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Old 01-13-2008, 04:07 AM   #21
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Problem with a crossover is that what I want is basically a car but with more cargo space and flexibility. Crossovers are basically SUVs with some compromises made to somewhat improve fuel economy, ride, etc., but its still not basically a car. I don't want to ride high up; I want something that drives like a car, has low rollover risk, and doesn't feel like a barge. Already got a minivan, don't need another.

i have a bmw x3 which is as close to a car feel as you can get. its basically the 3 series with a larger body. i owned quite a few hardcore 4x4's thru the years and although this is not an off road vehicle the all wheel drive system is the best i ever owned making it the perfect bad weather car
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My thoughts on this...
Old 01-13-2008, 05:35 AM   #22
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My thoughts on this...

I'm still going to be "pro-American" on this subject.

Regardless of the "bad press" on American made (e.g. the company is American, vs. only building them here) I'll continue to buy American.

Why? Simply because I don't want to send my $$$ (regardless of it's "value") to a foreign country. Even if the vehicle is built here, it's true that the worker gets income (to be spent in the U.S.) but the profit on a new vehicle still goes back to the foreign company (the dealer, regardless of where they are located, buys the vehicle from the "factory" - that's where the initial profit is made).

Using a "reverse example", Volvo is a brand that is basically manufactured in Europe (Brussels/Gothenberg, depending on model), but the company is currently owned by Ford. Initial (manufacturing) profits from the original sales of these cars go back to the "mother country" (e.g. U.S.) If you buy a Honda or BMW, and it's manufactured in the U.S. the profit on the new vehicle is returned to the company/country of orgin (Germany/Japan).

Maybe I'm just being "old fashoned", but that's the way I see it. Anyway, my last car (GM) I had on the road for 18 years before I traded it. Not because it stopped running, but I did want a model with at least one air bag (safety).

On a re-sale/used car, it dosen't make a difference on the model (I hear Honda's make good used cars); the "profit" is held within the buyer/seller (U.S.) I'm just looking at the orignal profit and impact to my country of birth.

- Ron
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Old 01-13-2008, 05:54 AM   #23
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alot of those profits you hate to see foreign countries get are whats propping up our stock and bond markets but alas that dosnt make good political news

i only buy forieign products for one reason, it may represent the best value and superior product to me , i dont buy it because the emperor of japan promises to come to where i work and buy something from where i work . each country now excells pretty much at something else, its a world class market and i think anyone who only buys because of political, geographical or ethnic reasons does themselves and this country more harm then good.

just imagine if we never bought those high quality early japanese cars here. our auto companies would have still turned out those crappy inferior american cars never being forced to turn out a better product.

im as pro america as the next guy but i want the best value and superior products from wherever they may come from
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Old 01-13-2008, 06:46 AM   #24
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SUV = a rough ride and poor gas mileage. Boy the american madison ave types sure did a great job snowing so many people in purchasing one of these things. Genius. Put a bow around a huge vehicle that gives women what they want some BIG THINGY that they lack from their significant other!
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Old 01-13-2008, 07:57 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by rs0460a View Post
Using a "reverse example", Volvo is a brand that is basically manufactured in Europe (Brussels/Gothenberg, depending on model), but the company is currently owned by Ford. Initial (manufacturing) profits from the original sales of these cars go back to the "mother country" (e.g. U.S.) If you buy a Honda or BMW, and it's manufactured in the U.S. the profit on the new vehicle is returned to the company/country of orgin (Germany/Japan).

- Ron
Sorry Ron, but I bet that all the profit on Volvo stays overseas.... it costs a lot to repatriate these profits which is why they buy other stuff over there.. and... what profit on a Volvo? (just had to throw that in )

I see you were in Vietnam... good for you and thanks.... but it sounds like my BIL late dad who was in WWII... he had bought a Mitusbishi TV... his dad was mad... said 'we shot those things down in the war'.... like the company that made the planes were the ones who shot at them...

I had a crap Ford... and they knew it was crap and did not tell anyone... but lost a lawsuit 10 or more years later... I could have gotten a $500 voucher to purchase a NEW FORD!!! So, if I buy crap, and you lose a lawsuit you want me to buy more crap? NOT ME... now, maybe they are a lot better today.... but Ford is off my list for a new car (even though I am buying a used Explorer from my sister)....

