Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 10-11-2015, 03:14 PM   #61
Moderator
ziggy29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 15,613
Quote:
Originally Posted by youbet View Post
Yeah. Savings vs savings acct is key. I don't have a kilobuck in a savings acct but am comfortably FIRED for over nine years now.
That's the thing. There are a lot of things that can be "savings" (or equivalent) rather than a traditional savings account in a financial institution. They can also be some of these, perhaps among others:

* Money market mutual funds (in taxable accounts)
* Savings bonds mature enough to be redeemed without penalty or restrictions
* Asset management accounts (which are really checking on steroids)
* Arguably, some CDs with low early withdrawal penalties

We do have some money in savings accounts, but it represents only about half of what we "have in savings" overall. (Some of that is I-bonds with a 3.4% fixed rate; no way in Hell I redeem those before I have to in 2030.) That said, it makes you wonder about the question. It may be misleading as someone who has (say) $100K overall in the vehicles I list above but less than $1000 in traditional passbook savings may be included here. As could someone with no "savings" as usually defined but has (say) $2 million in liquid investments.
__________________

__________________
"Hey, for every ten dollars, that's another hour that I have to be in the work place. That's an hour of my life. And my life is a very finite thing. I have only 'x' number of hours left before I'm dead. So how do I want to use these hours of my life? Do I want to use them just spending it on more crap and more stuff, or do I want to start getting a handle on it and using my life more intelligently?" -- Joe Dominguez (1938 - 1997)

RIP to Reemy, my avatar dog (2003 - 9/16/2017)
ziggy29 is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 10-11-2015, 03:16 PM   #62
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by rayinpenn View Post
IMHO Saving money isn't about evil corporations or immigration it is about LBYM and thinking long term. I call it brown bagging your life and the constant battle against SHINY RED PICKUP SYNDROME. Oh I've got it but the Mrs helped me see the light years ago. Now I'm sure you can probably write this list better then I.

1. Buy a new shiny red pickup or buy a three year old ugly green Toyota (I called her Betsy - god she was reliable)
2. Buy a budget stretching big house or a modest affordable cape cod (the upstairs was unfinished when we bought her)
3. Call the plumber, painter or lawn guy (god I love my used John Deere and the Mrs is an awesome painter) I love tools
4. Basic cable or the sports package I must admit no HBO but I am a geek for mountain men and the assorted Alaska shows..
5. Shop with coupons and look for sales (I never have the same cup of coffee week to week)
6. State College or private university. SUNY for me, State College for the daughter.
7. Ten thousand thermoses filled with cream of mushroom and a sandwich or eating out.
8. Some new toys with the bonus, tax return, inheritance, OT ....or some dividend stocks or ETFs.
9. Friday night pizza in or dinner and drinks out. (Did I ever tell you about the first time I spent more hen $20 on Chinese food.. The Mrs made a scene)
10 save first and spend the rest or spend and maybe save something
11 new heels or new shoes.. I actually met someone who didn't realize you can shine your shoes... "My husband will be happy because now I don't have to buy new ones..." Sweet Moses!
12. Not take advantage of a 401k match... Never leave money on the table...ever.
13. KEEP A BALANCE ON YOUR CREDIT CARDS .. oh brother don't get me started. The average person who carries a balance carries $15k - yikes that's what $ 3k in interest a year. Kill the debt and just save the interest for 30 years put it into ETFs and bam you'll have a big pile.

Obviously our list won't work for everyone - particularly if you have a very low salary. However I can't tell you how many people I've met that are clueless when it comes to spending/saving money. But for many people follow the above list and retirement will be as easy as not going to work.

Ps I still like cream of mushroom...


Sent from my iPad using Early Retirement Forum.
LBYM is definitely the key to build wealth.

But it takes real income to do it. Unfortunately college degree millennials are not going to build real wealth as their low wages continue to remain flat or drop.

Or Just ask a unemployed 50 year old about the job market. Its a joke.

So savings rates for the AVG. American will remain low.

