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Old 08-05-2008, 10:20 AM   #81
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65 is pretty darn arbitrary. Why not work until 72 or 84?

If we assume that people don't live forever, then we can assume, from a mortality table standpoint, an 80 year old would need to fund a shorter retirement if she stopped working than a 40 year old early retiree.

So, from a portfolio standpoint, putting off working as long as possible will give you better odds of not outliving your portfolio. In fact, if you know when you're going to die, you could put off working until just a year before that. Your portfolio could withstand a 100% withdrawal rate just fine!
Why do that when you can just live it up in the meantime, rack up a ton of CC debt, go upside down on a mortgage, buy timeshares, etc. and then just absolve all your debts by going 6 feet under?
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Old 08-05-2008, 11:17 AM   #82
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While I wouldn't stand in judgment, my reaction runs along the lines of "How would you know what you're missing? You've never done anything but work. Your family barely knows you. You have no outside interests, marginal social skills, and little self-image outside of your profession."
If this is accurate they are likely making a good decision not to change things too much. I believe that overall, we can't have it all. Certain decisions and even career patterns foreclose other possibilities. I see that as fine and in the nature of things and part of the background pain of life.

A wonderful movie that confronts this issue in the life of a distinguished physician is Wild Strawberries.

Ha
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Old 08-05-2008, 11:28 AM   #83
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There are certainly plenty of "About Schmidt"'s. Plenty that wont be, but are scared to stick their foot in the water.

Probably because Kathy Bates might be naked in there somewhere.
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Old 08-05-2008, 11:50 AM   #84
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The engineering biz is currently going wild. Anyone with a degree is in demand. We're all being treated well because they can't hire enough of us and they're afraid we'll go across the street if we get pissed.
What feild of Engineering? I'm actually a chemical engineer and looking to jump ship as right now I make plastics for airplane interiors and commercial aviation is starting to take a nose-dive.
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Old 08-05-2008, 01:04 PM   #85
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A wonderful movie that confronts this issue in the life of a distinguished physician is Wild Strawberries.
Ha
Wild Strawberries (1957) by Ingmar Bergman. I am #1 on the local public library queue. Thanks Ha.

I like this kind of movies. American action movies with stunts that defy laws of physics put me to sleep.
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Old 08-05-2008, 01:08 PM   #86
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If this is accurate they are likely making a good decision not to change things too much. I believe that overall, we can't have it all. Certain decisions and even career patterns foreclose other possibilities. I see that as fine and in the nature of things and part of the background pain of life.
No disagreement (which is why I have that little monolog silently). The only problem is that there is a gray zone between being clearly incompetent to practice and competent but worrisomely out of date or lacking "edge" and judgment. The latter group can become problematic if they insist on working while still being "competent" in the grander sense.
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Old 08-05-2008, 01:15 PM   #87
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No disagreement (which is why I have that little monolog silently). The only problem is that there is a gray zone between being clearly incompetent to practice and competent but worrisomely out of date or lacking "edge" and judgment. The latter group can become problematic if they insist on working while still being "competent" in the grander sense.
In most fields the incompetents are safely into management by the time they have lost it. Isn't there some safe jobs in medicine that people with reduced skills and no judgement can still perform ?
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Old 08-05-2008, 01:16 PM   #88
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Back to tools...

For occasional, light-duty use, your el-cheapo consumer brands are okie-dokie. But I speak from experience when I say that frequent, high-duty cycle use will melt the plastic in consumer grade tools. I've done it with a staple gun, a drill, and a sabre saw...
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Old 08-05-2008, 01:25 PM   #89
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No disagreement (which is why I have that little monolog silently). The only problem is that there is a gray zone between being clearly incompetent to practice and competent but worrisomely out of date or lacking "edge" and judgment. The latter group can become problematic if they insist on working while still being "competent" in the grander sense.
I think I didn't realize that you were referring to their fitness for their jobs, from the POV of the recipients of services.

I was thinking more along the ER angle of what are they losing personally in thier lives.

Ha
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Old 08-05-2008, 01:25 PM   #90
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In most fields the incompetents are safely into management by the time they have lost it. Isn't there some safe jobs in medicine that people with reduced skills and no judgement can still perform ?
A few end up working for nothing as web forum moderators.
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Old 08-05-2008, 01:34 PM   #91
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A few end up working for nothing as web forum moderators.

