of those mechanisms here. Ignore them or click on that little to call the cops.

Now those mechanisms don't always work. For example, maybe somebody is trying to sell you something, and they just won't leave you alone. They're constantly in your face. In that case, kick some butt.

As far as I can remember, we've only had one case in the history of this site that required some butt kicking. This wasn't one of them.

[Texas Proud]

Twaddle...

It seems that you are reading and revising history yourself... and this is not to defend CFB as I know he can do it better than I can....

She introduced herself and promoted her blog.... against the rules...

She talked about how she was writing a book... not in and of itself a bad thing, but she was still 'new'...

She gave (IMO), false information on how she became a millionaire.... made it look like she did it from a minimum wage job... we then find out that her husband was making (again memory) $175K or so... I do not know how much she contributed to his company or their income... maybe a lot, maybe none... but that is NOT even close to minimum wages... AND, on that subject... I bet almost everybody on this site came from a 'minimum' wage job.... I know I had one back when....

She was hyping an investment style that is not backed by a good study... I read either hers or someones description.... something like 'you can bet on a horse race and change horses during the race'.. like you were always going forward (without losses) or could pick the winner just before you crossed the finish line... well, investing is not a horse race where there is a winner and you take your ticket to pick up your winnings... you are still running!!! So... to me it was like she was 'selling' this way of investing (my opinion)....

She was asked a number of times to put down if she had a loss since October or even this year... nothing... again, when selling an investment you don't want to talk about losses....

I also said that I would hold my opinion of her since she asked and start to read her posts in other threads and see if she added anything to the discussions... guess what... I have never see ONE... not ONE that she had not started OR is about her...

And she was very dismissive of the group very early on... a tirade if you will...

SO, I had an opinion of her very early on.... and said I would take another look with time.... and guess what.. my first impression is still what I am left with as there has been nothing written to change it.... could I be wrong... of course... but as I said, nothing has been posted at any time that would cause me to change it....


NOW, CFB will probably write 20 words and say this even better than my long post.... but hey..... that is him



PS... ever her post in this thread has nothing in it that would make me change my mind... but I am glad to see she is giving the 'profits' to charity..

[cute fuzzy bunny]

20 words?

How about "I really dont/didnt care"?

I was hardly paying attention to be honest, except for the part where on the slightest questioning she lit her own head on fire and complained that we were all just picking on her because we couldnt deal with a successful woman. :

The behavior after that was predictable and shallow, as was the "blog".

Just the type of stuff you expect to see for 3 minutes on Dr. Oprahs View that makes you feel inspired for 5 minutes and then forget about.

The only stupid part is all the twaddling about what a bunch of big fat meanies we are. More of the same lighting the edges of stuff on fire to see what happens.

I'm done with this "debate"... :

[twaddle]

TP, the mods deleted several of the more colorful posts in her introductory thread. So, history has been revised.

I'm not interested in defending her message or her style. I think what you're telling me is that you didn't like her message or her style, so you felt it was your duty to personally attack her.

I'm just saying that I don't agree with your tactics.

There are criminals out there. There are people who are intentionally trying to deceive and who are trying to profit based on that deception.

I'm all for calling the cops when we catch a criminal. As far as I can tell, no crime was committed here.

FWIW, I thought she had some interesting fodder for discussion, especially the bit about momentum investing on her blog. But there was no way we were going to have a reasonable discussion about any of her ideas given the way she was greeted and the reaction to her "vibe."

[TickTock]

Quote:

Originally Posted by twaddle I'm curious about what motivates you folks. You obviously feel justified in attacking this person. Why?

I don't consider analyzing someone's claims an attack. Show me where the analysis is wrong. Or, MMND can show me where it's wrong. Or, anyone else can show me where it's wrong.

Quote:

Originally Posted by twaddle TickTock has thoroughly "debunked" her by telling us that she's not rich enough to be considered financially independent.

She claims to be financially independent. By her own writings, I do the math and conclude that she is not, by the 4% SWR yardstick. I'll also note that I made certain assumptions in that analysis, which I tried to identify.

This does not debunk MMND. It debunks (unless the analysis is shown to be wrong) her claim of being FI. No more, no less.

Quote:

Originally Posted by twaddle Is that the new standard that posters here are to be held to? In that case, tell us your net worth and expenses and let's see if you're fit to post here.

I hope not, as I wouldn't be allowed in under that standard. However, I don't claim to be FI, and that's an important distinction.

[twaddle]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TickTock ... by the 4% SWR yardstick.

Gotcha. So she chose the phrase, but you chose the yardstick, and you found that her phrase wasn't supported by your yardstick and that warranted a new thread.

I was just curious.

[Gumby]

Gentlemen:

Are we not beating a supine equine here?

[cute fuzzy bunny]

.

[bbbamI]

God bless.

[TickTock]

Quote:

Originally Posted by twaddle Gotcha. So she chose the phrase, but you chose the yardstick, and you found that her phrase wasn't supported by your yardstick and that warranted a new thread.