None of the GMs are that great except the new CUVs that are BIG... and they have decided to limit the production to keep the price up... no thanks...
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Old 01-13-2008, 08:38 AM   #26
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Never having owned a Toyota or Honda my two worst cars have been foreign. The worst due to huge repair bills is the 2001 Hyundai Accent sitting in my drive way with less than 100,000 miles. Next, for the same reason was a 1990 Jetta diesel.

Observations of firends and neighbors who owned Toyotas and Hondas are that they were good cars but not exceptional and were some times very expensive to fix .

My best car in recent history based on total operating cost per mile was my 1995 Lumina. Sold at 200 K when I got the Hyundai to save money on gas. Big mistake.

I also have a 1998 four door explorer that I bought a year ago for hauling stuff and my trailer. It is actually cheaper to run than the Hyundai due to the (so far anyway) low maintenance costs.

OH by the way my father had an interesting viewpoint that insults and yelling were the second to last refuge of the incompetent. The last refuge of the incompetent was when they took a swing at you.

Bruce
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Old 01-13-2008, 08:40 AM   #27
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"stinko"



If they could just get rid of the UAW they would really be better off.
I generally don’t defend unions, however in this case I must. What the unions won was given to them by a weak and spineless management that wanted to preserve profits and bonuses while giving the company away.

Uncontrolled private sector labor unions will keep feeding until the host dies. With government unions the host never dies it just raises taxes .
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Old 01-13-2008, 09:04 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by brewer12345 View Post
Problem with a crossover is that what I want is basically a car but with more cargo space and flexibility. Crossovers are basically SUVs with some compromises made to somewhat improve fuel economy, ride, etc., but its still not basically a car. I don't want to ride high up; I want something that drives like a car, has low rollover risk, and doesn't feel like a barge. Already got a minivan, don't need another.
Too bad hatchbacks and station wagons don't seem to be popular any more. I do not want to ride high or drive a truck, either. When I buy my next vehicle, I may testdrive a Highlander and Rav 4. Maybe they aren't as much like trucks as I think. Then I'll probably buy another Solara.

Have you looked at the Honda Fit? A friend of mine has one and she says the flexibility and cargo space are mind-boggling, not to mention the gas mileage.
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Old 01-13-2008, 09:24 AM   #29
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With government unions the host never dies it just raises taxes .
Apologies for interjecting religion, but Amen!
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Old 01-13-2008, 10:01 AM   #30
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worst car i ever owned was my 1987 volvo 740. only thing not replaced in 9 years of ownership was the glove compartment door.

best car is my current bmw followed by all the nissans i owned over the last 20 years
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Old 01-13-2008, 10:25 AM   #31
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If they could just get rid of the UAW they would really be better off.
Well, maybe. The unions were necessary and sometimes still are, but they can be given to excess just like management.

I was in a union that was formed during the inflationary period of the late '70's-early '80's. Inflation was running 15% or so and we were getting raises of 2 - 3%. Private industry raises were 10% or more per year. Governmental stinginess ultimately cost them much more in the long run. My retirement benefits are much better than they would have been without a union, and safety issues at work were better because of union efforts.

Everybody wants highly motivated, educated, honest, reliable people but they don't want to pay for them. "You get what you pay for" in people as well as products.
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Old 01-13-2008, 10:33 AM   #32
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worst car i ever owned was my 1987 volvo 740. only thing not replaced in 9 years of ownership was the glove compartment door.

best car is my current bmw followed by all the nissans i owned over the last 20 years
That's when Volvo (car) was owned by Volvo AB. Since 2000, it's been owned by Ford (US). Volvo AB owns the "big rigs", including Volvo and (guess what!) Mack, along with Renault trucks in Europe.

BTW, Nissan's largest foreign holder is Renault Car (not to be confused with Renault Truck (owned by Volvo AB). That's why you are seeing a French design influance in some of Nissan (and Nissan's "preimum brand" aka Infinity) models (like the Murano) in the car arena.

Don't want to upset you, but maybe some of your "success" with recent Nissan's was the influence of the French?

- Ron
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Old 01-13-2008, 10:55 AM   #33
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Too bad hatchbacks and station wagons don't seem to be popular any more. I do not want to ride high or drive a truck, either. When I buy my next vehicle, I may testdrive a Highlander and Rav 4. Maybe they aren't as much like trucks as I think. Then I'll probably buy another Solara.