And with a great group like this, that's the most rewarding around job for a semi-retired doctor
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Old 08-05-2008, 01:44 PM   #92
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I find it hard to believe anyone dislikes work in general, but maybe I'm wrong.
I'm just having a hard time getting over this. What's so good about work again? Seriously, it is surprising to me that someone (especially on this message board!) feels that way.
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Old 08-05-2008, 01:52 PM   #93
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I'm pretty sure nothing beats sitting on the couch and eating homemade ice cream.

Pretty much anything that would take me away from that is probably work-like and therefore dislikeable.
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Old 08-05-2008, 02:06 PM   #94
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I'm just having a hard time getting over this. What's so good about work again? Seriously, it is surprising to me that someone (especially on this message board!) feels that way.
While I also find the message "disturbing", I understand why it may be made, especially if it's from a younger person (anyway - younger than me, at age 60 ).

As my parents before me (born in the Depression) or my grandparents (all four emigrated from Europe after WWI with little more than the clothes on their back), I went through some "difficult times".

Not to hold a "pity me party", but just as an example, I was "required" to start work (full time) at a family business at the age of 13. What was full time? Every day I did not go to school, I was at work (10-12 hour shifts, at no pay - hey, I was getting room/board!). That included all weekends, holidays, and summer "vacations" (what's that?). When I graduated from HS (only one of my parents did), I was given the option. Work at "the business" on a 7-day week schedule, or get a job and give 50% of any net pay for my room/board.

As for "higher education" (e.g. college/university) - that was not an option, given the "maturity" of my parents .

Luckly, there was this thing called the "draft". I was called, I left home, and never returned.

If the "measurement" is from age 13 of starting work, till a bit over age 59 when I retired, that means that I've been "gainfully employed" for 46+ years.

Sorry, but I have no desire to hit the 50-year mark.

I'm retired and very happy with my life these days. No way would I want to return to any j*b where I am told what to do, when to do it, and how to do it.

My "freedom" was well earned, thank you very much.

(Sorry to rant, but I'm feeling like it, today ...)

- Ron
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Old 08-05-2008, 06:23 PM   #95
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I realize it's not easy, but I can't remember seeing finding another employer or career as an alternative if you don't like your work instead of RE. I find it hard to believe anyone dislikes work in general, but maybe I'm wrong.
I think in quite a few cases, forum members do not dislike their work, just the work environment. After investing in the education and training to obtain the job they have now, it is too difficult to find an alternative that pays as well. Besides, where can you go? It is better to grit your teeth, and build up your savings. Would you think any CEO would read posts like these, to see how corporate America has destroyed the nation productivity? Or do they even care?

I am among the ones who tried to build small businesses with friends, so we can do it "our way" without the megacorp BS, but we failed miserably.

Ron, in the above post, expressed his sentiments that he had worked hard in his life and now deserves some rest. Man, that's hard work, compared to what I have done. Ron is also older, in the 60s. But some people like myself are in their early 50s, when we are burnt out more due to corporate BS more than the work. My wife, of the same age as mine, got stressed out of her job with all the outsourcing to India.

P.S. I often lamented to my friends at a megacorp that perhaps they harassed us with BS so we would quit and save them the severance pay ...
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Old 08-05-2008, 06:54 PM   #96
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Would you think any CEO would read posts like these, to see how corporate America has destroyed the nation productivity? Or do they even care?
I think many corporations have the mindset that employees are a "cost", as if they're getting no benefit...
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Old 08-05-2008, 07:31 PM   #97
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I think many corporations have the mindset that employees are a "cost", as if they're getting no benefit...
Sooo - getting layed off at 49 after 23 years - which mildly pissed me off at the time - in the end made me happy.

Took a while for the part between my ears to morph from unemployed to retired.

I'd hate to think if I accidentily bumped my head or something that W word stuff would come back.

heh heh heh - and luckily I do suffer from nightmares.
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Old 08-05-2008, 07:56 PM   #98
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My dentist enjoys his work and sets his own hours.

How about being a pharmacist (even though you may be able to set your own hours)? A pharmacist does not have to do status report, project planning, attend meetings, meet deadlines, give or receive performance reviews, work on personal development plan.
Oh really? Let me introduce you to some friends of mine!
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Old 08-05-2008, 08:02 PM   #99
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commercial aviation is starting to take a nose-dive.
....so to speak....
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Old 08-05-2008, 08:08 PM   #100
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In most fields the incompetents are safely into management by the time they have lost it. Isn't there some safe jobs in medicine that people with reduced skills and no judgement can still perform ?
Those people would get eaten alive in healthcare management. No, we shuffle 'em off to "mentor" young 'uns or to write the history of the local medical school.
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