Its all about wages.
__________________

__________________
purplesky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2015, 03:19 PM   #63
Moderator
ziggy29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 15,613
Quote:
Originally Posted by purplesky View Post
LBYM is definitely the key to build wealth.

But it takes real income to do it. Unfortunately college degree millennials are not going to build real wealth as their low wages continue to remain flat or drop.

Or Just ask a unemployed 50 year old about the job market. Its a joke.

So savings rates for the AVG. American will remain low.

Its all about wages.
Some fair points here. It's easy to have went to college 30-40 years ago, "make it" in the 1960s to 1990s economy and be an economic success today -- and criticize younger folks today for not being able to do the same. But many of the rules have changed. Some haven't, but a lot of them have. It's harder to LBYM when the last 10-20 years have really squeezed the "M" for many folks, even if they have worked hard and made the right choices.

I went to a state university from 1983-1988. When I started, the tuition was $295 per semester and when I graduated, it was still only about $700. As a result my part-time job in college was more than enough to pay for college and allowed me to not only graduate with no debt, but also with about $15K in the bank. Today's college grads can't get anywhere near that deal.
__________________
"Hey, for every ten dollars, that's another hour that I have to be in the work place. That's an hour of my life. And my life is a very finite thing. I have only 'x' number of hours left before I'm dead. So how do I want to use these hours of my life? Do I want to use them just spending it on more crap and more stuff, or do I want to start getting a handle on it and using my life more intelligently?" -- Joe Dominguez (1938 - 1997)

RIP to Reemy, my avatar dog (2003 - 9/16/2017)
ziggy29 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2015, 03:39 PM   #64
Moderator Emeritus
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,929
Quote:
Originally Posted by ziggy29 View Post
Some fair points here. It's easy to have went to college 30-40 years ago, "make it" in the 1960s to 1990s economy and be an economic success today -- and criticize younger folks today for not being able to do the same. But many of the rules have changed. Some haven't, but a lot of them have. It's harder to LBYM when the last 10-20 years have really squeezed the "M" for many folks, even if they have worked hard and made the right choices.

I went to a state university from 1983-1988. When I started, the tuition was $295 per semester and when I graduated, it was still only about $700. As a result my part-time job in college was more than enough to pay for college and allowed me to not only graduate with no debt, but also with about $15K in the bank. Today's college grads can't get anywhere near that deal.
Yup. I was in college in the early-mid 1970s. Tuition, books and lab fees came to around $700 a year at the local state college. I could pay for that pretty easily from part time work while enrolled at a 'full load', including working as a photographer and for a little extra cash, an early morning part time gig as a 'building maintenance technician' 2-3 hours a day (change light bulbs, air filters, wash and touch up walls, plunge toilets, etc).

The current annual cost at the same school is about $10,000 a year. To cover that plus food and housing would require a full time job at or a bit above minimum wage. It's pretty hard to carry a 'full load', particularly in the sciences or engineering, AND hold a full time job. There just aren't enough hours in a week.

The situation has changed. Our geezer experiences and solutions do not map well onto the current situation.
__________________
M Paquette is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2015, 03:52 PM   #65
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern IL
Posts: 18,294
Quote:
Originally Posted by ziggy29 View Post
Some fair points here. It's easy to have went to college 30-40 years ago, "make it" in the 1960s to 1990s economy and be an economic success today ...
Was it 'easy'? Many people didn't do so well. There was rampant inflation in the 80's, Japan was going to take over the world, etc.

It may have been 'easier' than today, hard to compare, different times, etc.


Quote:
-- and criticize younger folks today for not being able to do the same.
I'm not sure anyone is 'criticizing' younger folks today for not being able to do the same. My point was that many seem to be doing just fine. As you say...

Quote:
But many of the rules have changed. Some haven't, but a lot of them have.
Tuition has definitely increased faster than inflation. That does make it tougher for a lot of people, no doubt. But many (not all of course) are getting tuition covered to some extent by parents and/or grandparents, so those previous good times are benefiting some of them.

