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Re: More on teacher pay
Old 12-11-2006, 09:06 AM   #161
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Re: More on teacher pay

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Originally Posted by donheff
I haven't thought about the gift tax before but my gut says Samclem is right on this one. It is a lot different than the estate tax. Money I give to my kids has already been taxed. Heck people can give money to churches and charities and get a tax deduction - the recipients pay nothing. Give to your kids and they pay income tax? What is that about? I can see why you would be expected to pay capital gains on equities or property that you give to kids, but why money that has been taxed?
ALl the more reason to do annual gifting BEFORE you die, or use a bypass trust to make sure your unified credit is being applied correctly.........
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Re: More on teacher pay
Old 12-11-2006, 09:44 AM   #162
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Re: More on teacher pay

WHEW!! I am happy today to read that this thread has morphed into a "rich people" bashing instead of just teacher bashing!!! Now I can be done with my morning break and get back to teaching my students!!
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Re: More on teacher pay
Old 12-11-2006, 09:51 AM   #163
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Re: More on teacher pay

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Originally Posted by SolidA
WHEW!! I am happy today to read that this thread has morphed into a "rich people" bashing instead of just teacher bashing!!! Now I can be done with my morning break and get back to teaching my students!!
What grades?? Good luck!!
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Re: More on teacher pay
Old 12-11-2006, 10:50 AM   #164
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Re: More on teacher pay

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Originally Posted by samclem
Okay, I'll let it go. We did get off track. I think I poorly expressed my point about the exchange of funds between parents and their children. The point is this: When the money was earned (by Daddy, Mommy, ther parents, etc) it was, presumably, taxed. Once Mommy and Daddy have the money, they are free to do with it as they want. If they give it charity, the charity pays no tax. They can give it all to the government if they choose. I believe they should be free to give this already-taxed money to their kids without the kids having to pay tax on it.
I have never understood this arguement. Everything that I spend gets sales tax applied, but it has already been taxed with income tax AND SS tax. The money I pay my lawyer is taxed, but he has to pay tax on it anyway. The same is true for money I spend anywhere. Why are your children different? All the elimination of inheritance tax will accomplish is to create a special class of family businesses for which the employees (family) effectively do not have to pay income tax.

The point of taxes is to pay for government, and we pay for government primarily through as assessment on personal income. The fact that your income comes from your parents should not limit your obligation to help out. BTW, if the US people did not want to pay taxes, at current voter participation rates it would only take about 25% of eligible voters to eliminate taxes and the associated spending. However, they have never chosen to do this. Amazingly, they keep voting for taxing and spending. Thus, I would argue things are voluntary for the most part.
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Re: More on teacher pay
Old 12-11-2006, 01:40 PM   #165
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Re: More on teacher pay

Hmmmm....

I have not read it all, but there are some wrong statements in some of these posts...

You can give money all day long to your kids and your kids NEVER have to pay income tax... and they do not have to pay gift tax either... if there is gift tax, YOU pay it...

so, why is there some discussion on the kids paying taxes
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Re: More on teacher pay
Old 12-11-2006, 01:44 PM   #166
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Re: More on teacher pay

Thanks for asking FinanceDude! I teach 6th and 8th Grade English and Math. I teach alternative classes in a regular school setting - in other words, most of my students have probation officers and other assorted issues...
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Re: More on teacher pay
Old 12-11-2006, 02:21 PM   #167
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Re: More on teacher pay

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Originally Posted by SolidA
Thanks for asking FinanceDude! I teach 6th and 8th Grade English and Math. I teach alternative classes in a regular school setting - in other words, most of my students have probation officers and other assorted issues...
Ouch.......do you get combat pay?? Man, 6th and 8th grade........so you got "know-it-alls" with "street smarts" and "rap sheets"..............wow................
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Re: More on teacher pay
Old 12-11-2006, 05:36 PM   #168
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Re: More on teacher pay

So, the tax code is even crazier than I thought. Mom and Dad can give the money to charity--no taxes are paid by anyone. They can bury it in the back yard--no taxes paid by anyone. They can even burn the currency in a bonfire--no tax is due at all. BUT--if they try to give the money to their children, then Mom and Dad have to pay tax on it--again. This certainly isn't an "income tax," it is an "outgo tax."



