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Old 03-27-2012, 09:01 AM   #41
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"Teach a man to fish...
and he will sit on a boat all day drinking beer".
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Old 03-27-2012, 09:28 AM   #42
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Here is my current money dilemma and it's not a fun situation to be in because it involves my deceased uncle's 2 sons in their 30's and their current long term unemployment. They live in a medium size city in Oklahoma and are relatives that I've only seen maybe 3-4 times, ever. But did visit a couple of years back because my uncle was gravely ill.
No, don't even try to help them out. How hard do they work? If smoking and drinking heavily, it is easy to come up with a hypothesis. Further, my guess is that if you help them out now, they will come back regularly for a handout.

I guess I might be a witch, but that would definitely be my take on it.
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Old 03-27-2012, 10:01 AM   #43
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No, don't even try to help them out. How hard do they work? If smoking and drinking heavily, it is easy to come up with a hypothesis. Further, my guess is that if you help them out now, they will come back regularly for a handout.

I guess I might be a witch, but that would definitely be my take on it.
I agree. You don't know them well, which means they don't know you well. How hard is it to say you've thought about it and would love to help, but you've evaluated your savings and in this economy you are just not in a position to help by sending money.

Not only will you never get repaid, they will be back in six months for more.
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Old 03-27-2012, 10:07 AM   #44
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When I worked in the hospital the techs and unit secretaries were often selling cookies and candy as fund raising for their kids school and other activities. I ALWAYS bought five boxes and opened and shared a couple of them in the break room. Other nurses questioned me on this pracice. I reminded them that the techs and secretaries made a lot less than we did and being generous was often paid back in smooth working relationships many times over. Nursing is a high stress job. If you have everyone working as a team and watching out for each other it can be a lot less stressful. As important as being generous with the money is the practice of being generous with praise. When someone working with you does a good job telling them so will go a long way in promoting a good working relationship. It seems that most everyone knows this but very few practice it. Many times after praising someone for good work they told me I was the only person who ever said anything nice about their work. People who say "nobody thanks me for my work, why should I thank someone" totally miss the point and contribute to their own unhappiness.
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Old 03-27-2012, 10:29 AM   #45
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Wow, this thread is a nice emotional cleansing for me.

In early career, I was the dupe of many a "everybody toss in a $20" when I knew my share was closer to $10.

And after years of that, I became the guy who said; "mine was a $6 entree and a $2 beer, here's a $10". Scowls from the alpha-wannabee (profiteer) and chuckles from me. Usually others road my wave to also avoid the supplement to profiteer person.
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Old 03-27-2012, 11:55 AM   #46
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Wow, this thread is a nice emotional cleansing for me.

In early career, I was the dupe of many a "everybody toss in a $20" when I knew my share was closer to $10.

And after years of that, I became the guy who said; "mine was a $6 entree and a $2 beer, here's a $10". Scowls from the alpha-wannabee (profiteer) and chuckles from me. Usually others road my wave to also avoid the supplement to profiteer person.

Yes, you have to stand your ground at times.... for a one off, I have decided that it is not worth the hassle....

But, I worked for a boss who loved to go with everybody in the group and split the bill... I objected within the first week.... I said "I did not get a tea or coke and do not want one, why should I pay for it"... well, that implimented a 'tea tax' on people... there were a few who started to drink water... then when we went to a place with big difference in prices on their plates, someone said 'I only bought the $6 item'... so, we started charging an extra for buying the big cost items... it was amazing to see that the overall bill came down over time.... people were not trying to max out their purchase so they would feel like they were getting their money's worth... now they were paying what they owed... at times we even got more money than needed which went to the birthday fund...
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Old 03-28-2012, 09:24 AM   #47
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We would sometimes do a separate bill for liquor. That helped the big spenders focus on where all their money was going. Since it was most often lunch, the difference in entrees was minor.
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Old 03-28-2012, 09:49 AM   #48
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What I have often seen in these "count every penny, I had less than you" split the bill at the table discussions is that the waiter or waitress often gets stiffed.
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Old 03-28-2012, 10:42 AM   #49
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What I have often seen in these "count every penny, I had less than you" split the bill at the table discussions is that the waiter or waitress often gets stiffed.
All part of Bistromathics. Because restaurants are familiar with that particular area of the mathematics/physics continuum, they invented the automatic gratuity for groups of 6 or more.
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Old 03-28-2012, 11:11 AM   #50
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Nick, that is hilarious! Thanks for sharing!
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Old 03-28-2012, 01:01 PM   #51
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Nick, that is hilarious! Thanks for sharing!
+1
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Old 03-28-2012, 02:18 PM   #52
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+1 You handled these beautifully IMO.