It's too far off topic, but one has to wonder just how it came to be that College tuition has outpaced inflation so much?

-ERD50
__________________
ERD50 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2015, 04:31 PM   #66
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 903
Maybe it's just me but I'm seeing a lot of what used to be "in-demand" degree jobs being moved offshore - IT, programming, engineering, accounting, etc. Basically the "brain" jobs. It's going to be hard for new grads to compete with folks living overseas with 1/4th or lower cost of living compared to the US.

Nursing used to be pretty in demand but one of my relatives (head nurse) say that nowadays, for every opening they have, there are usually 50-100 applicants. Thankfully, doctors with specializations seem to still be pretty in demand.

If I had just graduated from high school now, I'll probably go for medicine or electrical engineering (power distribution systems). That or skilled labor - electrician, plumbing, etc. Basically stuff that's difficult to offshore.
__________________
hnzw_rui is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2015, 04:44 PM   #67
Moderator
Walt34's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Eastern WV Panhandle
Posts: 16,579
Quote:
Originally Posted by hnzw_rui View Post
Nursing used to be pretty in demand but one of my relatives (head nurse) say that nowadays, for every opening they have, there are usually 50-100 applicants. Thankfully, doctors with specializations seem to still be pretty in demand.
Perhaps that's dependent on the area? I see lots of ads for nurses but I'd also think WV isn't the most popular area for a recent college grad. That might be why.

When I was in the hospital last year I asked a couple of nurses about that and they said the barrier for a new nursing grad was getting specific certifications that can cost the hospital $60-$70k so they only hire experienced nurses unless they have no choice.
__________________
I heard the call to do nothing. So I answered it.
Walt34 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2015, 05:18 PM   #68
Moderator
ziggy29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 15,613
Quote:
Originally Posted by Walt34 View Post
Perhaps that's dependent on the area? I see lots of ads for nurses but I'd also think WV isn't the most popular area for a recent college grad. That might be why.
Could be. Maybe it's more of a problem in rural areas, but around here the hospitals are *always* hiring nurses. Of course, maybe not all of them are hiring nurses without sufficient experience.
__________________
"Hey, for every ten dollars, that's another hour that I have to be in the work place. That's an hour of my life. And my life is a very finite thing. I have only 'x' number of hours left before I'm dead. So how do I want to use these hours of my life? Do I want to use them just spending it on more crap and more stuff, or do I want to start getting a handle on it and using my life more intelligently?" -- Joe Dominguez (1938 - 1997)

RIP to Reemy, my avatar dog (2003 - 9/16/2017)
ziggy29 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2015, 06:51 PM   #69
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,035
Quote:
Originally Posted by purplesky View Post
Obviously I am talking about millennials in America. Not 10 year olds making soccer balls or a Chinese factory worker making an iPhone or a teenager making nike shoes.



Income inequality in America is now a real problem. Its Not about cable or buying a cell phone. That argument is dead and no longer relevant.



Good for you! You know some millennials that are making bank. Unfortunately more college grad millennials are not even making a living wage and they live in mom and dad's basement between their shifts at Starbucks and Target.



So its ok for corporate America and wealthy individuals to have an "entitlement attitude" when it comes to offshore tax-havens, but God forbid an American worker expects a living wage from corporations that make billions in profits and have trillions offshore evading taxes. See, it goes both ways with the "entitlement attitude".

There has never been a strong causation effect behind a degree and earnings. Earnings are tied to basic intelligence and work ethic. It's a subtle deceit that "college graduates" earn more.


Sent from my iPhone using Early Retirement Forum
__________________
dallas27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2015, 08:12 PM   #70
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Mulligan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 7,384
I am in my early 50s been retired for over 5 years and have saved more money since retirement than I did all of my working year combined.....Strip me of my pension and I am not nearly as smart as I think I was....Yes the pension bailed me out... If I could do it all over again I would have been smarter with my money. And fortunately for me, as long as my pension is good my mistakes wont matter.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
__________________
Mulligan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2015, 08:34 PM   #71
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 7,409
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpeirce View Post
Their question was “How much money do you have saved in your savings account?”

