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Old 10-08-2015, 08:11 AM   #21
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My wife and a few of her co workers were given a 5 year annual "bonus" as an incentive to retire early. This "bonus" would be deposited in their 403b plan each year. Several of the co workers, who were in their 60's, wanted to know what a 403b plan was.

Amazing, just simply amazing. We are doomed.
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Old 10-08-2015, 08:31 AM   #22
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My wife and a few of her co workers were given a 5 year annual "bonus" as an incentive to retire early. This "bonus" would be deposited in their 403b plan each year. Several of the co workers, who were in their 60's, wanted to know what a 403b plan was.
Good thing they probably have pensions. My mom has several co-workers like that. When it's nearing payday, they even have to borrow money to buy lunch.

At my workplace, majority are a bunch of tightwads.
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Old 10-08-2015, 03:20 PM   #23
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In the future, Walmart shouldn't have problems getting door greeters and Taco Bell shouldn't have problems finding retirees to clean up their tables.
Just wait until all the fast food places become totally automated, what will they do then?
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Old 10-09-2015, 10:42 PM   #24
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I see so many articles on Americans not saving, but then articles about millennial's saving more because of 2008, etc. Today Bank of America told me that the average monthly savings of people aged 25-32 was about 450 a month. I never know what to think and I honestly don't have a clue how other people my age are doing financially. I just lurk around these boards and try to stay motivated and learn as much as I can.


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Old 10-10-2015, 01:09 AM   #25
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Georgialivin - don't worry about what other people may or not be doing. What's important is what your goals are, and whether you're doing what you need to in order to achieve those goals. Everything else, as they say, is just noise.
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Old 10-10-2015, 09:42 AM   #26
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It's been a long time since I had a "savings account".

I'd use the Fed's Survey of Consumer Finances to get a snapshot of assets.
FRB: Survey of Consumer Finances
According to the Federal Reserve's 2013 SCF chartbook (PDF in your link) charts 435-437 say that about half of all families have retirement accounts and while the average account value is 200K (for those who have accounts), the median value is 59K. Scroll a few pages down and you see that for just the 55-64 age group these numbers are 60%, 285K, and 103K. I'm surprised by how little the median value increases between the 10-year age bands.
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Old 10-10-2015, 09:55 AM   #27
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I amazes me people don't at least save enough in their 401k to get the match or buy the latest gadget when they get a raise or bonus.

I am so glad I learned about saving and LBYM from my Depression Era parents
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Old 10-10-2015, 10:46 AM   #28
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I see so many articles on Americans not saving, but then articles about millennial's saving more because of 2008, etc. Today Bank of America told me that the average monthly savings of people aged 25-32 was about 450 a month. I never know what to think and I honestly don't have a clue how other people my age are doing financially. I just lurk around these boards and try to stay motivated and learn as much as I can.


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LOL, Georgia, I think fear sells and if they can continue to scare the wits out of people about their future....
How would the Suzy Ormans and Dave Ramseys of the world sell their books if they weren't screaming at us day and night about how doomed we are.

Now my pool of people who I know well enough to know their financial background situation is small but pretty much they work, they save, they try and enjoy life.

I have one son who is 24 who is great with money, my youngest son is a freaking wreak. He learns money management kicking and screaming. same house, same parents. I in no way feel like he is "doomed".
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Old 10-10-2015, 10:58 AM   #29
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I'm surprised by how little the median value increases between the 10-year age bands.

I suspect this is a function of other savings vehicles that the older band may have had access to, ergo DC and DB pensions.

The 401k is relatively new. It did not gain traction until the late 1980s. Figure it's been 25 years. I would expect the 40-50 and 50-60 to look fairly similar. The upper savings limits are largely the same aside a few catch up provisions.
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Old 10-10-2015, 03:25 PM   #30
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Georgialivin - don't worry about what other people may or not be doing. What's important is what your goals are, and whether you're doing what you need to in order to achieve those goals. Everything else, as they say, is just noise.

I agree with you on that. However, it's hard not to be curious when finance is a bit of a hobby/interest of mine. If anything it makes me question it more when every article contradicts the other. I guess my thoughts are that there isn't much of a "trend" and there are just a bunch of individuals and every single one handles things a bit differently.


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Old 10-10-2015, 05:34 PM   #31
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I'm sure If we didn't offer a 401k they would have nothing.

"30% of retirees are fully dependent on SS."
Alas, I too know a number of those folks. You're right of course, but they also have very low spending lifestyles, by necessity. Even many years ago when I was in my 20s and 30s, I knew quite a lot of people who had never been out of the county they were born in.

So I don't feel it necessary to feel sorry for them; they are living the life they always expected and they don't feel sorry for themselves.
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Old 10-10-2015, 06:54 PM   #32
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I agree with you on that. However, it's hard not to be curious when finance is a bit of a hobby/interest of mine. If anything it makes me question it more when every article contradicts the other. I guess my thoughts are that there isn't much of a "trend" and there are just a bunch of individuals and every single one handles things a bit differently.


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Actually there is a very obvious trend in this "Giganomics" economy. Its called lower wages. "The race to the bottom".

Wages have been flat for decades and they are now actually falling again for middle-class earners.

So the low savings rate for the average American should not be a surprise if you have your eyes open.

The sad trend is still that millennials are renters or they are still living in mom and dads basement.

It appears that this low wage economy is just acceptable now as corporate America parks trillions of dollars offshore to evade taxation.