Retirement celebrations at my work were traditionally at restaurants. So, in addition to contributing to the retirement gift, we had to pay for our meal. This was about $30 on average, the same fee for everyone and paid in advance with no options for a lower priced meal. This was way more than I ever paid for any meals when I was in the accumulation phase. So, I didn't go. I would approach the retiree individually and congratulate him/her that way. It was awkward and I felt bad, but spending that much on lunch was just not consistent with my LBYM efforts at the time.

When I retired, I started what I hope will become a new LBYM-friendly workplace tradition. I had my party well after lunchtime, in a conference room at work with non-mandatory potluck snacks. People could come and wish me well, and if they were busy they could grab a plateful of snack food and vanish to do their work. The conference room was filled, the food was great, and it went very well, all in all.
Thank you, and it seems you have a good feel for how to do these things also....good idea!

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Here's one: I was living overseas. My sister decided to get married back in the US. If I went back for the wedding, I would not be able to qualify for the foreign income exclusion and would have had to pay a boatload of taxes. Plus I didn't have the money for the round trip airfare either. My parents offered to pay for the airfare, but they would not pay for my taxes. I did not go to the wedding.

If I invite my siblings out to a fancy brunch, then I pay. That's not a problem for me. I am surprised the OP's siblings did not pay for his meal. Or maybe there was some pride involved?
On the wedding, that's a tough one. I supposed there would be many factors involved. Our wedding was mostly local people, so we didn't have that issue. The bridesmaids dresses, however, were another story. We purposefully planned for them to be inexpensive, as some of the bridesmaids had modest incomes...I think they were about $40 back in 1996.

As for the pride comment...that was not the issue. I think it was just that this was a new situation for them....and I was new out of college at my job...they had no idea how much I made etc. They got the message after a few times.

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How the world has changed. I worked in New York City for the last 25 years of my career. I never saw anyone retire in any company I worked at. The last place I worked at had 500 employees or so and was a ten-year old company. I was the only person ever to retire from there. When i told people I was retiring they kept asking me where I was going to work next.
that's really funny. I'm sure I'll get asked that too in the next 20 months.
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Old 03-28-2012, 02:30 PM   #53
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I agree with Sarah.
Thank you obgyn

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So here is a common work situation that comes up fairly regularly where I work. People with kids who are doing fundraising for their kids' schools or activities will bring in something they are selling to aid the fundraising, and ask co-workers to 'order' whatever they are selling to support them (e.g. cookies, candies, gift wrap, etc). These items are usually overpriced and not what I'd buy normally but there is the 'peer pressure' of having to buy something. I usually cave and order one of some inexpensive thing that ends up in the break area for everyone to eat (cause I don't want to). Once in awhile I wouldn't mind but it seems to be fairly constant, especially around the holidays. I really wish companies would prohibit staff from these types of solicitations in the workplace.
Sometimes what I've done is say that I'd prefer to give my "time" to the organization...and ask how I can volunteer. This works well with Big Brothers Big Sisters during their annual fund raiser.