I'd answer: $0

It's been a long time since I've had a "savings account"


heh heh heh -
__________________
unclemick is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2015, 08:43 PM   #72
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Mulligan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 7,384
Quote:
Originally Posted by unclemick View Post




heh heh heh -

I must confess... I have a true "passbook savings account" unlinked to my checking account. $5,000 dollars plus, touched over the past decade or so. Its like my "break in case of emergency" money. I don't really pay any attention to it but its there if I need it. Or at least I assume its still there as I have not checked in quite a while.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
__________________
Mulligan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2015, 08:59 PM   #73
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
NW-Bound's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 19,444
I still have about 9% of investable assets in I-bond accounts. Those are my savings.

The interest they pay is so puny, I may have to draw it all out, take a tax hit, and do the SPY+option call strategy to get 4 to 5% a year. I can't stand this low interest anymore!
__________________
"Old age is the most unexpected of all things that can happen to a man" -- Leon Trotsky
NW-Bound is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2015, 09:03 PM   #74
Moderator
ziggy29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 15,613
Quote:
Originally Posted by ERD50 View Post
Was it 'easy'? Many people didn't do so well. There was rampant inflation in the 80's, Japan was going to take over the world, etc.
I didn't say it was "easy" to get through it then, just that it's easy to say that if "we" (being 20, 30 or more years older) were able to do it, there's no reason other than laziness or "bad decisions" why today's young adults can't do it just as easily.
__________________
"Hey, for every ten dollars, that's another hour that I have to be in the work place. That's an hour of my life. And my life is a very finite thing. I have only 'x' number of hours left before I'm dead. So how do I want to use these hours of my life? Do I want to use them just spending it on more crap and more stuff, or do I want to start getting a handle on it and using my life more intelligently?" -- Joe Dominguez (1938 - 1997)

RIP to Reemy, my avatar dog (2003 - 9/16/2017)
ziggy29 is offline   Reply With Quote
Most Americans have less than $1000 in savings?
Old 10-11-2015, 09:27 PM   #75
Full time employment: Posting here.
Al in Ohio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Columbus OH
Posts: 688
Most Americans have less than $1000 in savings?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dallas27 View Post
There has never been a strong causation effect behind a degree and earnings. Earnings are tied to basic intelligence and work ethic. It's a subtle deceit that "college graduates" earn more.


Sent from my iPhone using Early Retirement Forum

In specific instances some non degreed earners do comparably well, but on average a college degree has proven to earn signifigantly more lifetime earnings. It's not subtle. Labor statistics have been recorded for decades to prove it and these statistics are quoted often in articles and buisness journals. You should read more. (Less tv will help)

Edit. On average it is over 70% more lifetime earnings.

https://www.census.gov/prod/2002pubs/p23-210.pdf




Sent from my iPhone using Early Retirement Forum
__________________
Ohio INTJ ENG ER Hopeful
Al in Ohio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2015, 09:30 PM   #76
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Mulligan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 7,384
Quote:
Originally Posted by NW-Bound View Post
I still have about 9% of investable assets in I-bond accounts. Those are my savings.

The interest they pay is so puny, I may have to draw it all out, take a tax hit, and do the SPY+option call strategy to get 4 to 5% a year. I can't stand this low interest anymore!

I thought my IBonds were my "secret sauce" when inflation kicked up. Last year I gave up on fighting the 1980s battle and cashed them all in for preferred stock. Of course I didn't have those 3% fixed rate ones either.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
__________________
Mulligan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2015, 09:58 PM   #77
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
MooreBonds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 2,091
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mulligan View Post
I thought my IBonds were my "secret sauce" when inflation kicked up. Last year I gave up on fighting the 1980s battle and cashed them all in for preferred stock. Of course I didn't have those 3% fixed rate ones either.
I have about 4% of my net worth in I Bonds with an average fixed rate of 3.3%. Never thought I'd see the day when the composite rate would be almost equal to the fixed! But I'll still keep them stashed away as my ultimate emergency fund.

