Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 08-14-2007, 12:10 PM   #81
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 301
I'm barely over the 100k point, here's how I did it:

- Be born with a high aptitude for math
- In high school look at careers and salaries, figure "I'm good at math, engineering pays well, guess I'll do that"
- Get Electrical Engineering degree
- Start at 30k in 1987, work, get raise, repeat.......

Primarily luck that I was born in the engineer mold (or is that a curse?) and took advantage of it.

Still not FIRE though, if that's any concillation

- John
__________________

__________________
runchman is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 08-14-2007, 12:45 PM   #82
Dryer sheet wannabe
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 21
Quote:
While that statement is true, you must really look at the grades/scores/marks needed just to advance into those programs as well as the amount of education and years of training to be able to competently engage in the mentioned occupations. That is the real barrier to entry. The licensure process is merely a way for the government to be able to ensure that those engaging in their profession are capable of doing it to a standard that has been set. By the way... I'm a dentist
Hi novaman,

The years of education (and good grades) are required to meet licensing requirements imposed by the state. If the state did not impose such requirements, anyone and his uncle can open a clinic and start practicing. The elimination of licensing requirements promotes competition and reduces the incomes of these practitioners. It may also reduce health care costs. Of course this leaves the consumers to fend for themselves. They will have to figure out by other means (i.e. doctor's reputation, trial and error, etc) if the doctor they are seeing is actually competent.

Being an MD myself, I think licensing is needed to protect the public. All I'm saying is that the high income occupations got to that state partly because of the barrier to competition imposed by licensure.
__________________

__________________
ndfmnlf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2007, 05:16 PM   #83
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
2B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Houston
Posts: 4,330
Quote:
Originally Posted by ndfmnlf View Post
Hi novaman,

The years of education (and good grades) are required to meet licensing requirements imposed by the state. If the state did not impose such requirements, anyone and his uncle can open a clinic and start practicing.
Good grades and the current years of education aren't necessarily the optimum for licensing for medicine. Way back in pre-1900's, doctors frequently came from unregulated "schools" with a wide variety of standards. Many never went to anything that resembled college. The quality frequently left much to be desired.

The AMA took over and was really the first to manage the licensing practice for any profession. They went a bit overboard - IMHO - with the barriers to entrance into a highly restricted number of medical school openings. The US is the only country I am aware of that requires medical students to get a 4 year degree before admitance to medical school. It helped the salaries of doctors in the past but now we can't import enough foreign educated doctors to fill our health care needs.

I will agree that we get the "best and brightest" for the ones that become doctors. Importing massive numbers of foreign educated doctors makes me wonder why we don't double the number of US schools and let people enter after good freshman grades in a math/science formatted curriculum.
__________________
2B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2007, 06:01 PM   #84
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
DblDoc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,224
I wonder how many applicants there are now for each slot in medical school. I don't think the attraction is there. You face a great deal of uncertainty about what medicine will look like 10 - 20 - 30 years from now, you have little control over your work and with a good economy the job security hasn't likely been much of an incentive. Personally I would not recommend family/friends enter a career as an MD. Yes the pay is good but relatively speaking not as good as it used to be and it is increasingly more stressfull.
__________________
DblDoc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2007, 06:18 PM   #85
Moderator Emeritus
Rich_by_the_Bay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 8,827
Quote:
Originally Posted by DblDoc View Post
I wonder how many applicants there are now for each slot in medical school. I don't think the attraction is there. You face a great deal of uncertainty about what medicine will look like 10 - 20 - 30 years from now, you have little control over your work and with a good economy the job security hasn't likely been much of an incentive. Personally I would not recommend family/friends enter a career as an MD. Yes the pay is good but relatively speaking not as good as it used to be and it is increasingly more stressfull.
True enough, med school applications are down but still very competitive. There are numerous 2nd generation immigrant students (many Asian / East Indian), the kids of those who came during my generation and faced great workplace discrimination. The "kids" are doing just fine, though, and are well represented among the best medical students.

The fact that med schools are no longer filled 85% by valedictorians and 4.0 GPA students is not all bad. Maybe they will be more rounded and balanced in their patient interactions.

BTW. in the 1960s, when I applied, there were about 30 applicants for every medical school spot. Viet Nam was still raging and medicine was one of the few draft deferral strategies available.
__________________
Rich
San Francisco Area
ESR'd March 2010. FIRE'd January 2011.