Thats trillions of dollars not being reinvested in the American workforce.
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Old 10-10-2015, 07:47 PM   #33
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Actually there is a very obvious trend in this "Giganomics" economy. Its called lower wages. "The race to the bottom". ...
If you take a world view, I don't think you will see any 'race to the bottom'. Many people in 3rd world countries are doing better by making products for 1st world countries.

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Wages have been flat for decades and they are now actually falling again for middle-class earners.

So the low savings rate for the average American should not be a surprise if you have your eyes open.
And raising wages/savings for the people who need it most. My heart goes out for someone in deep poverty, that can now afford basic care for their family, over someone in the 1st world, who is moaning because they can't afford their premium cable channels.



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The sad trend is still that millennials are renters or they are still living in mom and dads basement.
Maybe you should meet the millennials I know, who went to school, gained a degree in an in-demand field, and are doing well.


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It appears that this low wage economy is just acceptable now as corporate America parks trillions of dollars offshore to evade taxation.
Maybe the tax laws need to change?

Quote:
Thats trillions of dollars not being reinvested in the American workforce.
Investors look for ROI. Maybe we need to change if we want to attract investment dollars? Who wants to invest in anyone with an 'entitlement' attitude?

-ERD50
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Old 10-10-2015, 08:00 PM   #34
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My wife just read me this with a big "wow". No surprise to me or others here. I said, they must have married the wrong guy. She said yeah, thanks hun!
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Old 10-10-2015, 08:06 PM   #35
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Georgialivin - don't worry about what other people may or not be doing. What's important is what your goals are, and whether you're doing what you need to in order to achieve those goals. Everything else, as they say, is just noise.
It isn't just noise. Unfortunately, the poor planning for retirement of other people can lead to governments diverting resources away from your retirement to fund the poor planners. It happens, has happened already in some areas.
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Old 10-10-2015, 10:21 PM   #36
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I don't think people are just moaning about not being able to afford premium channels. I agree that the middle class is slowly dying, mainly because of corporate greed. And they do need better laws to keep them from tax evasion, but change is hard to come by when we hardly live in a democracy anymore. Instead, elitist simply use their money and mold laws to help themselves.


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Old 10-10-2015, 10:25 PM   #37
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Too off topic? Maybe so. I just go back to what I said before, I know individuals. I have friends that are doing well out of college- in demand- etc. I also know the opposite, friends that can't afford their health insurance, can't afford to get hurt, can't miss work because their benefits are pitiful. One wrong move is all it takes. So I just wonder how much of it is circumstance, but I do feel you can help yourself also. I realize I am conflicting with my own thoughts here, but unfortunately for you all- I do tend to ramble.




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Old 10-10-2015, 10:27 PM   #38
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I guess my question is, if you remove these factors (yes these giant life factors) I wonder how much people my age strive to save. Do they care about saving at all? First article says yes, second says no. So again, it just makes me curious


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Old 10-10-2015, 10:34 PM   #39
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If you take a world view, I don't think you will see any 'race to the bottom'. Many people in 3rd world countries are doing better by making products for 1st world countries.



And raising wages/savings for the people who need it most. My heart goes out for someone in deep poverty, that can now afford basic care for their family, over someone in the 1st world, who is moaning because they can't afford their premium cable channels.





Maybe you should meet the millennials I know, who went to school, gained a degree in an in-demand field, and are doing well.




Maybe the tax laws need to change?



Investors look for ROI. Maybe we need to change if we want to attract investment dollars? Who wants to invest in anyone with an 'entitlement' attitude?

-ERD50
Obviously I am talking about millennials in America. Not 10 year olds making soccer balls or a Chinese factory worker making an iPhone or a teenager making nike shoes.

Income inequality in America is now a real problem. Its Not about cable or buying a cell phone. That argument is dead and no longer relevant.

Good for you! You know some millennials that are making bank. Unfortunately more college grad millennials are not even making a living wage and they live in mom and dad's basement between their shifts at Starbucks and Target.

So its ok for corporate America and wealthy individuals to have an "entitlement attitude" when it comes to offshore tax-havens, but God forbid an American worker expects a living wage from corporations that make billions in profits and have trillions offshore evading taxes. See, it goes both ways with the "entitlement attitude".
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Old 10-10-2015, 10:49 PM   #40
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Obviously I am talking about millennials in America. ...
Yes, that was obvious to me.

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Good for you! You know some millennials that are making bank. Unfortunately more college grad millennials are not even making a living wage and they live in mom and dad's basement between their shifts at Starbucks and Target.
And did the millennials you are talking about pursue an in-demand degree? If not, what should they expect? I should just buy their 'product', even if I don't need/want it? I bet you don't do that either.


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So its ok for corporate America and wealthy individuals to have an "entitlement attitude" when it comes to offshore tax-havens, but God forbid an American worker expects a living wage from corporations that make billions in profits and have trillions offshore evading taxes. See, it goes both ways with the "entitlement attitude".
No, it doesn't go both ways. If other countries offer a better tax plan, you can bet they are going to pursue it. Are you going to tell me you don't take the tax deductions and credits that you are allowed? That's what I mean by fixing the tax code - make it competitive. That has nothing to do with 'entitlement', it's just playing by the rules.

Corporations don't 'expect a living wage' - they have to earn it. Plenty of companies go out of business when their product is not in demand at a price that they can profit from. It should be the same with workers - either have a skill set that someone wants to pay for, or adapt. It's pretty simple.

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