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Re: More on teacher pay
Old 12-11-2006, 05:49 PM   #169
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Re: More on teacher pay

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Originally Posted by samclem
They can bury it in the back yard--no taxes paid by anyone.
There's an idea: bury it in the back yard and tell the kids where it is before you croak!
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Re: More on teacher pay
Old 12-12-2006, 12:17 AM   #170
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Re: More on teacher pay

Quote:
Originally Posted by samclem
So, the tax code is even crazier than I thought. Mom and Dad can give the money to charity--no taxes are paid by anyone. They can bury it in the back yard--no taxes paid by anyone. They can even burn the currency in a bonfire--no tax is due at all. BUT--if they try to give the money to their children, then Mom and Dad have to pay tax on it--again. This certainly isn't an "income tax," it is an "outgo tax."

Spare us the drama. If they bury it in the back yard, they effectively pay 100% tax. If their kids dig it up, then the kids owe the tax, or they get to practice tax evasion. Bonfire = 100% effective tax (although it does help fight inflation ). It might make you happy since the government (you know, teachers, bureaucrats etc.) don't get it, but it seems like a waste to me.

I think the 'taxing it again' argument has already been effectively refuted. Isn't this the basis of the "tax cuts stimulate the economy" argument--that the same money will circulate and be taxed over and over? The government really isn't that evil. It might be bumbling (Iraq, for example), it might be wasteful (Iraq, for example), it might trample on people's rights (Patriot Act, for example), but taxes--are they really THAT much of an evil bogeyman?

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Re: More on teacher pay
Old 12-12-2006, 08:13 AM   #171
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Re: More on teacher pay

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Originally Posted by ERD50
donheff, gift tax and estate tax are essentially the same. One is paid on money gifted while the 'gifter' is alive, the other is paid by the 'gifter's estate on money gifted at death.

For 2006, $12K per year per recipient can be gifted w/o tax. Beyond that, the gifter pays tax, or taps into the exclusion (which takes away from the exclusion for the estate tax).

The reciever of the gift pays NO income tax on it - at any level. See link below for more 'fun facts' - ERD50

http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/...=98968,00.html
I may have misunderstood "gift taxes." I always thought gifts over $10,000 were taxed on the recipient at the recipient's income tax rate. Do they actually use the same scale as estate taxes? I.e. do gifts of say $20,000 carry a tax equaling the estate tax on the first $10,000 over the estate limit?
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Re: More on teacher pay
Old 12-12-2006, 10:14 AM   #172
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Re: More on teacher pay

Quote:
Originally Posted by donheff
I may have misunderstood "gift taxes." I always thought gifts over $10,000 were taxed on the recipient at the recipient's income tax rate. Do they actually use the same scale as estate taxes? I.e. do gifts of say $20,000 carry a tax equaling the estate tax on the first $10,000 over the estate limit?
The current gift limit is $12,000 per person in a year, so a husband and wife could anyone up to $24,000 per year. There is no gift tax until the total gifts exceed a million dollars. Before you hit the $1,000,000 maximum, gifts in excess of the $12,000 gift limit will just effect your taxable estate.

Payments for tuition or medical care and medical insurance are exempt from gift tax if the money goes directly to the provider.

Here are the rates for gifts totally over a million and not exempt under the $12,000 rule:
http://www.irs.gov/formspubs/article...112782,00.html

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Re: More on teacher pay
Old 12-12-2006, 10:36 AM   #173
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Re: More on teacher pay

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Originally Posted by Martha
The current gift limit is $12,000 per person in a year, so a husband and wife could anyone up to $24,000 per year. There is no gift tax until the total gifts exceed a million dollars. Before you hit the $1,000,000 maximum, gifts in excess of the $12,000 gift limit will just effect your taxable estate.