As if you didn't know..If the above message contains medical content, it's NOT intended as advice, and may not be accurate, applicable or sufficient. Don't rely on it for any purpose. Consult your own doctor for all medical advice.
Rich_by_the_Bay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2007, 08:35 PM   #86
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
BunsGettingFirm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,502
Quote:
Originally Posted by brewer12345 View Post
We'd tell you, but then we'd have to kill you.

...Then I pursued a hard-to-get and much sought after professional designation. I finished the first exam three weeks after grad school finals, and I finished the second one less than 24 hours before my wife went into labor with our first kid. Now I work very long hours with an ugly commute.

Count your blessings.
Would that be the CFA designation? BTW, I'm hearing from guys work hedge funds that a CFA + MBA doesn't mean squat, at least not in the USA. Is that a case of envy or reality? Most of them have only bachelor's degree but have put in their time doing back office work, so they are making decent money.
__________________
BunsGettingFirm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2007, 08:43 PM   #87
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
wildcat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Lou-evil
Posts: 2,025
Quote:
Originally Posted by BunsGettingFirm View Post
Would that be the CFA designation? BTW, I'm hearing from guys work hedge funds that a CFA + MBA doesn't mean squat, at least not in the USA. Is that a case of envy or reality? Most of them have only bachelor's degree but have put in their time doing back office work, so they are making decent money.
It still matters for the finance world. Hedge funds have leaned more towards the math & computer engineering types in recent years.
__________________
"These walls are kind of funny. First you hate 'em, then you get used to 'em. Enough time passes, gets so you depend on them"
wildcat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2007, 09:12 PM   #88
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
BunsGettingFirm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,502
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gumby View Post
Barbarus:

Associates at big New York City law firms are now starting at $140k per year, so you could try that. As you might expect, however, there are a few strings attached:

1. You must work your @ss off in high school to get good grades and build your resume so that you can get into an Ivy League college. No partying, drugs or general teenage shenanigans for you.

2. You must work your @ss off at your Ivy League college so that you will get good grades to get into a top law school. Again, not much of the party time, wild and crazy college experience for you.

3. You must work your @ass off in law school so that you are in the top of your class and on the law review, so that you can even get an interview with the top firms.

4. Now that you have been hired by Wee, Billam & Howe LLP, you will be expected to work regular 14 hour days, including probably more than half of your weekends, with the occasional all-nighter thrown in for fun. Even when you aren't physically working, you will be thinking about what you might have screwed up and worrying whether you will be fired and/or sued for malpractice.

5. Unless mom and dad paid for your education, you will have $200k or more in student loans to repay.

6. You get to live in New York, where a one bedroom apartment goes for $2500 per month or more, and everything else is similarly expensive.

7. Every day, you get to deal with people who are paid to be difficult.


Sounds like a real gravy train to me.
I remember seeing the picture of a big-time partner in a law firm. The caption stated that he was 46 at the time, but he looked about 60. I guess everything has a price.
__________________
BunsGettingFirm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2007, 09:13 PM   #89
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
BunsGettingFirm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,502
Quote:
Originally Posted by wildcat View Post
It still matters for the finance world. Hedge funds have leaned more towards the math & computer engineering types in recent years.
Which are degrees that I also have. Man, I guess those guys were just being difficult.
__________________
BunsGettingFirm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2007, 04:42 PM   #90
Dryer sheet aficionado
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 47
It's certainly not good to think high salary is something that generally only doctors and laywers get. As some have already commented, look at the big picture.

Most people are only limited in the earnings potential by what is in their own mind. A mechanic can learn the trade from a book or their dad, get good, then open their own shop, build a customer base, then have other mechanics work for them. Its not easy, but neither is medical school.

I still think the top criteria for building wealth:
1. Having a goal
2. Planning, dynamically, on reaching the goal.
3. Working hard/smart based on that plan
4. A salaried job is only one way to earn income, consider contracting, consulting, and starting a business, in your planning.

For tier 2 priorities I would still not rank profession, I would rank:
5. Identify a field that is currently in high demand and pays well
6. Identify what cities are hot spots for these fields and move/work there.

*NOTE: be sure to see big picture, you must count time investment, tuition + interest, etc., in your analysis. We have already seen dr/lawyers comment... it's a huge up front investment.

I would love to go back to highschool and get this advice instead of the ignorant nonsense I received back then. (not too long ago).
And this has no relation to technical vs non-technical, professional vs non-professional, ivy-league vs high school education.

