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More FIRE fail
Old 12-06-2018, 09:56 AM   #1
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More FIRE fail

Good examples why you need a buffer in case you experience "shocks" in retirement

“Explaining to your employer you have this gap in your resume because you decided to retire … I feel like you would have to come up with a really good spin on that.”

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/th...of2&yptr=yahoo
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Old 12-06-2018, 10:44 AM   #2
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Most didn’t have enough money to retire. It was obvious.
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Old 12-06-2018, 10:46 AM   #3
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One failed at FIRE due to breast cancer, which I don't know how much saving could overcome.
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Old 12-06-2018, 10:55 AM   #4
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One failed at FIRE due to breast cancer, which I don't know how much saving could overcome.
Did they attempt FIRE? Seems like the article indicates they abandoned the attempt after the diagnosis.

Premature death is definitely a shock that should be mitigated.

DW and I have had those discussions and have mitigated that financial risk.
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Old 12-06-2018, 11:04 AM   #5
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I was more thinking that if you die before you retire, you have also failed to FIRE.
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Old 12-06-2018, 11:06 AM   #6
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I was more thinking that if you die before you retire, you have also failed to FIRE.
good point!
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Old 12-06-2018, 11:48 AM   #7
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That's more like FIRE ignorance. Really less than $200k nest egg and she thought that was sufficient at 28? SMH
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Old 12-06-2018, 12:02 PM   #8
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Less examples of lack of prep for early retirees in their 50's vs. in their 20's.
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Old 12-06-2018, 12:02 PM   #9
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It's not FIRE if you weren't FI. It's just quitting your job and winging it.
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Old 12-06-2018, 12:15 PM   #10
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I'm curious what sort of pension that a person at the tender age of 27 could possibly qualify for that would amount to anything substantial enough to consider FIRE?
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Old 12-06-2018, 12:25 PM   #11
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I'm curious what sort of pension that a person at the tender age of 27 could possibly qualify for that would amount to anything substantial enough to consider FIRE?
there could be a disability pension that pays a benefit based on service projected to age 65
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Old 12-06-2018, 12:31 PM   #12
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Yeah, but I certainly don't get the feeling from the article that she was/is disabled. And even then, how could they possibly extrapolate that out for 40 years given the limited time she would have been working if only 27.
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Old 12-06-2018, 12:38 PM   #13
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Yeah, but I certainly don't get the feeling from the article that she was/is disabled. And even then, how could they possibly extrapolate that out for 40 years given the limited time she would have been working if only 27.
depends on the plan document or provisions of governing law if a public sector plan - the calculation is usually simple, you use the current compensation and project the service. not all plans have this provision, however

typically once an age and/or service condition is met and the participant suffers total and permanent disability they would qualify for the benefit

"Because of some technicalities, she wasn’t able to access her pension yet" - I'm guessing she isn't disabled but was just trying to get the pension earlier. You are correct, it is difficult to get anything material from a defined benefit plan at age 27 as a terminated vested participant.
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Old 12-06-2018, 01:06 PM   #14
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Also, there was the comment in the article that she was planning to return to the IT work she had been doing thus far, so it certainly doesn't sound like she was disabled from her work.
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Old 12-06-2018, 01:46 PM   #15
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I know the first young lady they outlined in the article (Gwen). I think she was simply undercapitalized and didn't have nearly enough to be 100% FI. She tried freelancing, did some other stuff like stained glass artwork/Etsy, and I don't think anything materialized money-wise sufficient to keep her going. And her rental didn't cash flow like she hoped plus it was a headache (low end rentals tend to be like that!).

So she gave semi-retirement a shot. Or call it a career retooling or career shift. Then she broke up with her boyfriend and had to move out (big expense boost when you're not splitting housing costs).

End result: she's moving to DC, making more money than before she quit (~$100k IIRC), and will probably be able to make even more as she advances.

She's ex military so perhaps she had a small disability pension? Or it might have been a rollover from a former employer since I know she had a pension there too.

I doubt she's incredibly unhappy with how things turned out, since she'll still be able to FIRE at an incredibly early age with a much larger portfolio plus the benefit of experience of giving it a shot once before.

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“At the beginning, I had to evaluate the risks,” she said. “I knew the worst-case scenario is that we would break up, I move out and move in with my parents … I was able to do that because I don’t have anybody depending on me. I can take these risks knowing I’m only affecting myself.”
This seems like a reasonable approach to the issue. The risks weren't so great that she couldn't regroup and rebuild if things didn't work out. I wouldn't do it in my own life when I was 28, but then again I had a mortgage and 2 kids in diapers. Different strokes.
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Old 12-06-2018, 01:50 PM   #16
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I doubt she's incredibly unhappy with how things turned out, since she'll still be able to FIRE at an incredibly early age with a much larger portfolio plus the benefit of experience of giving it a shot once before.



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that's the problem when you blow your wad in your 20s - arguably, that's the most critical time to save for (real) retirement
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Old 12-06-2018, 01:55 PM   #17
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It's not FIRE if you weren't FI. It's just quitting your job and winging it.
that's just it - these kids think they are FI, then they break up with their boyfriend (or experience some other shock or whatever) and it gets real fast:

Divorce
Death of a spouse
Sickness/Accident
Dental
Long-term care
Major house repair
Asset decline (market crashes)
Caring for children/parents

if any of those will cause an unworkable problem for you financially then you aren't FI
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Old 12-06-2018, 01:55 PM   #18
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Oye. Oye. Oye.

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“At the beginning, I had to evaluate the risks,” she said. “I knew the worst-case scenario is that we would break up, I move out and move in with my parents … I was able to do that because I don’t have anybody depending on me. I can take these risks knowing I’m only affecting myself.
That's a great Plan "B", eh? And I am going to be an ass here..."only affecting myself"? Your parents did their job..your inability to plan accordingly isn't their fault, and I do think it affects them, too.
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Old 12-06-2018, 01:59 PM   #19
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And this one...

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That said, “early retirement” doesn’t always mean leaving the workforce — some “FIRE” movement members plan to still work...
That's it...I am now part of the retirement police. I will own it. Retirement is EXACTLY THAT...LEAVING THE WORKPLACE!!! I think the "FIRE" movement has turned into a raging dumpster fire.
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Old 12-06-2018, 02:03 PM   #20
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Oye. Oye. Oye.



That's a great Plan "B", eh? And I am going to be an ass here..."only affecting myself"? Your parents did their job..your inability to plan accordingly isn't their fault, and I do think it affects them, too.
crap let me add kids moving back in to the list of shocks...
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