I was very tempted to cash them in and go all-in back in early 2009 and took a lot of willpower to not do it (especially since back then they were worth roughly 15% of portfolio at the March 2009 low equity values with everything else in the crapper).

In hindsight, obviously I wish I had. But the decent fixed rate is a small consolation for the missed capital gains. And good to know you have a nice stash that could last a few years on minimal budget in case things really got ugly from any cause.
__________________
Dryer sheets Schmyer sheets
MooreBonds is offline   Reply With Quote
Most Americans have less than $1000 in savings?
Old 10-11-2015, 10:12 PM   #78
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Mulligan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 7,384
Most Americans have less than $1000 in savings?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MooreBonds View Post
I have about 4% of my net worth in I Bonds with an average fixed rate of 3.3%. Never thought I'd see the day when the composite rate would be almost equal to the fixed! But I'll still keep them stashed away as my ultimate emergency fund.

I was very tempted to cash them in and go all-in back in early 2009 and took a lot of willpower to not do it (especially since back then they were worth roughly 15% of portfolio at the March 2009 low equity values with everything else in the crapper).

In hindsight, obviously I wish I had. But the decent fixed rate is a small consolation for the missed capital gains. And good to know you have a nice stash that could last a few years on minimal budget in case things really got ugly from any cause.

I dont see how you can ever be criticized for keeping those. Always nice to have those as an ace in the hole. I sure would have kept mine if I had that fixed rate. The only thing I can see that you should beat yourself up over was not buying them with a credit card when it was allowed and you got the credit card "cash back" for buying them.
The two biggest rackets I ever missed out on. 1) Buying 3% IBonds with credit cards 2) Buying free postal delievered dollar coins from treasury with credit card, then immediately dumping them off on the bank.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
__________________
Mulligan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2015, 10:21 PM   #79
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
MooreBonds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 2,091
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mulligan View Post
The only thing I can see that you should beat yourself up over was not buying them with a credit card when it was allowed and you got the credit card "cash back" for buying them.
The two biggest rackets I ever missed out on. 1) Buying 3% IBonds with credit cards 2) Buying free postal delievered dollar coins from treasury with credit card, then immediately dumping them off on the bank.
LOL - while I didn't get in on the "ordering rolls of coins on reward credit cards", I sure did do the 'buying I-bonds on credit cards"! USAir rewards miles paid for a free flight to NY for a Mediterranean cruise with my grandmother, sister and BIL.
__________________
Dryer sheets Schmyer sheets
MooreBonds is offline   Reply With Quote
Most Americans have less than $1000 in savings?
Old 10-11-2015, 10:24 PM   #80
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,035
Most Americans have less than $1000 in savings?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Al in Ohio View Post
In specific instances some non degreed earners do comparably well, but on average a college degree has proven to earn signifigantly more lifetime earnings. It's not subtle. Labor statistics have been recorded for decades to prove it and these statistics are quoted often in articles and buisness journals. You should read more. (Less tv will help)

Edit. On average it is over 70% more lifetime earnings.

https://www.census.gov/prod/2002pubs/p23-210.pdf




Sent from my iPhone using Early Retirement Forum

No, it is correlated, not causal. Nice try on the insult. You don't understand the statistics you are quoting and why they are misleading. May I suggest you read deeper, then think critically.




Sent from my iPhone using Early Retirement Forum
__________________

__________________
dallas27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Retirement: A third have less than $1,000 put away Ready FIRE and Money 28 03-20-2014 07:25 AM
34% of Americans Have No Retirement Savings mickeyd FIRE and Money 25 02-06-2011 05:23 PM
Less is more; Living in less than 1,000 sq ft Frugalityisthenewblack Other topics 43 09-25-2010 02:52 AM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:53 PM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.