-Mach
__________________
Mach is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2007, 11:39 AM   #91
Recycles dryer sheets
Eyerishgold's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 222
I used to have a chip on my shoulder because I never went to school and therefore don't have a degree. What I do have, however, is a solid understanding planning, saving, investing and budgeting. I also have a lager income than many of my well educated friends. I don't have kids yet but when I do, I'll definately encourage them to go to school and not to follow my path. I've been successful to this point in my career but I'm starting to feel doors closing on me. But it doesn't matter how much I make, it matters what I do with the money I earn. I'm currently doing the right things and will be able to RE in 17 yrs at 45.
__________________
Eyerishgold is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2007, 12:47 PM   #92
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Goonie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: North-Central Illinois
Posts: 3,198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eyerishgold View Post
.......it doesn't matter how much I make, it matters what I do with the money I earn. I'm currently doing the right things and will be able to RE in 17 yrs at 45.
And THAT'S what it's all about, Eyerish! Way to go!
__________________
Goonie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2007, 02:41 PM   #93
Recycles dryer sheets
Robert the Red's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 325
Quote:
Originally Posted by DblDoc View Post
I wonder how many applicants there are now for each slot in medical school. I don't think the attraction is there.
I've heard this worry bruited about from various sources. I've attached a figure from http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/charts1982to2006.pdf that shows that the number of applicants to slots fluctuates around a fair bit, but it's hard to discern any real trend. This vertical axis on this graph, by the way, is the number of individual applicants, not the number of applications.

I know -- injecting data into a forum's discussion is pointless. But pointless is what I live for. And also wandering far from the OP's topic.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg medskool.jpg (118.4 KB, 16 views)
__________________
Robert the Red is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2007, 06:55 PM   #94
Dryer sheet aficionado
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 38
Never earned six figures. Wife is an R.N., that certainly helps at least with job security. But, I won't reiterate my bio here, but, empty your pockets of excuses and get over the self-pity, it is a myth propagated and perpetuated by neo-collectivists (read class warfare pundits) that the successful among us are accidents of birth or got that way in some other "unfair" manner.

Now that I've given you a reality check, let me encourage you. Even 40-50K is sufficient seed capital to plan for and secure, probabilistically, a comfortable retirement if you LBYM and are not defined by the things that own you.

It is a myth propagated by neo-collectivists (read class-warfare propagandists) that the successful among us got that way somehow unfairly.

You can do it too!!!
__________________
hayekcapitalist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2007, 10:55 AM   #95
Moderator Emeritus
Martha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: minnesota
Posts: 13,212
Quote:
Originally Posted by hayekcapitalist View Post
. . . it is a myth propagated and perpetuated by neo-collectivists (read class warfare pundits) that the successful among us are accidents of birth or got that way in some other "unfair" manner.
Fighting words. What is unfair is the huge gap between what workers make and highly paid, self perpetuating management. If there was a class war, they won.
__________________
.


No more lawyer stuff, no more political stuff, so no more CYA

Martha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2007, 12:43 PM   #96
Administrator
Gumby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 10,155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martha View Post
Fighting words. What is unfair is the huge gap between what workers make and highly paid, self perpetuating management. If there was a class war, they won.
Speaking of class warfare, I like the following quote:

Labor is prior to, and independent of,capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could not have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration.
Lincoln in the Annual Message to Congress, December 3, 1861
__________________
Living an analog life in the Digital Age.
Gumby is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2007, 12:11 AM   #97
Dryer sheet aficionado
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: san francisco
Posts: 46
It's all about how much you keep.. not how much you make.
__________________
afteriretire.com
CourtneyC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2007, 01:48 AM   #98
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
youbet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 9,965
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martha View Post
Fighting words. What is unfair is the huge gap between what workers make and highly paid, self perpetuating management. If there was a class war, they won.
Include, along with "magagement," white collar professionals now making huge multiples over honest, hardworking blue collar workers.
__________________
"I wasn't born blue blood. I was born blue-collar." John Wort Hannam
youbet is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2007, 01:45 PM   #99
Confused about dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Southbay, California
Posts: 3
A job that some people might want to consider is SALES. It's one of the few jobs where a degree is not required (but recommended) and you can make some good money. I've been in the technology industry for over 10 years now and I have seen countless people with no degrees / maybe some college work make over $100k/year consistently and some good ones average $150k/year including years over $200k/year. Technology/Telecom/Pharmacy Sales are all good industries for salespeople or jobs in general. If you have the right personality and are willing to accept the risks (quota every month) that come with the reward, then sales might be the right job for you.
__________________
Southbay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2007, 06:24 PM   #100
Moderator Emeritus
Martha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: minnesota
Posts: 13,212
In my town we have some medical specialists making a million five and some family practice docs making $70,000.
__________________

__________________
.


No more lawyer stuff, no more political stuff, so no more CYA

Martha is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:05 PM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.