Payments for tuition or medical care and medical insurance are exempt from gift tax if the money goes directly to the provider.

Here are the rates for gifts totally over a million and not exempt under the $12,000 rule:
http://www.irs.gov/formspubs/article...112782,00.html
I am not sure I understand this Martha. I think I get the $12,000/yr bit. It is not taxed and never counts as part of your estate. But If I gave my son $1,212,000 this year (fat chance) would I be able to do that without me or my son paying any tax on the $1M part (other than CGs if I liquidated equities). Then when I died that $1M is already exhausted under the estate tax limit? If so, I have no problem with this structure.
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Re: More on teacher pay
Old 12-12-2006, 10:46 AM   #174
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Re: More on teacher pay

You got it right Don.
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Re: More on teacher pay
Old 12-12-2006, 11:11 AM   #175
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Re: More on teacher pay

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Originally Posted by Martha
You got it right Don.
Great, I can replace my liberal tax hat in confidence. Rich bastards like me need to be taxed more (than the current Bush estate tax cuts provide) not less I think what confused me is the newspaper advice on helping kids out with real property (like "selling" them a house cheap) always cautioned that you have to sell it at full market or risk a tax penalty. In reality you could sell it for whatever you wanted or give it to them as long as you counted the "free" portion against your estate tax limit.
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Re: More on teacher pay
Old 12-12-2006, 11:27 AM   #176
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Re: More on teacher pay

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You got it right Don.
Is it $1,212,000 as Don said or $1,012,000?
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Re: More on teacher pay
Old 12-12-2006, 01:43 PM   #177
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Re: More on teacher pay

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Originally Posted by ERD50

We have a situation where the government has a 'near monopoly' in providing education. Since that monopoly can be abused, I can see why teachers would feel the need for some union protection. I think we have ended up with two powerful forces on each end, and little that an individual can do to impact it.

I'm not saying we should just roll over and play dead either - but I am trying to be realistic about what can be accomplished by an individual.

-ERD50 (maybe THIS should be a different thread? - How should we fund education?)
ERD50 I think you are right this a funding question but I don't think all is lost just yet.

First off, I think blaming teachers for the failure of our education system is like blaming the pilots and flight attendants for the mess the airlines are in.

Now, IMHO, the way to fix the education system is to give power to the consumer. Give them the $$ and the choice of what school system to send their kids to and watch how fast the system responds.

Of course, the administrators, the unions and the political backers will all run around crying and yelling about how this is unfair and the kids will suffer, yada, yada, yada. And who could blame them? Their the ones that will get their feet held to the fire. However, until you put the power in the hands of the people who use the service nothing will change.
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Re: More on teacher pay
Old 12-12-2006, 02:24 PM   #178
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Re: More on teacher pay

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ERD50 I think you are right this a funding question but I don't think all is lost just yet.

First off, I think blaming teachers for the failure of our education system is like blaming the pilots and flight attendants for the mess the airlines are in.

Now, IMHO, the way to fix the education system is to give power to the consumer. Give them the $$ and the choice of what school system to send their kids to and watch how fast the system responds.

Of course, the administrators, the unions and the political backers will all run around crying and yelling about how this is unfair and the kids will suffer, yada, yada, yada. And who could blame them? Their the ones that will get their feet held to the fire. However, until you put the power in the hands of the people who use the service nothing will change.
And some of us moved to a particular community because of the good schools there...........how would we be affected??
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Re: More on teacher pay
Old 12-12-2006, 02:49 PM   #179
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Re: More on teacher pay

Or a small town in BFE, where there's no other choice...
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Re: More on teacher pay
Old 12-12-2006, 03:11 PM   #180
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Re: More on teacher pay

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Originally Posted by FinanceDude
And some of us moved to a particular community because of the good schools there...........how would we be affected??
Hopefully by the fact that you have a good education system and that it would be fully funded. Obliviously much work would need to be done and would take many years to accomplish. But, IMHO, until competition is injected into the education system there is very little incentive to change.

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