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We have a similar problem with poor friends when we go out to eat together. One is a single mom on a limited pension. We just ask her to calculate what she owes and we split the rest. But we have gone with separate checks at restaurants that allow it. Especially with a couple that does not drink.
I agree that the alcohol thing is a bit messy. Wife and I drink...so we are careful not to burden others in the party with our expenses in that regard.

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Thanks for the inputs Sarah, SueJ and tkopel, and absolutely I think they are likely being opportunistic and I'm trying to think of whether that is based on desperation or deceit.

I have only received a response from one (the older) of them to my request for the mortgage # and address to mail a check. It said, "hi, thanks, I'll let Dale know you called, I don't know those details.".
Dave Ramsey says make it a gift, and attach it to some behavior you want to see out of the person...sort of like an incentive. Not sure how you'd do that here....but something like "Once you get a job...any job...I'll match your house payment for 3 months up to $xxx/month". Flipping burgers suddenly pays double.
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Old 03-28-2012, 02:33 PM   #54
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BTW, we've gone to establishing the "rules" before we sit down to a meal with anybody we don't know. That has eliminated most of the problem (unless we're caught up in conversation and I forget to bring up the subject).
I think this is the way to go. And if no one wants to discuss it? Then when you sit down and the server comes up, just say loudly enough for others to hear "Please put me on a separate check...I prefer to pay for my meal that way."
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Old 03-28-2012, 02:38 PM   #55
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Wow, this thread is a nice emotional cleansing for me.

In early career, I was the dupe of many a "everybody toss in a $20" when I knew my share was closer to $10.

.
I think 80% of the time it's as many of you have experienced...someone trying to get away paying less. However, some people just aren't very smart with the math, or don't believe in tipping.

They know the menu for shrimp cocktail was "7-something", and that each beer was $3-something..so after 1 shrimp and 2 beers they throw in $15. They fail to realize the shrimp was $7.95, the beers were $3.95, there is 8% tax depending on state, and then a 15% tip....which is way more than they put in.

P.S. I'm an engineer undergrad
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Old 03-28-2012, 03:02 PM   #56
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I think 80% of the time it's as many of you have experienced...someone trying to get away paying less. However, some people just aren't very smart with the math, or don't believe in tipping.

They know the menu for shrimp cocktail was "7-something", and that each beer was $3-something..so after 1 shrimp and 2 beers they throw in $15. They fail to realize the shrimp was $7.95, the beers were $3.95, there is 8% tax depending on state, and then a 15% tip....which is way more than they put in.

P.S. I'm an engineer undergrad
In my specific situation the boss and his wife were winos, and the bottles flowed, always their choices and at their end of the table. When the tab came, she collected the "everbody owes" $20's and then put the meal on her United FF credit card. Many folks noticed, but what can ya do.
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Old 03-28-2012, 03:11 PM   #57
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In my specific situation the boss and his wife were winos, and the bottles flowed, always their choices and at their end of the table. When the tab came, she collected the "everbody owes" $20's and then put the meal on her United FF credit card. Many folks noticed, but what can ya do.
Quoting Dave Ramsey again..."I'd quit". He says if you work for a company that has bad ethics, or does things that are illegal, or disrespectful of you as a person, or etc....then you really don't want to be working there.
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Old 03-28-2012, 04:03 PM   #58
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Quoting Dave Ramsey again..."I'd quit". He says if you work for a company that has bad ethics, or does things that are illegal, or disrespectful of you as a person, or etc....then you really don't want to be working there.

I am thinking that it has been some time since Dave Ramsey worked for an American megacorp. There must be some good ones but reading this forum for more than a day makes me think they are rare.
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Old 03-28-2012, 04:06 PM   #59
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In my specific situation the boss and his wife were winos, and the bottles flowed, always their choices and at their end of the table. When the tab came, she collected the "everbody owes" $20's and then put the meal on her United FF credit card. Many folks noticed, but what can ya do.
Parking: $8
Babysitter: $25
What you actually paid for your $10 meal: $21.50
Having funny stories to tell about your cheapass wino boss and his clueless wife: PRICELESS!
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