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Old 10-20-2010, 10:42 PM   #61
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For what it's worth, I'm an independent agent, not a company agent.
For what it's worth, I never meet 90% of my clients.
For what it's worth, I've never had a single complaint.
For what it's worth, I think you are being naive in your assessment of life insurance and how it applies to the general public
I don't have life insurance.

What the frak are you trying to prove?

Are you related to the pro-disease troll on the health forum?
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Old 10-20-2010, 10:45 PM   #62
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I don't have life insurance.

What the frak are you trying to prove?

Are you related to the pro-disease troll on the health forum?
I didn't mention anything about you having life insurance, not sure what you're referring to...
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Old 10-21-2010, 05:47 AM   #63
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I think dgoldenz has made some valuable posts on this thread. If someone doesn't want life insurance, or a particular type of life insurance, they shouldn't buy it. But it doesn't hurt anyone to get both sides of the argument in order to make an informed decision.
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Old 10-21-2010, 08:39 AM   #64
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Insurance companies can kiss my effin arse. I have had a term policy for 20 years, and called to get additional coverage this summer wehn I got laid off and lost $250,000 of coverage my ex-employer provided to me.

Cut to end of story - they flat out rejected me for a policy on the grounds that I AM AN ALCOHOLIC....(all caps is my way of screaming, a la Lewis Black). You guys don't know me but I can tell you I DO NOT DRINK.

Oh and, this "fact" was promptly delivered the the MIB (medical information bureau, an ominous spy) forever and into perpetuity. Any company I approach now for insurance will see that I AM AN ALCOHOLIC and should be marketed to accordingly.

Pleez. I have been so flustered by this travesty and injustice, that I have given up, and in my severance/layoff/retirement, i have found a delightful new hobby.....DRINKING!!!

(i am fighting the good fight tho, and will know in a few weeks if I successfully "proved" to the company that I am NOT AN ALCOHOLIC, which is sort of like proving you are not gay, or not atheist...)

true story
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Old 10-21-2010, 08:55 AM   #65
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Did he present an "impeccable case" as to how the insurance companies would reinsure that kind of longevity risk? They probably could, but the premiums would be so high noone would buy it, kinda like trying to sell LTC to a healthy 40 year old..........
it's built into every life insurance policy issued today that is not repriced based on health. . I.e. I dont pay more if I become uninsurable so I'm already paying for the option. You subdivide the premium and risk into the life risk and the insurability risk
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Old 10-21-2010, 09:01 AM   #66
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FWIW, 96% of all term insurance policies end without paying out. Insurers LOVE writing term, it's like free money, particularly for young healthy folks. It is true whole life policies are much more expensive, but the insurer is on the hook for your "whole life"......

.
I'm sorry but this is life insurance salesman crapola nonsense. MOST insurance policies do not pay out. that is why the premiums don't add up to the payout amount. It's INSURANCE

my 400,000 policy costs 1500 a year for 20 years to age 72 . Total premium is $30,000 I certainly hope they don't pay out.

But its not free money 'm buying INSURANCE and I'm shifting the risk to them
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Old 10-21-2010, 09:12 AM   #67
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I'm sorry but this is life insurance salesman crapola nonsense.
Uh, I don't sell life insurance, nice try.......



Quote:
MOST insurance policies do not pay out. that is why the premiums don't add up to the payout amount. It's INSURANCE
So, whole life has no use, whatever, to anyone?


Quote:
But its not free money 'm buying INSURANCE and I'm shifting the risk to them
Not debating that, as a matter of fact, this thread should talk about more that truism than the usual drumbeat mantra of "life insurance is a ripoff".........

I own quite a bit of life insurance, but that's my decision. I am a big advocate of risk transference..........
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Old 10-21-2010, 09:15 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by Gumby View Post
I think dgoldenz has made some valuable posts on this thread. If someone doesn't want life insurance, or a particular type of life insurance, they shouldn't buy it. But it doesn't hurt anyone to get both sides of the argument in order to make an informed decision.
+1

dgoldenz is NOT soliciting to anyone, but he obviously knows the industry. I find that valuable, but YMMV..........
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Old 10-21-2010, 09:20 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by dgoldenz View Post
For what it's worth, I'm an independent agent, not a company agent.
For what it's worth, I never meet 90% of my clients.
For what it's worth, I've never had a single complaint.
For what it's worth, I think you are being naive in your assessment of life insurance and how it applies to the general public
Translation:
For what it's worth, this makes a diff. because?
For what it's worth, why would you want to?
For what it's worth, not one of my clients ever woke up.
For what it's worth, I think you are paying attention and I wish you'd go to sleep like the rest of my victims/clients.