Yes, her phrase, my yardstick... but it isn't just *my* yardstick, is it? It's a generally accepted yardstick, not one pulled randomly out of the air. Yes, her phrase doesn't support 'my' yardstick. Yes, I did feel it warranted a new thread - look at how the relevant information was scattered, not easily accessible and correlated. I went through the excersize, and shared the results. Go back to my original post; my conclusion is clearly stated for "traditional withdrawal guidelines" and I stand by that. Heck, with a 20% SWR, I'm FI now with room to spare! But not by 4%.

Quote:

Originally Posted by twaddle I was just curious.

No problem.

[TickTock]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gumby Gentlemen: Are we not beating a supine equine here?

I don't think I am.

I think that I took scattered information, brought it together, and analyzed it.

I see discussion here on various folks' opinions: Warren Buffett, John Bogle, William Bernstein, Suze Orzman, Scott Burns, Ray Lucia...

Why not MMND?

[maddythebeagle]

Why would anybody post this thread attacking someone that hasnt posted in over a month....I think that I am going to wait 30 days and post a new thread on how I think OP should get a f'ing life....

God Bless this Forum

[SteveR]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MillionaireMommyNextDoor ...In fact, I wrote to the moderators of this forum and requested that they delete every mention of me and my blog from the archives (the links you folks have provided - not me). However, the moderators chose to refuse my request.... With wishes for peace, love and happiness for all of you, Jen

Jen,
It is the policy of the board to not delete individual information or messages on a board-wise basis. This board is a public forum and information posted here is for public view. Posters should be aware that anything they post in a public forum is viewable by anyone for a very long time. The board policy of not deleting the contents of threads is long standing and firm. Once a thread is formed removing the contents of that thread makes it impossible to understand or follow. Deletion of information within member posts is done only when the information is clearly outside of the Community's rules.

You or anyone else is welcome to post on this board as long as it is done within the Community Rules linked on each forum page. The Retire Early forum is a unique place among its' peers and one of the things that makes it so is the open and sometimes lively discussion of a wide range of topics. The board is composed of a very diverse group of individuals who share a similar mindset...early retirement and financial independence. A fair number of these folks have fought and scratched their way to being FI and are very proud of what they have done, much like yourself. With that kind of experience comes a natural skepticism about folks that seem to have gotten there "the easy way." Sometimes this is expressed as contempt or as a negative bias towards new posters who appear to be cheer-leading their approach to getting to FI. This does not make it right...it is just what it is sometimes.

The moderators of this forum are all volunteers (or draftees) who provide their time and energy to keep the board within the rules so everyone can enjoy the board without excessive negative discussions that only inflame and escalate to verbal battles with no possible winners. Some folks just like to spar with "new" folks with new ideas. The forum moderators try to give the board a lot of rope before we step in and referee. We want everyone to enjoy the forum and we all understand that there will be strong feelings at times. It is our job to keep the messages within the Community Rules; not to baby sit every discussion.

The forum has a lot of vintage members who have very strong opinions at times. Many of these individuals also have a tremendous amount of experience and knowledge they share on this board. Sometimes the moderators will cut these folks a bit more slack than a new member who has yet to validate themselves as genuine to the other board members. Yes, this is not completely fair...but nobody promised you a rose garden....only a chance to learn and share your opinions, experience and knowledge on a great many topics. If you are easily offended by being challenged then perhaps taking a less vocal approach to some topics would seem to be in order.

Please feel free to continue to post as you see fit. This board is open to anyone who abides by the Community Rules. I hope you decide to stick around and give the forum a fair shake while you read and learn what is here for the looking. It is indeed a gold mine of information from some of the most savvy folks in the FIRE community.

Good luck.

[TickTock]

Quote:

Originally Posted by maddythebeagle Why would anybody post this thread attacking someone that hasnt posted in over a month....

I posted the thread.

And once again, I repeat that I am NOT attacking a person; I am analyzing claims that have been made by a person.

Or are claims by a poster off-limits?

Quote:

Originally Posted by maddythebeagle I think that I am going to wait 30 days and post a new thread on how I think OP should get a f'ing life....

Fair enough. Perhaps I should get a life. Or maybe I have one. Or maybe I choose to spend some time on something you don't consider worthwhile. :shrug:

[sets watch]

On April 2nd, I will scan the boards for your post suggesting that I get a life...

[/watch]

[TickTock]

I note now that MMND has responded in this thread, and rather than post an actual rebuttal to my analysis, she has declared that we are bullies and that she has no interest in participating in this kind of environment.

Then she quotes some pretty poetry and wishes us peace, love, and happiness.

If anyone wants to demonstrate where my analysis is wrong, I'm listening...

[twaddle]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TickTock I see discussion here on various folks' opinions: Warren Buffett, John Bogle, William Bernstein, Suze Orzman, Scott Burns, Ray Lucia... Why not MMND?

That's why I asked about motivation. You're basically saying that you view her as a public figure. Somebody who influences the decisions of others.

If that's the case, then I think it's valid to talk about her behind her back. Personally, I tend to view her as just another poster with a blog.

So, you basically want to discredit her because you don't agree with her message. You find her message dangerous. Is that it?

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Still thwapping the horse, are we?

I believe she presented herself as a public figure, with television appearances and a trademarked name, didnt she?

And I believe that any claims she made are fair game for analysis.

But you're right. Subversive people are a little dangerous.