Have you looked at the Honda Fit? A friend of mine has one and she says the flexibility and cargo space are mind-boggling, not to mention the gas mileage.
Take a look at the station wagons that are on the market: Subaru, Jetta, Kia Rondo, Mazda 5, etc. Might or might not be better choice than an SUV.

As for the Fit, no thanks. With all the monster SUVs on the road, Anything I drive needs to be north of 3000 pounds and have a verygood record for safety.
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Old 01-13-2008, 01:15 PM   #34
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Well, I actually read the article.

.
That is very unfair!
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Old 01-14-2008, 08:38 AM   #35
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[quote=saluki9;600193
(full Disclosure) - Before FinanceDude calls me on it, yes I do drive a BMW. But I am still impressed with what we're starting to turn out here.[/quote]

Hey, it's a FREE car, right? So you don't pay for the high maintenance anyways. Besides, you have a S2000,so that makes you a total import guy anyways..........
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Old 01-14-2008, 08:40 AM   #36
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Newguy, is there anything you like about America? One negative thread after another, why not move to the middle east.
Wow, Carguy, you're after it today!!
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Old 01-14-2008, 08:43 AM   #37
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On top of that Newguy, have you ever thought of actually contributing something to the forum instead of just trolling?
I think he's permanently a "glass half empty" kind of guy. Funny, I keep hearing on the one hand how the country is going to heck, and on the other hand we can't keep all the people out who think we are the "land of opportunity"...............
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Old 01-14-2008, 08:44 AM   #38
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Take a look at the station wagons that are on the market: Subaru, Jetta, Kia Rondo, Mazda 5, etc. Might or might not be better choice than an SUV.

As for the Fit, no thanks. With all the monster SUVs on the road, Anything I drive needs to be north of 3000 pounds and have a verygood record for safety.
I'll look at those station wagons.

I won't get a Fit either, for the same reasons you cite. My friend drives hers to other states frequently, but that seems kind of scary to me.
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Old 01-14-2008, 08:49 AM   #39
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I'm still going to be "pro-American" on this subject.

Regardless of the "bad press" on American made (e.g. the company is American, vs. only building them here) I'll continue to buy American.

Why? Simply because I don't want to send my $$$ (regardless of it's "value") to a foreign country. Even if the vehicle is built here, it's true that the worker gets income (to be spent in the U.S.) but the profit on a new vehicle still goes back to the foreign company (the dealer, regardless of where they are located, buys the vehicle from the "factory" - that's where the initial profit is made).

Using a "reverse example", Volvo is a brand that is basically manufactured in Europe (Brussels/Gothenberg, depending on model), but the company is currently owned by Ford. Initial (manufacturing) profits from the original sales of these cars go back to the "mother country" (e.g. U.S.) If you buy a Honda or BMW, and it's manufactured in the U.S. the profit on the new vehicle is returned to the company/country of orgin (Germany/Japan).

Maybe I'm just being "old fashoned", but that's the way I see it. Anyway, my last car (GM) I had on the road for 18 years before I traded it. Not because it stopped running, but I did want a model with at least one air bag (safety).

On a re-sale/used car, it dosen't make a difference on the model (I hear Honda's make good used cars); the "profit" is held within the buyer/seller (U.S.) I'm just looking at the orignal profit and impact to my country of birth.
- Ron
There are plenty of folks left like you in the USA. My dad is the same way, he's been buying Dodge pickups for years, and Internationals before then, even an AMC and a couple Ford station wagons.

As for me, I bought FIVE NEW GM products over a 20 year time frame, and now I own two used Hondas. "Goodwill" is something GM has never embraced, I hope that is changing.

I'll go along that the Saturn Aura and perhaps the Chevy Malibu are improved, along with the Fusion and the Milan. However, until I see some stellar 5 year reliability results, I'll keep my Hondas.

I don't use any credit cards, but there is a $2000 rebate towards a new GM car sitting in my account............

The Buick Enclave is a sweet looking ride.......
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Old 01-14-2008, 09:09 AM   #40
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SUV = Put a bow around a huge vehicle that gives women what they want some BIG THINGY that they lack from their significant other!

Gee Newguy,
Just because your SO wants a BIG THINGY and can't seem to find one does not mean you have to get all sensitive about it and attack the poor car industry....

2fer
(Who has observed more men driving BIG 4WD THINGY's than women)
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