But hey, everyone has to make a living.
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Old 10-21-2010, 09:30 AM   #70
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This, my friends, is what the esteemed Cute Fuzzy Bunny would have referred to, ever so poetically, as a hairball. A subject upon which the participants will never see eye-to-eye and will resist any argument, reasonable or otherwise, to change their hairball belief.

Edit to add Martha's citation: "Hairball":* A block to rational decision making.* They're complex intellectual, emotional...and/or sometimes physical claptraps, the origin of which probably cant be determined. Post #58 on this thread.
http://early-retirement.org/forums/i...7507#msg157507
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Old 10-21-2010, 09:32 AM   #71
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Yup, let's flush it.
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Old 10-21-2010, 09:34 AM   #72
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Shucks, it was just getting to be fun..........
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Old 10-21-2010, 09:37 AM   #73
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Insurance companies can kiss my effin arse. I have had a term policy for 20 years, and called to get additional coverage this summer wehn I got laid off and lost $250,000 of coverage my ex-employer provided to me.
Group life insurance is a bad deal unless you're in terrible health and can't health qualify to get your own policy. What happens if your company goes bankrupt? What happens when you get laid off (as mentioned above)? What happens when you change jobs? If you need X amount of dollars in coverage, buy X amount on an individually owned policy which can't be taken away from you for reasons beyond your control. Unfortunately, you found this out the hard way.

Are you working with an independent agent who can shop your case with multiple companies, or did you apply with a company directly? If you have never been a drinker, odds are you were rejected for your liver enzymes being too high. Elevated liver enzymes is often associated with heavy drinking, but that's not always the cause. It should be easy enough for your doctor to clear up the information with a letter stating you do not drink alcohol, but it sounds like there is more to the story than that.
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Old 10-21-2010, 10:05 AM   #74
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Uh, I don't sell life insurance, nice try.......





So, whole life has no use, whatever, to anyone?




Not debating that, as a matter of fact, this thread should talk about more that truism than the usual drumbeat mantra of "life insurance is a ripoff".........

I own quite a bit of life insurance, but that's my decision. I am a big advocate of risk transference..........
I didn't say you sold it. I do say you are repeating what I IMHO consider life insurance salesman crapola.

The crapola is not about insurance it is about using your need for insurance to push you to invest with them
Insurance is insurance, investment is investment.

You have to have a demonstrably good reason to combine them
Insurance is a method of paying to avoid the catastrophic effect of a probabilistic event. Very useful stuff.

Investments are a different issue. Insurance companeis can only offer a very limited form of investment.

Whole life insurance is a hybrid product. Hybrid products, whether sporks, cane swords, battleship /aircraft carriers/ helicopter airplanes , Amphi cars, or snowblower rototillers can always be designed and promoted. Few are a really good idea. With very few exceptions however they are irrational outside of a niche.

It is normally irrational to buy insurance for events which you can easily absorb since the transaction costs are very high. So you take big deductables on home and car insurance.

Annuities are a form of insurance against longevity risk. they are by necessity a hybrid product, which is why pricing is critical.

Health insurance for routine health care is not really insurance. It s is a form of buying cooperative. Because the market for health services does not work efficiently purchasers band together to buy the product.
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Old 10-21-2010, 10:33 AM   #75
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Here you go!
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File Type: jpg hairball.jpg (35.3 KB, 68 views)
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Old 10-21-2010, 12:48 PM   #76
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So, whole life has no use, whatever, to anyone?
Are you kidding? Not only are the initial commissions nice, but the residual income stream from policy renewals is great. A good agent can continue to make money from sales they made years or even decades ago.

Whole life definitely has a use for someone.
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Old 10-21-2010, 01:06 PM   #77
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Are you kidding? Not only are the initial commissions nice, but the residual income stream from policy renewals is great. A good agent can continue to make money from sales they made years or even decades ago.
There is residual income on car, boat, health, disability, homeowners, etc. The only way to keep an agent from not making money on policy renewals is to cancel all those insurances.......
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Old 10-21-2010, 01:18 PM   #78
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There is residual income on car, boat, health, disability, homeowners, etc. The only way to keep an agent from not making money on policy renewals is to cancel all those insurances.......
You give me great idea! I will kill myself so no one will ever make any money from dealing with me again.
Hooray! I win!
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Old 10-21-2010, 01:22 PM   #79
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You give me great idea! I will kill myself so no one will ever make any money from dealing with me again.
Hooray! I win!
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Old 10-21-2010, 02:38 PM   #80
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You give me great idea! I will kill myself so no one will ever make any money from dealing with me again.
Hooray! I win!
Don't do that Ha, we will miss you too much. Just move all your money to ML and it'll make you feel better.
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